7mm US model dabblings

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Sorry, finger trouble; ECAFB Electrical Cabinet Air Filter Box. Behind the left hand side of the cab, under the window on a standard cab, it's built in to the cab step of the Canadian cab.
Steph

Ahh yes that little box, it'll be there:thumbs: it's on all the Dash two models and some earlier variants which need not concern us further more :) See here circled in red on this CSX GP39-2
CSX 4311b.JPG

Some interesting other details to note, circled in green is the 'short' rear cab overhang, all have the same length at the base near the cab side sheet but the upper length which adjoins the electrical cubicle is different, 'long' ones are twice the length shown here, I've made the art work suit the long model and users simply need file back to the short size if required.

Battery box cover is bolted (non standard bolt arrangement) with long slotted vent, nearly all CSX locos have this and as far as I can tell only NS 5163-5171 as well. Sub cab compartment door is a Phase I door hinge variant....with additional louvres :headbang:, backed up by the Phase I taper sided footwell and lack of Anticlimber. Cab door is the heavy thick three hinged winter style door, when closed it completely covers the door seal, these tend to be fitted to locos working in colder climes. CSX 4311 is Ex DH 7403_Ex Reading 3403 and hails from NE USA where it can get pretty cold, the heavy duty door would not normally be fitted to locos ordered for Florida LOL.
Loco is fitted with modern roof mounted AC unit, another item I have to look into, possible 3D print item to consider.

Onward, battery boxes, Phase I bolted and Phase II hinged at the bottom, take your pick, the majority are catered for as far as I can see. Not sure how best to replicate the louvres, currently just a raised part on the overall half etch plate, I may run a small 0.1/0.2mm slot along each base so you could push it out with a suitable former...screwdriver blade tip? Some more thought required on that small detail later.
Image2.jpg

Next, sub cab compartments, two basic types, Phase I with door type hinges...tend to rust, rot through and break and Phase II hinges which are basically open hinges with a steel bar sitting in a lipped retainer on the frame, Phase I hinge down and stay attached to the loco, Phase II once unlatched can be lifted clear.
Image4.jpg

Enjoy
 

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
Could they not find somewhere a little more discrete for them, maybe afford them a little decency? Knowing very little (i.e. virtually none) about railroading the otherside of the pond - the mind boggles with this one!
Bear in mind that "low nose" on a US loco is the same as "top of the roof" on a UK diesel :)

I'd like to answer the Q re the toilet hatch on Soo Geeps, but I'm not privy to the information... :D :)) :D

.... that's terrible.... someone please kill me.... :oops: :oops: :oops:
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Well it's the end of the 'working' week and nearly there, I had to admit defeat with the SOU/NS high nose, it just won't go on an A4 sheet, I can go bigger but there are other alterations needed so it'll have to reside on it's own bespoke sheet, much like the Canada cab version and the SP/UP version which has different windscreen locations (EX SP with its original inverted L screen means that in later lives the replacements do not match other GP38-2's).

Just a few more sundry items (just spotted no half etch 'assisted cut lines' in the nose for those locos fitted with headlights down there) to add and then begin tabbing up in earnest and layering for the half etching as well as a major tidy up and arranging of items.
Image2.jpg

The grid is about 3.3mm Squares

Enjoy
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Ta daa, all done and off at the etchers, time to crack on with the Canada cab version and NS high nose version, both much simplified and with much less options to add in.

The below should cover the majority of GP38-2, GP38, GP40s and several SD classes with a standard Spartan cab, though I've not cross checked in any great detail as yet, primarily as I'm trying to restrain myself and just stick with the GP38-2....which numbers over 2000 models and about a billion variations!

There may be some areas that do not etch very well for the thickness of material chosen, that's not much of an issue as I fully expect...and have budgeted for... a V02 to fine tune the art work for final production. There are also areas where I've been over cautious so am keen to see how fine a detail you can actually get.

Image2.jpg

I still haven't decided on my chosen model, well I want several but the first one so to speak. It's a close run thing between a Gatorland CSX in dark blue (happy holiday memories) or a grubby light grey with blue 'hockey stick' scheme, a BNSF blue bonnet or a really filthy UP (Ex C&NW) variant, mind a grubby BNSF 'pumpkin' would look nice....so many to choose from LOL. Ideally a non dynamic version first off as that's the easiest engine hood to model, though to be honest I'll still have to add the dynamic blisters onto the etch work as adding them later or on another artwork is cost prohibitive. Non dynamic suits CN/SOO/UP/C&NW) and some BNSF

Enjoy
 

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
Yep, non-dynamic great for the Soo. They did have some (10 IIRC ) with dynamics after 1985; they were Ex-Milwaukee engines.

The amount of livery variations possible remind me of BR Classes 37 & 47 - the GP38-2 looks good in all of them as well... :D
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Yep, non-dynamic great for the Soo. They did have some (10 IIRC ) with dynamics after 1985; they were Ex-Milwaukee engines.

The amount of livery variations possible remind me of BR Classes 37 & 47 - the GP38-2 looks good in all of them as well... :D

Regarding dynamics, BNSF only had six non dynamic locos, all originally in blue bonnet which looks great and CSX only had four, sadly NS are all dynamic fitted otherwise that would of been full house for me.

I have to agree, it's the colours that do it for me, as you say, over the 40 years or so there's dozens of schemes to choose from:thumbs:
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Anyway, onward

Progress on the Canada cab, oddly the biggest issue to date has been what to fill all the gaping holes in the etch with, there being many less options with this cab than the standard Spartan version. So much so that there's space for a structural cab floor and partial front bulkhead. The high nose NS/SOU version may well even have more space so might be able to work in more cab interior than the Canada variant.

Image2.jpg

Still some way to go yet, but getting there.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Well I had a nice chat with PPD on Monday with little or no errors in the art work so off it went to the production line and duly turned up today:thumbs: Now that's service at one week turn around.

So how did it all go, pretty darn good if I'm honest and all things being equal I could run with this for future models, there are some things that can be fine tuned but overall I'm more than happy. However a sheet of A4 NS isn't cheap not the first one anyway, they do become cheaper once the tool has been made, but it did get me thinking that it might be more 'financially' beneficial to make a core structure in 10Thou brass over which etched NS parts are laid. I am considering just a sheet of detail parts likes battery covers, doors and latches etc, but that's a sub bubble I'll tend to in due course....I've my larger Dash 9 one to tend to very shortly now since these etches have come back.

There are enough spare parts (doors, battery covers etc) on these etches to make several variants and thus are spare once you have chosen your particular model, so for the NS high nose I'll play with a brass core shell and add etched overlays where applicable, sort of a 'lite' version.

This cab etch work will more than likely become a CXS Phase II.....because I saw one on holiday:)
Csx 2808.jpg

So to the piccies;)
First up, an overall shot of the whole sheet.
IMG_3508.JPG
Note damaged door mid bottom, wasn't happy about that out of the packaging and fairly sure I didn't do it unwrapping it, but it should be salvageable.

Next some close ups and some notes underneath
IMG_3515.JPG
Mid picture are the Canadian specific classification lights, I did consider daylighting the cores and lighting them up but they're so small so I think a blob of the correct coloured paint will suffice....for me anyway, they can still of course be drilled out and lenses added if one desired. To the left are circular objects, these are the main US nose/or tail classification light fitments. furthest left is an over large circular cover which is often just welded over the hole, next at the top of the column of fittings are the daylight ones which you'd use if you want to light your marker lights, with a suitable cast fitting over the top, not the lower one has a rim around the middle, an error in the tch I will look at in case I need to go to V03. In the middle are half etch flush fittings which wehn soldered in will leave a flush finish with a hint of a circular line and last are the standard rims with just an internal blanking plate. All of these fit into a recessed hole in the nose seen top right.

IMG_3511.JPG
Of interest here is the battery box cover with tread plate, this is the correctly scaled one and the treads have come out just fine, the idea is to run over them with fine abrasive paper to smooth some of the hard edges off, mid image are the nose equipment covers with stirrup latches, these are probably the worst on the etch with out a full outline around the latch handle but still acceptable I feel. Middle bottom is one of the bolted battery box covers with vents, the lower edge of each vent is half etched in the rear so a slice with a sharp knife will open them up, the idea then is to push out the lower edge a suitably shaper tool....screw driver tip. Although the front part of the vent is half etched it doesn't look too bad, but I will try to blend it in to the cover with some solder (or maybe a fine filler of some sort) along the top and side edges and then sand smooth, not perfection but hopefully passable once painted.

IMG_3512.JPG
Mid picture are the cab sub compartment doors, phase II above and phase I below, not sure if it can be seen but there's a small half etch on the phase I hinges to let in a thin wire to form the hinge...thanks Richard for the 'light bulb moment'. The two objects above and below are the engine intake snow covers as fitted to Spartan cab CN locos. The two squares are further nose classification light covers and up the top is the CN cab bell bracket.

IMG_3514.JPG
Finally some more details, mid picture are the brow number board hatches, to the right more battery box covers, CSX bolted with large slot vent and phase II with stirrup latches, on the left are the cab steps and again another niggle in that the holes are a little large, but acceptable. The two long strips are for the cab sides to support the sun visors of which one can be seen. The two tread plate covers are for the engineers side battery box, the mid left is the 'enhanced' oversized tread and is very well formed, the bottom right is the true size one and whilst ok isn't quite as well defined.

The next step is to scan the etch and then mark up the finished image with part numbers and a descriptive text as well as explaining all the internal half etches cut guides, mostly in the nose to allow for one etch to cover both 81" and 88" noses with no headlights, V cut headlights, half V (CN) and deep recessed (BNSF). Clear as it is in my head now, in a few weeks it'll all be a muddle and I'll look at it and go WTH was that supposed to be LOL.

Then....time to build:thumbs:
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
Mick

Looks great. The knuckle buster latches have come out very well. The scale tread plate looks much better than the oversize version, well more to scale, the texture isn't obvious from any distance on the real ones but it does catch the light so needs to be there. Once you have proved it all fits together it would be worth talking to the Proto48 website guys as they will be interested and you could sell a few. A bit beyond the average US 'O gauge' modeller though.
 

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
Overseer said:
A bit beyond the average US 'O gauge' modeller though.
:eek: Oi !!! I have been known to dabble in the Soldering Arts, y'know.... :p

...or did you mean the average American US O gauge modeller..? :) ;) As most of them seem to be into 3-rail, I'd be inclined to agree with you.... :D

One thing I've always liked on US locos is how in hot weather they leave the front cab door open. Would be easy to do that with this model - just need to hide the truck motor somehow, if it was powered by twin motors, Atlas-style.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Richard, it'd take a bit more than a week LOL, well for a full kit set of etches it would, but tanks, cab boiler and footplate platework wouldn't take that long, you'd just need a decent set of works drawings, I would like a Stanier 2cyl 2-6-4T so might opt for this route a little further down the road.

Overseer, thanks, yes the latches are one of the highlights of the etches and last night under closer inspection there are a couple of areas that will certainly need altering to make it more 'robust' for common user applications. I haven't decided on the go no go for public release but have factored in as much as I can if I do opt for that route, as you say, it'd have to be for those who recognise the parts and understand the prototype in detail, otherwise a detailed list of options available would make an instruction set a tome worthy of any door stop. None the less I will whizz up some paperwork, as noted above, as an additional memory jog for me at a later date if needed.

Whilst the cab was aimed around the GP38-2 some quick checking the other day show it'll fit a lot of GP40-2, non dash 2 GP38/40, GP35, some GP50 and I think a lot of GP60 (additional parts may need reworking, need to check that). It should also do SD40, 45 and 50, possibly 60 and maybe a SD35/38 so could suit many applications.

Jordan, doors, precisely, that's why I went to all the pain of making door openings and multipart doors with a front, inner and rear layer to trap the glazing, I specifically wanted a door open model. regarding motors, I'm keeping an eye out for the Roco/Atlas F7s, they use a central can motor and tower drives which are much less intrusive than the standard Atlas/Heljan motor mounted vertically on the bogie, hopefully the towers are low enough to clear the Spartan cab floor, if not then plan b is to make my own bogie sub frames (sprung) with hopefully Stephs remote gear boxes and a driveshaft central motor set low in the chassis/tank area, with care I think I can incline the drive shaft so that it does not appear under the frame too much, especially for those locos with very small 1700gal tanks. Failing all that, I'll just go with a rear motor only as I'm only envisaging shunting or short trip work.

Today I have to decided 'finally' on my first prototype as tonight I want to start mocking it up, it'll be easier to cut on the guide etches in the flat than when built up, so before that can happen a prototype has to be chosen.
 

Pugsley

Western Thunderer
Oh Mick, that's one hell of a distraction that you've put on here! Especially as you've mentioned GP60s, I now have visions of grey, red and speed lettering....

Seriously though, I'm watching this with interest as I'd quite like to build something different at some point. Any plans for a Tunnel Motor? :D
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Pugsley, ok a quick whizz through my images shows this etch will cover most GP60's, which is handy as I want to replicate UP 1949 (Ex SSW 9692) which I saw in Florida, I did already factor in the handbrake cover which is a bolted cover over the top half of the recess for the handbrake wheel, as opposed to the ratchet handbrake on the GP38-2 etc, there should also be a lower cover on some locos which isn't on the etch.....I'll add this in V03.

The current etch will cover UP (ex SSW not Ex SP and Ex DRGW) plus BNSF/ATSF, it won't currently cover 'all' SP, primarily as the handbrake wheel on later models is recessed whereas earlier ones are flush mounted. I'd have to alter the nose etch to allow for that cut out. Currently it'll cover SP 9600-9619 (order 866185) the later batch SP 9715-9794 (orders 907137 & 936428) all have recessed hand brake wheels and retain this in UP days. Factoring a recessed section into half etch guide cut lines might be a bit tricky LOL.

Tunnel motor, yes, I have a handful of primary project folders in which all info and photos are stored, MP15, GP15, GP38-2, GP60, SD40-2 (all variants, snoots and tunnels) and Dash 9 comfort cabs, the last as one might gather is rather bloated at 4500 Images and data records:eek:, excluding the several hundred walk around photos I took in Florida.

This current etch won't suit the SP tunnel models, much as it won't suit all the SP GP38-2s. SP opted for inverted L shaped screens, which means that the engineers window top edge is parallel to the centre screens when rebuilt, on all other cabs the engineers windscreen is a few inches higher. Thus for a SP tunnel motor or winter GP38-2 I'll need to work up a specific etch, there are other changes in the nose light platework which could be added to the current etch but it's messy enough already, better (more expensive as need a new photo tool) to make a bespoke cab etch for the SP versions, GP and SD in both SP or later UP formats. The current etch will however suit the D&RGW tunnels motors and in their later life at UP.

Ex SP inverted L screen locos with lowered engineers windscreen.
Image1.jpg

Standard Spartan cab screen locos with raised engineers windscreen.
Image2.jpg
Images are crops from photos off the web, copyright remains with their respective owners and are shown here for indicative purposes only.

Note #603 has another variant of marker light cover I've not covered:rolleyes:

So to round up, a snoot and porch SD40-2T have been planned:thumbs:
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
:eek: Oi !!! I have been known to dabble in the Soldering Arts, y'know.... :p

...or did you mean the average American US O gauge modeller..? :) ;) As most of them seem to be into 3-rail, I'd be inclined to agree with you.... :D

One thing I've always liked on US locos is how in hot weather they leave the front cab door open. Would be easy to do that with this model - just need to hide the truck motor somehow, if it was powered by twin motors, Atlas-style.
Have to admit I hadn't thought about un-American modellers. You have to remember -mr cover 1.jpeg

although the alternative masthead used by MR in the 1960s was 'ENJOYMENT WITH EVERLASTING CHALLENGE' which probably applies more to WTers and Mickoo especially, but MR stopped using it after a while as it wasn't inclusive enough. I have always thought the Railway Toddler line 'For the Average Modeller' somewhat depressing.

On drive systems, Protocraft do a series of gearboxes etc which put the drive below cab floor level and may be worth a look, but are not cheap.
 

Jordan

Mid-Western Thunderer
The old Atlas/Roco drive towers would definitely be too tall & 'invade' the cab. As they also formed the pivot mounting for the truck - quite high up - simply removing the drive to the front truck wouldn't improve matters either.
Formyself I'd use a current Atlas power truck at the rear, & non-power at the front, as I have done to upgrade my old F-units, although it's a bit of a 'bodge job'... but I'm thinking in terms of lash-up capability with all my Atlas locos in bog-standard 12v DC form.
 
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