David Andrews 7mm Stanier 2 6 4 tank.

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by P A D, 9 February 2019.

  1. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Paul,
    I've used a product called "Shiny Sinks" in the past, but my local supermarket no longer stocks it. It came in a blue plastic container as opposed to the "Hob Bright" in the same container but orange. They looked and smelt the same and I'm convinced they were the same product. They are basically a pumice dispersion in a surfactant blend and there are similar products like Cif. They all clean very well but the fine abrasive (pumice) is a devil to rinse off and clings to solder either where there is an excess or along seams.

    Any way I didn't have much time today, but made a quick check to see if after adding the side tank brackets, it would still be possible to remove the boiler. The brackets are laminated from two etches and I used a 0.8mm drill shank to align them during soldering. The two reamost ones were then soldered to the tank top fittings and the middle and forward ones to the boiler via a butt joint. The other ends just locate onto the spigots on the top of the tank fixings.

    After removing the screws holding the firebox to the cab front and the smoke box to the saddle, the boiler unit can be lifted out. The butt joints holding the brackets to the boiler are not very strong and it won't take much of a knock to remove them. However, now that I've established that removal is possible, I'll make some additional fixings to fit under the brackets to make a more robust joint. As can be seen the two rearmost brackets, remain on the tanks when the boiler if removed

  2. Focalplane

    Focalplane Western Thunderer


    A bit late in the build to ask this question, but it dawned on me that the kit has a lot of nickel silver - was this one of David's optional nickel silver kits? I seem to remember that you could pay a premium (10 or 15%?) and have all NS etches. Finney7 offer the same option (+10%) for all nickel silver etches. I was tempted and sometimes wish I had been, usually after burning a finger or two from the super heat-conducting brass!

    I have built one all NS kit, the MOK 14xx. It went together extremely well and the fact I used too much solder didn't matter so much as the colours are very similar and the solder didn't shout out (particularly in a de-saturated B&W image!)

    BR Tony and 3 LINK like this.
  3. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    As far as I'm concerned there's no contest - in the price of a kit the small overhead for nickel-silver it worth every single penny without a shadow of doubt.
    BR Tony and 3 LINK like this.
  4. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Paul,
    It must be the lighting in the photos as the kit is all brass (apart from the bunker floor and running plate valances) for the upper works and nickel silver for the chassis. I bought it second hand unmade from a friend so I don't know if at the time of purchase if David Andrews was still offering kits in nickel silver as an option. Other than the fact that it dirties more easily than nickel silver, I don't mind working in brass, so would be unlikely to pay a premium for it. Of course, as you say, it does have the advantage of not showing the solder but on the MOK 4MT recently completed, I did not find it easier to solder for example, than the brass Finney A3 built just before it . Others view it differently as mentioned by Adrian, but each to their own.
    Last edited: 17 April 2019
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  5. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    After a two week break, I got back to the bench today. In the interim, the bogie spring and axlebox castings arrived from Sans Pariel. I've bought two sets as I have a Stanier Mogul from Gladiator to do later and the springs are incorrect in that as well.

    In the end I have retained the white metal axleboxes and only used the springs and hangers. There's not enough metal on the axleboxes to ream them out to fit over the axle bushes. The hangers were too short as well, so I cut them off, drilled the springs and shackles, and replaced the hangers with brass rod. Here they are in place, with one of the other set and the original springs below. I have also added the rear stretcher plate and will make further details later.

    And with the wheels on. The shackles are clearly visible so it's worth the effort to replace them.

    The coupling rods have been laminated in preparation for getting the chassis running.

    At the rear end I have added the missing grab rail, footsteps and tank vents inside the bunker. I still need to remove the excess solder around the vents.

    Most of the boiler detail is now in place and the boiler can be removed via screws to ease painting and lining. The smokebox ring is fixed but I have still to fit the hand rail and lamp bracket to the door before that goes on. The handrails have been made by are only pushed into the holes for now. The stops on the ends have been added using brass tube.

    The chimney, dome and top feed have now been epoxied in place and the various tank top fittings added.

    In the cab, the pick up domes have also been epoxied in place. I have left the cab doors and inserts for now, as I have recently found a very nice photo of the cab rear bulkhead showing the details. It would have been easier to add them earlier but I was not sure of the positioning.

    This is the photo I came across on Roger Scanlon's thread. I believe it was posted by Mickoo and is the cab rear of a Stanier 2 6 2. The fitting shown are all on 2500, but I could not get onto the footplate to take a photo head on. I'm sure they would be the same on the the big 2 cylinder tank so I will scratch something up and epoxy them in place.

    Here is the boiler removed from the body. The forward fixing brackets are soldered to the boiler and the rear ones to the tank tops.

    To make them more robust, I drilled holes underneath into the boiler and soldered short lengths of 0.9mm rod to support the brackets. When the boiler is placed in the body, the holes in the brackets drop onto the spigots fixed to the tanks and the rear brackets just butt up against the firebox.

    Here's a view showing the detail on the other side.

    And a head on view with smoke box door pushed in place.

    And a couple of shots on the chassis.



    Attached Files:

    Last edited: 12 April 2019
  6. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    Did the bunker top footsteps vary between the 2 and 3 cylinder locos?

    The models show the foot steps resting on the bunker top bracketswhereas the 3 cylinder loco had a hanging bracket and turned up step sides (photo in post#3).
    BR Tony likes this.
  7. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Dave,
    Yes they varied. Some of the 3 cylinder locos had an even longer version of the footstep on the model, running most of the bunker length. The step on mine is correct.
    BR Tony likes this.
  8. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Hi Dave,
    Looking closer at your photo in post 3, there are a number of other differences.

    • Only one grab rail low down on the bunker rear.
    • Different tank vents in the bunker.
    • Cylindrical cranked vents with mushroom top on the tanks about half way along. Mine has rectangular section ones in front of the cab.
    Standardisation came much later to UK railways. Or did it? :rolleyes:
    BR Tony likes this.
  9. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    A brief spell at the bench this afternoon saw the crank pin bushes prepared for fitting. The ones for the front and middle wheels have been drilled out 1.4mm and tapped 10 BA. There will be two bushes each side on the middle wheels to accomodate the connecting rod and for fitting the return crank. The front ones will be fit in reverse with a washer on the inside to clear the slide bars (I hope) so have had two holes drilled to allow tightening with a pair of tweezers or something similar. The rear ones will be left as they come with 12 BA fittings.
    I see there is some cleaning of the steel parts required before fitting.
  10. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    I see someone else re-purposes nail polishing files.....
    BR Tony likes this.
  11. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    They are really good for polishing ivory handles on old ruling pens when restoring drawing instruments.
    BR Tony and Deano747 like this.
  12. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    I decided to get the smokebox door on before pressing on with the running gear. Here's how I make the end stops for the handrails. First the rail is soldered to the pillars and is longer than required. Two short lengths (again longer than required) of 0.7mm ID tube are cut ready for soldering to the handrail, which as yet is not fixed to the door.

    The tubing is then positioned as required and soldered in place.

    I then snip the tube about 1mm or so from the inner edge and then file and polish to finish. The one on the right is just snipped and the left one is finished.

    There are other ways of doing it but this works for me. Here's the door in place after the rail, lamp iron and dart handles were added. 20190415_221530.jpg

    And on to the chassis. The crank pin bushes for the front wheels were filed to length, but the rear one were just the right length with the bosses being quite chunky. I'm pleased to say it runs perfectly without any further fettling. 20190415_221610.jpg


    Here are the slidebars and crossheads part fettled. I cannot us the LG castings that the original owner bought as they are not correct for this prototype. I'll post a photo later to show the difference. 20190415_221448.jpg

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  13. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Here's a comparison of the DA crosshead and slide bars compared to the Laurie Griffin castings . They would be good for the Fairburn 2 6 4 , Ivatt 2 6 2 and /2 6 0, but not the correct pattern for Stanier's big tanks.

    This afternoon I got the slidebars onto the cylinders and attached the connecting rod to the crosshead. This was done with a standard nut fitting on the prototype, so I used a 14BA nut and bolt. A quick trial in the frames with the slidebar/motion bracket shows all is well and free running. The connecting rod will need bushing to separate if from the coupling rod and I think there are some suitable washers in with the nuts and bolts in the kit.

    The upper hole in the crosshead had to be drilled out and attacked with a burr to open it up, but the lowere one will be covered by the drop link. I have yet to clean up the rear of the cylinders after fixing the slidebars, and the relief valves need fitting.


    A quick check with the body on and all seems well.


    Attached Files:

    Last edited: 17 April 2019
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  14. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    To the uninitiated which one's which?
    BR Tony and Number Cruncher like this.
  15. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    LG's on the left, DA's on the right.
    BR Tony and Number Cruncher like this.
  16. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Here we have the slidebar bracket, connecting rod/crosshead and the cylinder relief valves. On the real thing the base of the valve is recessed in the rear cylinder cover, so to emulate this I sawed the spigot off and then reduced the thickness of the base with the file. The drop links have been added to the crossheads after first cranking them to look nearer to the prototype. The instructions show them fit in the flat, dropping straight down.

    Here the relief valves have been soldered to the rear cover

    At the front of the cylinders I have used the LG cast covers that the original owner bought with the kit. The kit ones are OK but the LG castings come with the relief valves cast in so it saved me a job. The valve covers are supplied in the kit and I was able to solder them on the inside with 145 which saved time on cleaning up.

    Test fit in the frames show that the relief valves don't foul the cross head or drop link.

    I'm leaving the slidebar bracket loose until I get the valve guides on.


    John Johnson, Ian_C, BR Tony and 18 others like this.
  17. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    This afternoon I got the return cranks fitted. First I tightened the outer bush, then marked where the crank should point. A small groove was cut into the base of the bush with the piercing saw and this is then lined up with the center line scribed on the inner face of the crank. The rear of the crank has a half etched center recess and this was opened up with a 1.6mm drill to allow the rounded end of a 10BA steel bolt to sit in it to center the bush for soldering. The rough edge over the center recess was smoothed before the bush was fitted.

    Here's the bush lined up by the bolt ready for soldering. I used Carr's 240 solder for this as I believe it gives a stronger joint as it has to withstand the torque involved in tightening the crank/bush on to the crank pin bolt.

    Here they are after soldering. To space the connecting rod from the coupling rod, I made a bush from a turned and filed 8BA nut drilled 2.5mm to clear the crank pin bush. These were soldered to the inner face of the connecting rod as this makes fitting and removing easier.

    And in place on the chassis.

    T'other side. 20190418_201810.jpg

    Here the spacing between the rods can be seen. It's a bit more than the prototype, but it keeps the rods parallel. The coupling rod joint should have a washer behind the nut so I'll be re-doing that later.

    I found this shouldered 6BA bolt in the hardware box, so to save making one for the pony truck, I added a washer to the bolt and to the upper face of the truck pivot point. I found two and I have no idea where they came from. Worked out a treat.

    Some views with the body on.

    When I get to fitting the union link I'll be taking care to ensure that the top edge does not foul the running plate, as Roger Scanlon mentioned that he had a problem in this area with his build. Thanks to Roger for the heads up on that.

    Looks like the front edge of the top feed cover needs pressing down. Strange what you don't see in the flesh, that is blindingly obvious in a photo! The roof is only placed for the photo and at some stage I'll need to give thought as to how to fit it securely while being able to remove it for painting.

    Ian_C, BR Tony, mswjr and 23 others like this.
  18. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    A little bit more progress has been made on the valve gear. I've got the valve spindle crossheads, combination levers, union links and drop links fastened together with 0.8mm NS rod, as well as fitting the valve slides. Oil pipes have been added from 0.4 mm copper wire and the fork joins added to the radius rods.

    The oil pipes have been anchored to the top and back of the cylinder etch. The excess solder is still to be cleaned off.


    A quick check in the frames showed no clearance issues. I wonder if I can add the cotter pin to the the crosshead/piston rod joint???

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  19. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    Like most kits, the expansion link/radius rod are designed for setting in mid gear, so I modified the expansion link to set the motion in forward gear. The upper pair show the original position that the radius rod is fixed in the expansion link, with an extra hole drilled lower down for setting in forward gear. The lower pair have been pinned together and brass washers soldered either side of the fixing hole to center the link in the mounting brackets. 20190424_183938.jpg

    Here's the right hand side set up to check clearance and running. Note that I have added the oil reservoir to the bottom of the combination lever and the cotter pin to the crosshead/piston rod joint. Apologies for the poor image quality.

    A quick check with the body in place shows that I have the same problem with the top of the expansion link fouling the valance, that Roger Scanlon encountered on his build. It should pass inside the valance but I wonder if David Andrews designed in some extra clearance for the slide bars and which sets the valve gear further away from the frames. Taking it down and correcting will be the first job at the next session. The 10BA screw head will be filed smooth when everything is hunky dory.

  20. P A D

    P A D Western Thunderer

    To get the clearance for the expansion link to clear the valance, I decided to reduce the height. First I soldered a strip of waste etch under the top of the link.

    Looking from the front the waste etch added at the bottom of the link can also be seen. As if comes in the kit, the link is open ag the bottom.

    The added strip at the top was snipped and filed smooth and the top of the link was then filed to reduce its height.

    The kit provides alternative options for the eccentric rod. I've chosen the upper one with oil reservoir on the boss. I cut the small end off the spare ones and soldered it to the inside of the small end on the eccentrics, to take up the slack where they join the expansion link.

    Here's the left hand links ready for joining.

    And with the return crank, washers, nut and 0.8mm NS rod.

    And joined up ready for fitting.

    Here are some views of the assembled valve gear and cylinders.



    The valve gear separates at the end of the radius rods/lifting links to allow removal from the frames. The lifting links and weight shaft remain in the frames. This is the lef hand side with the reversing crank attached to the weight shaft. The reversing rod is still to be added, but to be honest it's not visible with the body on.


    Here's the valve gear mounted in the frames.

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