7mm US model dabblings

[cmax]

Mick, no offence taken, it's a pleasure watching how solutions develop, looking forward to further updates, as I said above, I find the whole process fascinating.

Cheers,

Gary

 

[Big Train James]

...not particularity user friendly on 3D stuff....

Beg to differ, but I'm biased of course . I get pretty lonely over here in the "Autocad for 3d" cheering section. Very...very....lonely....

This is in no way meant to be argumentative or facetious, I'm genuinely curious what functionality you find lacking in Autocad. Is it the difference in philosophy, parametric versus direct modeling, or is it about specific commands and functions? There are a handful of things which I wish I could do in Autocad, maybe less than that actually, but parametric modeling isn't one of them. My kingdom for a variable fillet command!!! And to a lesser extent, a modern dimension and text style application. There isn't much else that I can think of that I miss.

 

[Big Train James]

.......Now somebody has been generous enough to post their collection of EMD master parts catalogs on the Diesel Detailer discussion forum. Included are catalogs from the F units through at least the sd50, including switchers. And these catalogs are far more comprehensive in content than the information available on Fallen Flags.

Here is the link to the Diesel Detailer thread.

Here is the link directly to the catalogs.

I recommend.......

Jim

This fellow has added additional content to his previous collection of EMD catalogs. I suspect that somebody here might find the new material of interest. Of particular note are an sd70 parts catalog, as well as line drawings of an sd70ACe and a GE Gevo type truck frame. Lots of useful info here.

Here is the link to the Diesel Detailer thread.

Here is the link directly to the catalogs.

 

[mickoo]

This fellow has added additional content to his previous collection of EMD catalogs. I suspect that somebody here might find the new material of interest. Of particular note are an sd70 parts catalog, as well as line drawings of an sd70ACe and a GE Gevo type truck frame. Lots of useful info here.

Here is the link to the Diesel Detailer thread.

Here is the link directly to the catalogs.

James, cheers and very much obliged

The GE truck has more info and dimensions than I had previously, of course that now means I need to make adjustments and truth be told, might as well work up a new model....because Autocad won't let me edit the current one I have effectively.

This goes back to my previous statement of Autocad being clunky for 3D work, there are times once a part is finished that you cannot edit a face or edge because it's not smart enough to know what to do with other faces or edges attached, I may, probably am, doing something wrong, but then I cut my teeth on 3DStudioMax for flight simulator and train simulator games which is designed for 3D work and pretty crap at 2D stuff, well impossible actually.

The SD70 info is really great, sadly not a 70ACe but a 90MAC if the text data is to go by.....and I think it's right. Never the less it does give a lot of info on what I call the Centennial type cab, all be it with tapered nose, fitted to SD70Ms and those are next on the list after developing the 70ACe/AH.

A UP SD70ACe/AH paint diagram would be to die for, they must be out there somewhere as must data on the steering style trucks.

You actually get quite a lot of useful info and datum's from the paint diagrams, I've got one for a C&NW Dash 9 and to date, it's given pretty good data and scaling.

 

[Big Train James]

I wonder if the drawing in that RMC article on the UP sd70AH would be of use. I believe it was a colored line drawing.

There is a section on the radial trucks in the sd70 manual, that includes several line drawings from various angles. It was one of the things I checked first .

I would also like data on the sd70ACe, late sd70's, or sd90s. I keep looking for a drawing of the 52" radiator fan, to no avail yet.

I tend to think of the Centennial type cab as equivalent to the f/fp45's, and the sd/gp60m's. I don't think any of the sd70's ever came with the straight-sided noses, until the phase II design, as I believe they were phased out while the sd60 was still in production. If I was going to bash one, I'd probably start with the Atlas gp60m cab. I don't know a ton about either nose, I'm sure there are distinctions, but that's where I would start.

By the way, many years back, there was a 2-part article in the UPHS magazine, The Streamliner, outlining all of the details and phase distinctions for the up sd90's. Sometime in the 2000's I believe. I can't remember if there were technical drawings in the article, or just photos and text. But it might be worth a gamble to find out.

I thought you might find those GE truck drawings of interest .

 

[Jordan]

I know it's still rather too early in the year, but here goes....

"Dear Santa Mick,
This year I have been a very good boy, and I would like a 1:48 scale 3D print of a CF7 cab............"

 

[Scale7JB]

I know it's still rather too early in the year, but here goes....

"Dear Santa Mick,
This year I have been a very good boy, and I would like a 1:48 scale 3D print of a CF7 cab............"

Does that count as a 'wishlist'??

JB.

 

[mickoo]

Got any drawings, I think they're F7 body shell profile roof with flat front and rear, weren't some fitted with angled roofs.

I'm limited on one axis to 65 mm, say 62 with clearance, that means the cab, any cab, cannot go across the build area, but can go lengthwise, then it'll be the length fore and aft that will be your determining factor. A GEVO cab from nose to rear cab door is 80 mm or so, that's why I can't do a GEVO or modern engine.

The GP9 and EMD Spartan cab is 41 mm, shorter than they are wide.

The critical measurement is the distance between cab faces front and rear, if it's less than 62 it'll fit, even then there are other factors like orientation, which faces you make sacrificial (preferably two) and how do you support the large blank sides; usually with supports inside the shell, these will leave witness marks, not an issue on a nose module but might be on the inside of a cab wall.

They can be smoothed/cleaned up or even covered with a thin plasticard cab interior wall.

I am planning to work up a complete spartan cab shell at the weekend, lets see how that pans out, structurally, accuracy and quality wise. If you already had the sides and roof carcass then new fronts and rears are simple to do, as the SD35 spartan cab front showed.

I also need to make a new nose for my Red Caboose GP9, well all three of them really and unlike Atlas, Red Caboose did not provide centre windows under their high hood, so a new cab front is mandatory.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Got any drawings, I think they're F7 body shell profile roof with flat front and rear, weren't some fitted with angled roofs.

Yes, the original batches of CF7's reused the F7 cab profile, later conversions received Topeka cabs of which there are two variants of window locations.

I also need to make a new nose for my Red Caboose GP9, well all three of them really and unlike Atlas, Red Caboose did not provide centre windows under their high hood, so a new cab front is mandatory.

Chop nose, low nose (GP20 style) or both?

 

[mickoo]

I wonder if the drawing in that RMC article on the UP sd70AH would be of use. I believe it was a colored line drawing.

There is a section on the radial trucks in the sd70 manual, that includes several line drawings from various angles. It was one of the things I checked first .

I would also like data on the sd70ACe, late sd70's, or sd90s. I keep looking for a drawing of the 52" radiator fan, to no avail yet.

I tend to think of the Centennial type cab as equivalent to the f/fp45's, and the sd/gp60m's. I don't think any of the sd70's ever came with the straight-sided noses, until the phase II design, as I believe they were phased out while the sd60 was still in production. If I was going to bash one, I'd probably start with the Atlas gp60m cab. I don't know a ton about either nose, I'm sure there are distinctions, but that's where I would start.

By the way, many years back, there was a 2-part article in the UPHS magazine, The Streamliner, outlining all of the details and phase distinctions for the up sd90's. Sometime in the 2000's I believe. I can't remember if there were technical drawings in the article, or just photos and text. But it might be worth a gamble to find out.

I thought you might find those GE truck drawings of interest .

I believe you kindly acquired a spare copy of that RMC Mag and shipped it across the pond

You're right on the Centennial noses, pretty sure they are the same as the F45's etc but I think the SD70 uses the same screens, just the nose plan profile that altered, I'm sure there are other differences but that's the primary one I can see.

I managed two Phase I walk arounds and one Phase II last year so I have a fair bit of photo data, I also managed three ACe's as well one being an FXE unit...not a paint scheme I really like truth be told.

Can't help with the 96" fan data other than this single close up (closer detail as opposed to overhead roster views) shot at West Colton.

 

[mickoo]

Yes, the original batches of CF7's reused the F7 cab profile, later conversions received Topeka cabs of which there are two variants of window locations.



Chop nose, low nose (GP20 style) or both?

Cheers (CF7)

Maybe both, one unit is planned to be a CN variant, GP20 I think, the other two are a toss up between ATSF blue bonnet or candy SPSF (Shouldn't Paint So Fast) or a SP low nose, or, a UP high or low nose. Which means I'm two kits short doesn't it

Any low nose GP9/20 will also require a lot of long hood work as well, something I was trying to avoid if I'm honest, in which case I'll probably end up with one SP and one UP high nose and one CN low nose.

To be fair my main focus will be the Sd24, pretty much identical cab and noses to the GP9/20, EMD trialled three on the SP for a few months, even painted them grey with bloody noses, but no numbers or logos, I'll invoke rule 1 I think and add them

 

[Jordan]

I'm limited on one axis to 65 mm, say 62 with clearance, that means the cab, any cab, cannot go across the build area, but can go lengthwise, then it'll be the length fore and aft that will be your determining factor.

A 'flat-pack' cab would do - 4 individual pieces (front, back, 2 sides) and a short hood, which was quite small. The roof would be easy enough from plasticard.
Despite the F-Unit connection I prefer the later angled cab. In the US someone scratchbuilt this cab, but has since died unfortunately.


Will have to dig out measurements. 5-step pilot ends would be good, too!!
Here's one I did earlier - in HO, though. Note variations to above cab - one window and louvres on cab side, and deep Engineer's front window.

 

[mickoo]

What chassis do you envisage fitting it too? IE will you need cut outs in the front and rear faces.

The exact width would be important, the other dimensions are fudgeable....give or take 0.5 mm here or there I suspect.

The nose looks like a spartan cab variant, same for the cab front and light boards, though the windscreens are obviously different, I've actually got one or two photos off the web so it wouldn't be hard to knock up.

On my SD35 cab front it's actually quite thick, 2.5 mm for strength and reducing warping, but, the important bits are the recesses for the glazing which give a better visual appearance.

Let me see what I can draft up and then work out the best way to combine parts or break it down, flat pack is ideal but requires an adhesive and I'm not yet sure what the best one is for this type of resin.

There's obviously variants within the variants, if you have photos of a specific one it'd help.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I do have some HO CF7 drawings. I'll hunt them down if you want.

For the long hood a non-dynamic brake Red Caboose GP9 would be the starting point but modifications would be required to lower the height (and door height also I believe).

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

There's this book as well.

 

[mickoo]

Dave, I've book marked that book from a while ago, sadly all US examples and horrendous shipping costs and not going to be here by the weekend lol, I might get one anyway long term.

Fundamentally to get started I only need some basic measurements, cab front to rear, footplate to lower edge of angled roof (height of side sheet), overall cab height off the footplate, length and width of nose (some look like truncated spartan cab noses, others home brewed) and height of nose at cab front. The rest can be worked out from that.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I'll get what data I have across to you later.

 

[Big Train James]

Mick, if you're going to get after a gp20/sd24 model, you might be served to get this Withers Publishing book on the topic. These books are full of photos of units from all or most roads, plus they typically have drawings included. I've been meaning to get one of the sw1500 books, but haven't bothered as I've sourced information elsewhere and I'm really only interested in the SP versions at the moment.

I emailed a link to some files on the cf7. They are probably the same drawings that Dave has.

No good way to offer pointers on the 3d cad editing, without some video or looking over your shoulder. I apparently now have a zoom account, we could always do a video call where you share your screen. It seems to work fairly well for the CNC and Mastercam classes I'm trying to finish up.

 

[mickoo]

I think it looks something like this.





First mock up, it only just fits in the build area and this orientation will not give the best results, so, it look slike it'll have to be broken down into the cab face with brow boards and the nose with steps and battery boxes attached. Some slots and tabs should lock it all together nicely.

I've not found any images of the drivers side front face, there's probably even down there and maybe even a second window like the round topped roof versions.

I also need to add the sand filler mechanism inspection doors.

 

[mickoo]

Mick, if you're going to get after a gp20/sd24 model, you might be served to get this Withers Publishing book on the topic. These books are full of photos of units from all or most roads, plus they typically have drawings included. I've been meaning to get one of the sw1500 books, but haven't bothered as I've sourced information elsewhere and I'm really only interested in the SP versions at the moment.

I emailed a link to some files on the cf7. They are probably the same drawings that Dave has.

No good way to offer pointers on the 3d cad editing, without some video or looking over your shoulder. I apparently now have a zoom account, we could always do a video call where you share your screen. It seems to work fairly well for the CNC and Mastercam classes I'm trying to finish up.

James, cheers for the info and yes that is one Withers book that's on my list, as is the DD35/ DD40AX. I do have the older Diesel Data series pamphlet, it has some good drawings in.