7mm The Derby Line - Rolling Stock

[P A D]

Hi Tony,
The oil pots in the kit are way too large as they come and I spent a long time filing them down to remove some of their bulk. It won't be fun redoing them with the tanks in place, so good luck with that. Will you be screwing the boiler on or soldering it? I wondered if there was much benefit at the painting stage in having it detatchable, but I was speaking to Warren after I'd done it and he reckoned that with the boiler fixed it is difficult to spray the inside of the tanks and you can then see a shadow through the gap.

You mentioned earlier that the locating holes for the boiler/firebox were wrongly aligned and you had to elongate the firebox one to move the boiler up. I found that on mine and on the Gladiator F11 as well as on the Javelin Black 5. Seems to be a common error but easy to overcome.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[dibateg]

Hello Peter -
Hmm, can I live with them? I shall have to decide.... I could take them off with the torch and start again from the bottom up in stages...

I'm still undecided over the boiler, it depends how I get on with the tank stays..

Onwards and upwards!

Regards
Tony

 

[P A D]

Hi Tony,
Check out the position of the right rear tank stay. I think it coincides with a washout plug so you may want to reposition slightly.
Cheers,
Peter

 

[Deano747]

Hi Tony,
The oil pots in the kit are way too large as they come and I spent a long time filing them down to remove some of their bulk. It won't be fun redoing them with the tanks in place, so good luck with that. Will you be screwing the boiler on or soldering it? I wondered if there was much benefit at the painting stage in having it detatchable, but I was speaking to Warren after I'd done it and he reckoned that with the boiler fixed it is difficult to spray the inside of the tanks and you can then see a shadow through the gap.

You mentioned earlier that the locating holes for the boiler/firebox were wrongly aligned and you had to elongate the firebox one to move the boiler up. I found that on mine and on the Gladiator F11 as well as on the Javelin Black 5. Seems to be a common error but easy to overcome.

Cheers,
Peter

Hi Peter/ Tony

All being carefully noted as I too have a DA Stanier and a Javelin Black 5 to build (One day!!)

Keep up the excellent work, both of you.

Regards
Deano.

 

[P A D]

Hi Deano,
The Javelin Black 5 also needed some adjustment of the boiler rear and front faces to get the smokebox to sit down correctly, so watch out for that. I wrote up the build on RMW if you want to look it up. Not sure if I mentioned the boiler issue but in the main it builds up nicely.
Sorry for the digression Tony.
Cheers,
Perer

 

[dibateg]

No problem Peter - any discussion is most welcome.
I decided to make the rear bulkhead up as a single unit to be inserted in one go. I've taken most of the detail ideas from the preserved 3 cylinder loco. Too much solder on view though....! Still a couple of bits to add.

Reworked cab floor. There are some extra holes - I don't like sealed voids... they could be the source of trouble later.

 

[dibateg]

I've not done a build where I have had to do so many reworks. Maybe I'm become more incompetent than I already am. I struggled with the upper bunker by trying to fit the parts inside the sides and back. That's not right as the vertical panel will sit to low with relation to the top of the rear face of the bunker. They should sit on the edge of the half etch at the top of the side to provide sufficient area for the beading. So I had to take it all apart and start again which resulted in some colourful language. I used jewellers half round brass wire for the beading which looks a lot better than the flat etch. Talking of that, the cab window surrounds are also etched flat, so the visible surface has been rounded with files and emery sticks. That wonky cab handrail will have to be addressed - another rework....


I scratched up the water valves form some rather crude return crank castings and other bits. I couldn't see from the photos I've seen of 2500 that there were the valves that have a wheel at the top and go vertically in to the floor as per PADs build. Instead I've installed those just in front of the cab seats. I haven't bothered with the bunker floor supplied in the kit as I shall be putting in a pretty full coal load... and it creates yet another void. Apologies - photos are slightly over exposed, I had to use artificial light as it was so dark from storm Brendon.. Lets see if I have enough patience to continue it today, but blown out fence panels to be repaired first.

 

[P A D]

Hi Tony,
Reworks! We've all been there and it makes you wonder if you've done this before. It's looking good though.

I'll check my photos of 2500 later and post any relevant pictures of the rear bulkhead and control details. I'm pretty sure there is a hand wheel on the left hand side, but I may have got it wrong putting one on the other side. There's definitely one on the right cab side in front of the seat. I modelled my slacking pipe on the photo posted by Mickoo and missed the T handle. The GA drawing for the 3P also shows a T handle and I may try to add it, but its inside the cab now.


I'm not sure if I posted all my photos of 2500 and if not, I'll put them kn the gallery as you may find them useful even ag this stage.
Cheers,
Peter

 

[P A D]

Hi Tony,
I've just checked the file of photos I took of 2500 at York and there's over 200, so I'm going to pass on posting them all. Below are a selection of cab photos, but if you are stuck with any details, just let me know what you're looking for and I'll post any relevant photos that may help. Bearing in mind of course that there are some differences between 2500 and the later 2 cylinder engines.

As far as the handwheels are concerned, 2500 has one on the rear left bulk head and one on the inside of the right hand cab side in front of the fireman's seat. I'm assuming the two handles on the bulkhead of the 3P were to operate the live steam injectors behind the cab footstep.
Therefore, it may be reasonable to assume the handle on the left of the bulkhead on 2500 is for the live steam injector behind the left hand cab step. 2500 has a larger D&M exhaust steam injector on the right side so maybe that's why the other handwheel is on the inner cab side. There is no handwheel on the 4P next to the steam lance, as on the 3P and as I have modelled my 4P. However, the plot thickens as the 2 cylinder 4Ps had two live steam injectors. Does that mean that both controls would have been on the rear bulkhead????? Either way, mine is wrong as I have one control too many. So, unless somebody can throw some light on this, you pays your money and makes your choice. Two controls on the bulkhead, or one on the bulkhead on the left and one on the right on the cab side. Sorry to have muddied the waters.








Clearly, there's no handwheel next to the steam lance.

























Hope these help, but if you need any more let me know.

Cheers,
Pete

 

[Bridgnorth01]

I would hazard a guess at the wheels you describe are the water valves for the injectors.

 

[P A D]

I believe the handwheels are for the injector steam supply. The water valves are the small levers which in this view is upper right, with the steam valve (handwheel) below. The question is, did the 2 cylinder 4Ps with two live steam injectors, have both steam valves on the rear bulkhead (as the 3P 2 6 2 did), or have the same set up as the 3 cylinder 2500, which has a large exhaust steam injector on the right hand side.

 

[Dave Holt]

I think the vertical control rod(s) on the bunker front are indeed for the injector water control valves. The drawings for the Fowler 2-6-4 tank show this arrangement with a linkage connecting the bunker mounted spindle to the water valve on the live steam injector body. The steam valves are on the boiler manifold on Stanier locos and on the back head on the Fowler locos.
Unfortunately, I haven't any drawings for the Stanier 2 cylinder 2-6-4's so cannot say whether a similar arrangement was fitted to these. On the Fowler locos, the live steam injector was mounted to inside face of the cab step whereas on the Stanier locos, the injectors were further forward, under the cab sides. It is possible that the water valve controls were mounted under the cab seats, as in the tender locos.
As a matter of interest, where was the live steam injector on 2500, relative to the cab step?
I think the other controls on the bunker front operate the tank outlet valves, similar to those mounted on the front of LMS tenders.
Dave.

 

[dibateg]

Thanks for the photos Peter - I've been using your build thread of course.

Thanks Dave - useful info.

I'm speculating here, but is one valve on 2500 on the tank on the drivers side ( as I can't see one by the slacking pipe on the far side from Peters photos ) and the other in front of the firemans seat? The question is, is there a valve in front of the drivers seat? I've assumed so, but there might not be.....

Tony

 

[P A D]

Hi Tony,
Here's a view of the drivers side from the right hand cab door. I can't see another control forward of fhd driver's seat. I believe the leaver on the floor is for the drain cocks. There's two on the other side one for the middle and one for the right hand cylinder.


I can't see anything further forward than the hand wheel on the cab side on the right.


Dave,
Thanks for your input on the various controls. Here's the live steam injector on 2500.

 

[Dave Holt]

Peter,
The live steam injector looks to be in exactly the same place as on the 2 cylinder locos. As you say, there's no sign of a quarter turn control rod near the driver's seat, so I think it'd pretty safe to assume that the injector water control valve arrangement is similar to the Fowler locos with the control rod mounted on the bunker front and operating the injector valve through a linkage.
I'm sure that the arrangements for both live steam injectors on the 2 cylinder Staniers would have been the same (handed). So a rod and handle on both sides of the bunker front seem right. I would guess the handles would be the same as the 2-6-2 Class 3's, and tender locos, rather than the hand-wheel type fitted to 2500.
Dave.

 

[LarryG]

Its 60 years ago since I worked the Fairburn version 2-6-4T's, but I recall manipulating the injector with the quadrant handle (water) on the firemans side (cab side sheet). I believe it would be the brass wheel with handle just showing in the second picture from the bottom posted at 10.12 today.

 

[dibateg]

Thanks both -
so that would make sense, one control in front of the firemans seat, the other behind the driver on the rear bulkhead. As you wouldn't want the fireman trying to get past the driver to manipulate the valve if it was in front of his seat.

More rework!

Regards
Tony

 

[Bridgnorth01]

You mention the handles for drain cocks. The lever in front of the driver will control the whole draincock setup. The two on the firemans side would be for the dampers.

 

[Dave Holt]

Ah, now I have got photos of the Fairburn tanks, taken at the Lakeside Railway. From these, I can say that the injector arrangements are different from the Stanier locos. The injectors are mounted somewhat lower and you can see the water control rod going straight up into the cab. On the driver's side, it emerged though a passage on the rear extension of the side tank, through a bracket welded to the vertical end of the tank, just below and to the rear of the reverser. I imagine that if there was a need to use this injector, the driver operated the water valve rather than the fireman pushing past him.
Unfortunately, I haven't got any shots of the fireman's side but I can't think of any reason it would be different to the driver's side.
There are no water valves at all on the front of the bunker, other than the slaking pipe valve, so the arrangements are definitely different to the Stanier locos.
The valve referred to by Larry would be related to the exhaust injector on 2500 and would not be present on the 2 cylinder locos. The exhaust injector was mounted further forward on the fireman's side than the live steam injector on the 2 cylinder locos.
I'm still of the view that the Stanier 2 cylinder locos would have both water valves on the bunker front, operating via a linkage, as previously suggested.
Dave.

 

[dibateg]

Thanks chaps -
I'll try and make a decision!

I've plonked it together here. Handrail buttons are per PAD, slicers of brass tube on the wire. Griffin boiler cleats, with the rear ones altered as the band just bolts to a vertical flange. I soldered the mudhole doors dome down to some scrap brass, as the flanges were too chunky. Took a curved file to the back of them to thin them down. Remaining solder on the dome covers can be polished off afterwards. I though of leaving them off and just having the exposed clamps, but wasn't sure I could consistently file 4 oval holes in the cladding. Cladding bolts from scale hardware ( PAD again ). Reworked oilers on the tank front. I managed to solder them off and back on again from the outside. Washout plugs are Markits turnings. PAD is to blame for pushing my envelope!


The rear fire iron bracket appears to be a forged bar with eyeholes. The best I could do was make something from copper wire to represent it... Roof is loose, but I have had a great idea about fitting it... later... The reworked oilers look less cluttered.

That valve in front of the drivers seat will go, it's crooked anyway! I think the rear door angles should be up against the bulkhead, can't do anything about that. The battle of the bunker has been won. Boiler is loose fitted. I took off the etched safety valve bases, not chunky enough, Griffin does a suitable casting. I solder in stages and then clean up, hence the missing lifting bracket at the back of the tank. You can just see a sneaky bit of copper wire supporting the upper bunker at the back after my botch up, coal will cover that.