Wagon Allsorts

Rambler

Active Member
Rationale
Now that ScaleSeven area meetings have been curtailed I wondered what arrangement could work as a substitute. In other hobbies, video conferencing seems to be gaining popularity, at least with those who enjoy a bit of chat. I didn't think that that would work for railway modelling (but I'm willing to be included if someone wants to try running a Skype or Zoom meeting) and came to the conclusion that a better approach would be to post more often on forums like this one. Previously I've been careful to only post "polished" photos but that seems to have deterred me from posting, so in this thread I'm hoping to post more often and not worry about the quality of the photos.

G&SWR Mineral Wagon
I bought an Ian Kirk G&SWR mineral wagon from the Guild E&T service a few years ago. This was the photo on the Guild website:

jopcmimigollhfph.png

.. and this is what was on my workbench today:

DSC_104_0462_small.JPG

(to be continued)
 

76043

Western Thunderer
I'll be trying a virtual modelmaking day this weekend with a friend of mine. I don't see why it can't work. You can show the stuff you're working on quite easily I think and chew the fat whilst working.

I don't see why you couldn't have a number of people joining in.

Why not give it a go? Hangouts, Facetime, Skype and Zoom all seem pretty much the same, the only difference is priced features and if you have the right account for a particular platform.

Would be fun to have WT virtual group, finally get to see the faces behind the posts!

Tony
 

Rambler

Active Member
DSC_104_0463_extract.JPGG&SWR Mineral Wagon
The full picture is shown above.
As can be seen, I've not got much left of the original wagon! The solebar unit is only in the picture for completeness - the most I'll use is the springs and axleboxes. Initially I thought I'd dismantle the wagon, fit a sprung underframe unit, and tidy up some of the detail but I've ended up scrapping quite a lot of it.

I'm not sure of the prototype for this wagon. It generally conforms to the photos in the HMRS Journal (Number 1 of Volume 16) and a Ken Werrett drawing in the Railway Modeller for October 1979, but the sides are a bit deeper. Perhaps this kit was based on a wagon that was built towards the end of the GSWR's existence.
 

Marc Dobson

Western Thunderer
Putting a online/virtual group together might be useful, regardless of the current situation, for those of us who live some distance away from the main group. I would be up for something.

Marc
 

Overseer

Western Thunderer
View attachment 120596G&SWR Mineral Wagon
The full picture is shown above.
As can be seen, I've not got much left of the original wagon! The solebar unit is only in the picture for completeness - the most I'll use is the springs and axleboxes. Initially I thought I'd dismantle the wagon, fit a sprung underframe unit, and tidy up some of the detail but I've ended up scrapping quite a lot of it.

I'm not sure of the prototype for this wagon. It generally conforms to the photos in the HMRS Journal (Number 1 of Volume 16) and a Ken Werrett drawing in the Railway Modeller for October 1979, but the sides are a bit deeper. Perhaps this kit was based on a wagon that was built towards the end of the GSWR's existence.
Hopefully Ian@StEnochs will be able to confirm the prototype of the wagon. From previous experience it is much more likely that Ian Kirk had accurate information. Every Ken Werrett I have looked at in detail has been a work of fiction, very well drawn but little basis in fact and his claimed measure ups must have been very incomplete. This is a kit I would like to have but have never managed to find one. I think it was one of Ian Kirk's first O scale kits and it didn't get into the Parkside range as his NB wagons did. Looks like it needs the side door hinges adding.
 

Rambler

Active Member
More Rationale
I forgot to mention that another impediment to posting is the desire to upload a complete build in consecutive postings. Unfortunately I (like many others I suspect) have multiple builds running in parallel; any one of them can get sidelined for months on end if a particular problem arises or if the next step is particularly tedious. So readers can expect this thread to jump all over the place, but hopefully I can keep posting. And now for the first jump.

Midland Railway Ventilated Van
This is a model for which I do have prototype information, albeit just one photo. On page 80 of Midland Album is a picture of a Midland 10T van - I first saw this in the late 1960s, when I had this book on more-or-less permanent loan from Sunderland Library. The same photo appears on page 136 of Bob Essery's Midland Wagons Volume 1, where the caption suggests that this is probably a diagram 378 van with a replacement door (on the side photographed).

I'm building this from the Slaters kit 7024F for the 10T fitted fruit van with the w-irons replaced with the ones for 3' wheels (Slaters part 71550).
This is the body with additional bracketing at the base of the framing, also braces on the lower door runner.

DSC_104_0457_extract.jpg

I'm assuming that the door on the other side was not altered, so the diagonal framing needed to be removed and replaced by horizontal planking.

DSC_104_0452_extract.jpg
 

Crimson Rambler

Western Thunderer
Thank goodness - someone else who is very wary of Ken Werret's waggon drawings. They look so convincing - he obviously was a very talented draughtsman - but tragically the drawings' accuracy is not to the same standard. Alarm bells first rang when I saw his drawing of a Midland 10-ton brake van in which the sides were a foot adrift in height.

Crimson Rambler
 

Rambler

Active Member
Midland Railway Ventilated Van

The brakegear on this van appears to be a mixture of Midland and LMS components. I'm using a mixture of bits for the model, the push-rods are Ambis with square brass packing and the rest is Exactoscale, sometimes modified.

DSC_104_0477_extract.JPG

At this stage the axle-boxes are only required to work out how the brake-levers need to be bent.
I was about to fix the brake levers and brake racks in place when I realised that the brake racks shouldn't have the tag at the bottom to locate a stay. I could have used Ambis parts but they use quite thin material that looks too flimsy to me, so I made some from scrap fret (see below). OK the holes aren't perfectly in line but hopefully they'll look OK when they're painted.

DSC_104_0478_extract.JPG

A bonus today was that I came across a photo that shows the insignia position on these vans with cross-braced doors in the earlier (big LMS) livery. Its in Midland Record No 2, page 61, and shows the L and S hard up against the bottom of the second and third set of louvres and the M low down in the upper segment of the door. The M appear to be slightly higher than the other letters.
 

Rambler

Active Member
Midland Railway Ventilated Van

I mocked up this view of the van so that I can ask for info on the brake gear. In the photo you can see that it has had its brake gear updated but you can't see much in the darkness under the body, so its not clear whether its got two sets of brake gear or just the one set on the nearest side. You also can't see where the vacuum cylinder is located - I'm assuming its got one as the van is XP rated and has a star on the solebar to show where the vacuum release is located. I'd be grateful if anyone who has access to a better print of the photo (by H. C Casserley) could let me know whether any more details of the brake system can be seen.

DSC_104_0485_extract.JPG

And this is my model of a fully-fitted van (in 4mm) showing the "large LMS" livery (that I now know to be at least plausible):

DSC_104_0480_extract_1.jpg

In 4mm its possible to have the L, M , and S lined up but the 7mm mouldings are slightly different (and more accurate, I think) so the letters might have to be smaller, or not lined up.

And while I had the camera handy I took photos of two other 4mm vans, that have been incomplete for some time (basically since I changed to 7mm).
DSC_104_0480_extract_3.jpg
 

Ian@StEnochs

Western Thunderer
Midland Railway Ventilated Van

I mocked up this view of the van so that I can ask for info on the brake gear. In the photo you can see that it has had its brake gear updated but you can't see much in the darkness under the body, so its not clear whether its got two sets of brake gear or just the one set on the nearest side. You also can't see where the vacuum cylinder is located - I'm assuming its got one as the van is XP rated and has a star on the solebar to show where the vacuum release is located. I'd be grateful if anyone who has access to a better print of the photo (by H. C Casserley) could let me know whether any more details of the brake system can be seen.

View attachment 123313

Sorry but I think the brake gear is wrong way round. If the lever is pushed down the brake shoes would pull away from the wheels. For it to work the push rod on the left would need to be on the top of the lever and that on the right below.

Ian.
 

Rambler

Active Member
Fortunately the brake gear isn’t soldered up yet (in the hope that I’ll get a steer as to whether I need to add another set) so it’s easily changed.
 

Lochgorm

New Member
Fortunately the brake gear isn’t soldered up yet (in the hope that I’ll get a steer as to whether I need to add another set) so it’s easily changed.
I would say that the offending article in your mock up is the brake lever itself which has a cam on it. If you fitted a plain brake lever the push rods and shoes are OK as you have arranged them.

I am not sure what configuration you are trying to represent. Are you going for single sided brakes with single sided lever or single sided brakes with both side brake levers? In both cases the plain lever goes on the side of the brakes and for both side brake operation a shaft runs across to the opposite side to be applied with a cam fitted lever.

These are lots of helpful photographs if you can get hold of Essery's Midland Wagons.

Charlie
 

Peter Cross

Western Thunderer
I thought on Morton brakes the cam was on the same side as the brakes and plain lever on other side. Which would make the brakes the wrong way around.
 

Ian@StEnochs

Western Thunderer
I thought on Morton brakes the cam was on the same side as the brakes and plain lever on other side. Which would make the brakes the wrong way around.

That is how I understand them to be arranged. On Ramblers model all he needs to do is switch the position of the push rods.

Ian.
 

Rambler

Active Member
Its not called Wagon Allsorts for nothing...

I tend to have trouble with chamfered corner joints, as in this Parkside SR Van :
DSC_104_0505_extract.jpg

As you can see, the two edges don't quite meet so there's a sort of rounded corner with a gap. I've previously used filler, or inserted a sliver of plastic strip, but this time I came up with what (IMHO) is a much better solution. I first opened up the gap with my favourite small sharp square file and then glued in a strip of square section plastic strip. I'd make this plastic strip by filing a bit of the kit sprue into a flat section about 1/2 mm thick and then cutting it into strips. Thus:
DSC_104_0509_extract.JPG

When the glue has set, the insert can be cut/whittled/filed/sanded to size. Using the kit sprue ensures that its the same colour as the material its being glued into, which makes it easier to judge when its time to stop fettling. Thus:
DSC_104_0512_extract.jpg
It looks a bit scruffy at this level of magnification but I think its a big improvement.

NB: Not all Parkside vans are like this (and it may just be the way I build them) and open wagons shouldn't have square corners on the corner plates.
 
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