7mm The Woodhead Electrics, formerly "Spoked or disc?"

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
I have an ongoing commission to finish a 7mm scale model of one of the Woodhead Co-Co electric locos. The body has been constructed from scratch, with rivets carefully marked out and punched by the builder, but the current owner had bought the shell and never quite got round to finishing it.

I have sourced suitable bogies (JLTRT 10000 matches pretty well), and a recent Guild Gazette revealed that Judith Edge have produced some pantographs that are the correct form. I'm happy to bodge the cab detailing up from photos.

What's stumped me is what kind of wheels did the beastie have. The earlier Bo-Bo of LNER vintage had spoked wheels. I know there are two 27000s in the UK, one at the Butterley Centre and the other in the Manchester Science Museum, but being a lazy sort I can't find the excuse for visiting at the moment.

So, do any of you fine Thunderers have a clue as to spoked or disc wheels?

Much obliged for any answers. Yes, of course the build will get a thread of its own, eventually. ;)
 

richard carr

Western Thunderer
Heather

Looking at photos on FLickr the centre axle is certainly a disc wheel and you can not see enough of the outer axles to tell.

Richard
 

OzzyO

Western Thunderer
Heather,
please don't paint a CoCo in black. It has to be green or blue.

The cab photos are not of a Co Co as they only have four ammeters on show.

OzzyO.
 

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Heather,
please don't paint a CoCo in black. It has to be green or blue.

The cab photos are not of a Co Co as they only have four ammeters on show.

OzzyO.


Actually Paul, I think only the two vertical gauges on the left are ammeters. 3rd one could be traction volts, but I'm not sure on the fourth. Anyway - they're different as the scales are different.

By way of a comparison, here's a shot of an NS1500 cab panel; still with four gauges:
Speed, voltage and 2x current.

Steph
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Yes it is, they
Heather,
please don't paint a CoCo in black. It has to be green or blue.

The cab photos are not of a Co Co as they only have four ammeters on show.

OzzyO.
Yes it is, they're not all Ammeters.

On the left is line volts, next is motor volts, these two are used to balance line and motor before switching to regenerative braking, the next two are current, on the left is field current and on the right armature current, field current changes with field weakening and series / parallel change over. Armature current changes with traction, note 0 (zero) 1/3 up the scale, above is traction, below is braking.

Gauges in detail.
British_Rail_Class_76_Cab_05-11-12_08.jpg

Both EM1 and EM2 use the exact same power gauges however the differences are in the power handles, EM1 notching brackets are thin arcs
Class 76 cab.jpg

EM2 are thick scimitar arcs
E27004 cab.jpg

Finally, the photos linked above are taken at Bury engine shed where all EM2 were stored pending sale to Holland, no EM1 to my (possibly limited) knowledge have ever been stored at Bury. The cab shots are going to be from one of these three locos outside Bury in this shot

https://www.flickr.com/photos/graham_williams/6240267024

If y'all require more I'll see what I can dig out of my reference collection.

Enjoy

Addendum, much better EM2 cab shot here from NRM

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ravensthorpe/2446013996/in/pool-nationalrailwaymuseum
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Actually Paul, I think only the two vertical gauges on the left are ammeters. 3rd one could be traction volts, but I'm not sure on the fourth. Anyway - they're different as the scales are different.

By way of a comparison, here's a shot of an NS1500 cab panel; still with four gauges:
Speed, voltage and 2x current.

Steph

Steph, from the left

Field voltage.
Unknown, but probably line voltage as it scales up to 2000
Bogie 1 armature current.
Bogie 2 armature current. Red line looks about 1200Amps which'd be about right for three traction motors with 400Amps each.
 

adrian

Flying Squad
the other in the Manchester Science Museum, but being a lazy sort I can't find the excuse for visiting at the moment.
I must be insane but I'm currently planning a trip on the train to Manchester MOSI with 24 Beaver Scouts around half term (last week in October). If you need any detail photos then please let me know and I'll see if we can get what you need.
 

adrian

Flying Squad
Both EM1 and EM2 use the exact same power gauges however the differences are in the power handles, EM1 notching brackets are thin arcs

EM2 are thick scimitar arcs
You need to get out more!!:p

I thought I was obsessed with minutiae but your depth of knowledge is impressive - much respect.:bowdown:
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Wow! I go to bed for a few hours and this happens,

Thanks everyone!

OzzyO - the colour is down to the client. I will check with him again, but I'm pretty sure he wants it in the original livery, as 27000 has been preserved at Butterley.

Adrian - bogie details would be ideal if you can find the time between shepherding a flock of scouts! The photos earlier in this thread show tanks on the ends, so pipework runs around them would be most useful. Thank you!

The bodywork is all but complete, as is most of the roof detailing. The only missing parts for this model are the cab details, the bogies and the characteristic marker discs. The pantographs were fitted, but sadly have been damaged. I could probably repair them, but since Judith Edge now has a suitable kit replacement I shall go that route for consistency.

I was aware that the cabs and controls were different between the Tommies and EM2 series. I am also aware that the preserved locos are actually representative of the converted versions sold the Netherlands. Changes, apart from the voltage, included driving positions shifting from left to right. This is why I'd prefer contemporary photos for reference where possible, but anything is useful.

I'll take a photo or two of the body shell later.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
....... converted versions sold the Netherlands. Changes, apart from the voltage........

I'll take a photo or two of the body shell later.

Heather, both the Woodhead route and the Dutch system both work off 1500V DC so no changes required there, which is one of the reasons they bought them as they could run them almost right away. E26000 'Tommy' was used as is in Holland right after the war, A: to help out the Dutch war ravaged system and B: to get milage on the loco for testing.

Later some class EM1 were used on the Liverpool - Shenfield section for testing in and around Romford, photos of these working are rather rare but do exist.;)

Looking forward to the photos, I'm sure there was a kit in the distant past, as well as an EM1, both now sit in Castle JLTRT vaults I believe.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
EM1s were rampant at Guildex. Has someone done a kit recently? Quite apart from the Woodhead layout there was one entered in the modelling competition, and I'm sure a second one was on the Guild stand during Sunday morning.

Apologies for my voltage confusion. The memory bank must have shortcircuited because it thought Woodhead was 25kV. Bzzt!
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
You need to get out more!!:p

I thought I was obsessed with minutiae but your depth of knowledge is impressive - much respect.:bowdown:
LOL only for a limited number of certain locos;)

Ironically it's the 'getting out more' that helps, you can only learn so much from Google, the rest are from books or visits to sites and reference records. As I've often said before, it's the research side that makes up a large part of my modelling sphere, probably more than the modelling itself.

If it's not too cheeky, I'd also like a look at any photos you take of the EM2, I've done a mini walkaround of the EM1 at York (but need to go back for specific details) for that planned project.
 
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