BUSES ~ Model and prototype...

Discussion in 'Talk' started by LarryG, 3 March 2020.

  1. Osgood

    Osgood Western Thunderer

    Time for a quick comfort break and some adverts?


    Taken from Commercial Motor magazine's 1952 Commercial Vehicle Show Earls Court supplement.
    Last edited: 28 March 2020
  2. Osgood

    Osgood Western Thunderer

    There’s even an advert relating to your broken prop shaft anecdote!

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  3. The picture of Oldham 368 reminds me of the time when I was a member of the society that first preserved it. Easter 1968 (or maybe 67, I forget) we set off on a tour in it that was intended to visit much of the south. It was meant to go as far as Reading; we got to Stone. I recall a PMT fitter saying (during a pit stop somewhat to the north of there, when we had already started limping) that they had some **** rubbish, but this thing beat the band.

    On a more joyous note, the Ashton fleet always seemed to be turned out smartly. I think maybe second to Stockport in the area. Manchester buses looked superb when new, or newly painted, but were dull as a very dull thing within weeks.
  4. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Brian, interesting to read your comments about 368. The brand new Crossley were paraded in neighboring Manchester, but hey quickly ended up working the V and 4 Circular route, apparently because they passed the garage every half hour in case they broke down! Oldham's earliest examples just ran in the rush-hour, which is why some retained their fully lined out livery into the 1960's. Fleet Nos 303 and 308 were horrors and no one would touch either!

    I didn't mention the Daimlers. With so few, Oldham's drivers weren't used to the pre-selector gearbox. I had to climb into the cab of one near Werneth Park to help the driver (nursing a scarred shin) push the selector peddle back into the floor! Some received engines from withdrawn Birmingham buses and John Holmes suggested the Brummie chrome radiator be fitted as well so that crew's could identify the converted buses. They ran so well that we didn't mind having them all day.

    Incidentally, you couldn't just drop a Crossley body onto a Daimler chassis and expect it to fit. A post-war Daimler's front bulkhead was further forward than on a Crossley chassis, so it was adjacent to the mudguard. This meant reducing the length of the body at the cab end. The reduced length of the cab side window is readily apparent as is the re-positioned drivers footstep....
    WEB Bus 78A.jpg

    Crossley 368 on an organised tour...
    WEB Bus 78B.jpg
    Last edited: 28 March 2020
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  5. JimG

    JimG Western Thunderer


    I'm thoroughly enjoying this thread. I am no bus expert and only have fairly dim memories of knocking around West Dumbartonshire Central SMT buses in my childhood - Leyland, Albion and Guy if I remember correctly. Local travel was all on bus, living on a post-war housing scheme a mile and a half away from the town centre and travel to Glasgow was split between bus and train depending on where we were going. Key seats were top, front. But when we got to Glasgow, further travel up there was on the trams and I can't ever remember being on a Glasgow Corporation bus.

    Later when working in Glasgow and commuting by motor cycle, on my dawn shifts, I would always travel up Dumbarton Road past the Albion works at Scotstoun so that I could get a No.9 tram if the bike broke down. :):)

    Also brings back nice memories of Steve Stratten's MRC

    Up there with Mickoo's crane thread. :):):):):)

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  6. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Thanks Jim. I trust you are now doing alright. I made the most of a 2-week holiday on a post-war housing development in Clydebank circa 1955 riding on Glasgow's older type trams, so it must have been great having all year round access.
  7. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    There are some nice photos in this thread Larry - not only interesting from the subject matter but also the details in the background of areas long swept away by town planners.

    Very useful if modelling this time period.
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  8. 76043

    76043 Western Thunderer

    I hadn't realised Crossley was part of the ACV group. I wonder if there was any badge engineering going on or whether they were independent engineering wise?
  9. Osgood

    Osgood Western Thunderer

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  10. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Rochdale, north of Oldham, was just another municipal bus operator when the photo below was taken of a Leyland TD4c in the mid 1930's blue livery. BDK 355 was on the No. 9 route to Hathershaw, not Ashton you will note, as the service from Hathershaw into Ashton was by ancient looking trolleybuses at that time....
    WEB Bus 79.jpg

    Then in 1937, the new General Manager, Mr. Cherry, introduced a striking new livery that became the hallmark of Rochdale. The first bus delivered during Arnold Cherry's reign was this AEC Regent I Fleet No. 122 in 1935. It is shown carrying the streamline livery in the early 1950's. Compare this 5-bay English Electric body with the ancient looking EE 6-bay variant that Oldham continued to buy until 1937....
    WEB Bus 80.jpg

    The sleek post-war AEC's were a familiar sight on the longish Ashton route even in my late teens. This is one of the Weymann bodied batch delivered in 1949. The nearside lower deck swoop was done away with later, and the blue taken along the bonnet side and across the cab front....
    WEB Bus 81.jpg

    This rear view shows the externally mounted indicator box. This bus has a replacement emergency window.....
    WEB Bus 82.jpg

    I first spotted one of these 8' wide Regents with East Lancs body around 1951 at this very spot in Ashton. I just had to ride it! The conductor, however, had other ideas and told me to get on the bus in front. He went for a cup of tea so I climbed aboard once the bus in front had departed! Little did I know at the time that I would spend many early mornings in Ashton's canteen in the building on the right while on workmen turns.
    WEB Bus 83.jpg

    This Regent V had just arrived at Ashton and would stay here outside the fire station until it could move onto the stand across the road ready for the return to Rochdale. I spent many happy time in Mr.Billiard's tea shop (on the right) watching the buses coming and going before choosing my prey either to Hyde or back home to Oldham...
    WEB Bus 84.jpg

    Rochdale threw it all away in November 1961 when it adopted all over cream with Lark blue trim in place of Monastral blue. Cost-cutting measures were nothing new in the greater Manchester area, but Rochdale's ice cream van livery looked very much over the top in an area where buses were difficult enough to keep clean especially in Winter.
    WEB Bus 85.jpg
    Last edited: 29 March 2020
  11. Al Tait

    Al Tait Western Thunderer

    Some very nice and interesting models. However I wonder if any of you good people could direct me to a source of 1/43 buses from more the late 80's/early 90's era, maybe something like a Leyland Naitonal or Atlantean - I am not that up on buses I'm afraid but fancy something that could be painted either in Strathcylde PTE or Edinburgh Lothian colours. I am seriously considering an Atlas Editions RT to re-paint in Lothian colours but its not quite the right version and is really too early for my use. I know Steve Beatie does a kit for the Leyland National but at £65 and looking at the resin castings looks rather rough.
  12. Osgood

    Osgood Western Thunderer

    Last edited: 29 March 2020
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  13. Peter

    Peter Western Thunderer

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  14. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Bury lay to the west of Rochdale and I while didn't see much the corporation buses, I drove a secondhand one for a year. A Leyland PD3 was in the Crossley Omnibus society 'fleet' at Greenfield belonging to a nice young woman. Below, the AEC Regent I with Roe bodywork is from a byegone era. It originally had a staircase at the front as well as the back and carried crimson lake and cream livery. It was rebuilt for further use in the early post-war era and turned out in the new green & cream....

    WEB Bus 38D.jpg

    Leyland Titans were popular with most Lancashire municipalities before the war. This is one of Bury's examples with Northern Counties body.....
    WEB Bus 38E.jpg

    Below is GEN208, one of the 'stars' of Bury's fleet with rear-entrance Weymann bodies on Leyland PD3 30' chassis. The livery after the war was pale green and cream with dark green mudguards as carried here...
    WEB Bus 86.jpg

    They passed to SELNEC in 1969 and received the Dayglow orange and ivory livery. Oswyn Blythin of Gold Star Line, St. Asaph, bought GEN 222 and phoned me to look it over. Repainting was simply a case of painting over the orange with Gold Star's blue. I drove this bus on school runs for the year it was in service. Pictured here awaiting front wheel step rings (see below) ...
    WEB Bus 86B.jpg

    John Holmes too this picture in Rhuddlan while I was on that route. As a result, he kindly donated two front wheel step rings a few weeks later to finish off the appearance...
    WEB Bus 86C.jpg
    Last edited: 30 March 2020
  15. Al Tait

    Al Tait Western Thunderer

    Yep, still a bit early, but thanks anyway!
  16. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Further east still was Bolton Corporation. I saw their buses while training on Bolton MPD in 1960, but the livery of dark shade of maroon struck me as depressing. I bought the EFE TD1 open-staircase model nevertheless....

    WEB Bus 93.jpg

    "Come and see what I have bought", beckoned Oswyn B., the chap I drove for part-time. It was another bus from SELNEC, this time an ex.Bolton Transport Leyland PD3 with Metro-Cammell full-front body, air brakes and a semi-automatic gearbox. I loved driving this bus second only to our elderly Oxford AEC Regent and so UBN 912 became my regular bus for the next 12 months replacing the ex. Bury GEN 222 . It still carried SELNEC orange when I took this photo the day after its arrival in North Wales...
    WEB Bus 87.jpg

    It was accompanied by some ex.Salford Leyland PD2's to give us some modern buses for the school runs. WRJ 151-188 had been among the first Leyland PD2's delivered to Salford in 1963. They had front entrance doors and did the job even if not excitingly!
    WEB BUS 90.jpg

    The Bolton and Salford buses at Abergele Ysgol Emrys Ap Iwan during a blizzard....
    WEB Bus 92B.jpg

    This is how I remember Salford City Transport buses ......Polished dark green Daimlers with shortened radiator cowl's. a Salford specialty To my mind it was an utterly boring fleet despite the various body styles to be seen in 1959....
    WEB Bus 91.jpg

    If one was lucky, they would see and hear the lovely tones of Salford's pre-war AEC Regent on driver-training duty....
    WEB Bus 92.jpg
    Last edited: 31 March 2020
  17. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    This glimpse of buses around Manchester's northern satellite towns will finally look at Manchester City Transport buses starting with the TD1 with Strachen piano front body, the first 'modern ' buses to enter service with MCT. Beside it is a Crossley bodied version I converted to a Crossley Condor after receiving a diesel engine and corresponding radiator in October 1935.

    WEB Bus 94.jpg

    The additional lower deck window was added with black gloss paint. It was rebodied in the 1930's and was withdrawn in March 1946....
    WEB Bus 93E.jpg

    Leyland Tiger TS2 registration VR 5996 was new in 1930. It became an Ambulance in April 1940 and reinstated as a bus in 1945 for three years. Between April 1950 and May 1962, it served as a bus crew canteen at Cannon Street which I used when working the joint 59 route from Shaw via Oldham to Manchester.....
    WEB Bus 93D.jpg

    These later Crossleys were quite attractive although some of them I saw looked as if the bonnet sloped backwards. This one is at Hollinwood, the boundary with Oldham shortly after the war....
    WEB Bus 94B.jpg
    Last edited: 2 April 2020
  18. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Before leaving the pre-war buses, here are some scale drawings I did in the 1990's. The body below represents Manchester's standard design Metro Cammell bodies with grills above the lower deck windows. This one is shown on a Leyland TD3 chassis....
    WEB Bus 99.jpg WEB Bus 99B.jpg

    Some bodies were finished in Manchester's Car Works, and some had Metro Cammell frames assembled by Crossley . This drawing shows the main visual difference were the vents in the eaves panel above the lower deck. The bus in this instance is a Crossley Standard. Note the distance between the front mudguard and the bulkhead in part caused by Crossleys slightly longer wheelbase...
    WEB Bus 99C.jpg
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  19. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    It's been an enlightening bus journey around this area Larry - especially the number of coach builders around then compared to today.

    Will it be buses from the right side of the Pennines next. :)
  20. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Sorry no. I saw Huddersfield's wartime Daimlers in 1950 while there for a couple days with relatives, and I have fond memories of Halifax, Bradford and Leeds vehicles, but no in-depth knowledge. West Yorks (and the Eastern Region of BR) was my friend the late John Fozard's territory.