Layouts With Limited Motive Power

John Duffy

Western Thunderer
We are fortunate on this forum to see the creative output from a number of great modellers. There are some stunning layouts currently being built or displayed and many of these are smaller in nature, with limited scope for running multiple locomotives or a huge variety of stock. My own work, whilst not small in terms of physical area, represents a small, quiet station in a rural setting on a branch line with limited traffic.

What then are the thoughts of forum members regarding seeing these types of layouts? Do you mind seeing the same stock appear regularly, or does that get too repetitive? I'm conscious myself of using only two locomotives and at the moment having only a single coach passenger train. Perhaps different for a layout that is in development as you can see the progress that is being made, but what of a "finished" layout (if such a thing exists), do you mind seeing the same loco in different settings?

We have seen the rise of the cameo layout, which when viewed at an exhibition can be studied for a time and then we generally move on. We have had the development of how best to display these layouts with fascias, arches and lighting etc all playing a part. The operation though is unlikely to get repetitive as we probably won't stand and watch the layout for a very lengthy period. Even when we do, it might be the same little engine with a couple of different wagons. This seems fine when watching a layout live, but does this transfer to a couple of photos? With the extensive use of the online community, we are increasing viewing our railways electronically and can of course browse back whenever we wish. How do we make the best use of this to display the very fine work that is being produced without it ever appearing "samey?"

A forum such as this is one of the main ways for a builder of a layout - especially those in a fixed location - to publicly display their work, so I suppose the question should be, how best to do this? What do people like or prefer? What do you like to see? What doesn't work so well? Are there any pet hates?

I'm really interested to hear the thoughts of those, like me, who enjoy seeing work displayed on this forum and are keen to see modellers make the best use of it.

John
 

Alan

Western Thunderer
I honestly think it doesn't matter, at times I get bored of thinking on no not another A4/A2 etc on a rather large ECML layout on the other side. As you may know my layout Blakeney will have a maximum of 2 lococ, one carriage and an assortment of about 8 or 10 wagons. I build for myself, if others are interested brilliant if not does it matter. We all contribute in our own way.
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
Hi John,

This forum - any forum - is the sum of the members' contributions. If people shy away from posting, then the forum is lessened.

I don't think there should be any form of prescriptive format. It is for each individual to post what they wish, as they wish, in the form they wish.

All contributions are valued, and sure, there may be an element of similarity, but this applies to top quality models too. There have been duplicate builds of top-end models - Bulleid Light Pacific, Adams' Radial and T3, Armstrong 4-4-0 and others, but everyone has their own take and will have different issues to overcome. We all gain from having access to different approaches even on the same subject.

So, display your work; there will always be something to gain, both by you and those viewing, and it all adds to the forum community.

Richard
 

John Duffy

Western Thunderer
Hi John,

This forum - any forum - is the sum of the members' contributions. If people shy away from posting, then the forum is lessened.

I don't think there should be any form of prescriptive format. It is for each individual to post what they wish, as they wish, in the form they wish.

All contributions are valued, and sure, there may be an element of similarity, but this applies to top quality models too. There have been duplicate builds of top-end models - Bulleid Light Pacific, Adams' Radial and T3, Armstrong 4-4-0 and others, but everyone has their own take and will have different issues to overcome. We all gain from having access to different approaches even on the same subject.

So, display your work; there will always be something to gain, both by you and those viewing, and it all adds to the forum community.

Richard

Richard that is not at all what is being suggested. I am asking peoples opinions, because I think is worthwhile finding out what people think and what others like. Nowhere do I suggest there should be prescription or restrictions, quite the contrary.

I was hoping to open up a discussion, not shut one down.

John
 

Focalplane

Western Thunderer
When I finally found the "Railway Room with house attached" I started out on a simple single line layout based on Penmaenpool in Central Wales. The idea was to have storage sidings off scene that would allow a larger number of trains to run a more typical Saturday Only summer timetable during the 1950s. I soon realized, and was prompted by LarryG, that operations might not be as satisfying as I had anticipated. Penmaenpool did have an engine shed but only one siding in the goods yard, so shunting had to be done using the main line. Therefore some light engine movements but only one train each way every prototype hour.

So the concept was changed to a much busier prototype and I have not looked back. What has this to do with the thoughts of the OP? Well, I suppose there are several factors:
  1. The new layout seems to get more complex as it progresses, additional sidings, a loco turning area, working traversers, etc. It's coming together slowly but I have had to add a few paragraphs at the beginning of the layout thread to explain that some of the work done has been changed in the course of time.
  2. Research has demonstrated that the same layout can be used for several timetables - in this case, regular commuter trains, night time produce to market trains and, potentially, summer Saturday specials. Such widely different operations would need a wider variety of locos and trains which would have to be replaced by hand due to lack of storage sidings. That surely is a parallel to the conundrum of the small one or two loco layouts. A simple branch terminus could run different era trains at different times, for example.
  3. My work so far demonstrates that it pays to be flexible in one's approach and not stay rigid to an original design that may be prototypical but is not going to give enough satisfaction to the builder.
My layout, as it is chronicled, must be frustrating to some. Poor SimonD looks like he will have to wait until hell freezes over before the traversers are completed. I get sidetracked far to easily and when on a roll things suddenly stop for no apparent reason. Loco kits are started and then shelved for a month or two or more before being picked up again. But it's my layout!

I agree with Dikitriki in all he has written. My own paltry efforts have improved no end by the work of those who share what they do so well on WT.

Paul

PS I have just read John's comment above, added while I was typing. I hope this is OK?
 

GrahameH

Western Thunderer
I build for myself, if others are interested brilliant if not does it matter. We all contribute in our own way.

I for one am in total agreement with Alan in what he says.

So, display your work; there will always be something to gain, both by you and those viewing, and it all adds to the forum community.

May I ask what the OP would like to see ?

With a forum such as WT, or any other ( to a certain degree ) I feel we would be much poorer for our modelling.

Whilst some may only use a forum to glimpse others work it also can be a great springboard for others to "up their game". Whether that means producing a small layout for whatever you enjoy or having the room to run a mainline scene it should be for personal enjoyment and betterment of the hobby.

Those wishing too share, me included to a lesser degree, find words of encouragement through the forum to be useful in times of either lack of enthusiasm or dismay when a something doesn't go as planned.

Not all of us wish to take a layout "on the road" and get satisfaction from whichever aspect of modelling a railway we choose to follow.

I have followed one layout in particular, Sherton Abbas by Dave Stone, which has led me to build in 7mm and I am grateful for his Blog entries over on the other channel. It has been seen at several exhibitions now and also received an award, deservedly so in my opinion.

Maybe some exhibition layouts aren't built for a "stand and watch" but surely one should give credit to the builder / builders of them for taking them out for others to see, and possibly be inspired by what they see ?

I am currently working on my first small O Gauge layout, yes, its GWR, yes, there are locos and wagons and a few coaches which may have been seen on other layouts but the one overriding factor is that I am getting a great deal of satisfaction, either from scratch building, making kits or using proprietary items to create what suits me.

The Cameo challenge set by my friend Iain certainly seems to have captured some peoples imagination and I am pleased that it has, purely from watching some excellent work being produced and displayed. That said, is it totally necessary to have a suitcase full of stock to run on these ?
Surely in modelling terms alone they are worth taking time to look at with the added addition of a loco/ stock running in from stage left or wherever.

If, and its a big if, I displayed my work here in photographs how many would I post to satisfy those who want to see what I have done without it looking "samey" as the OP asks ?
I don't seem to get bored by some repetitive shots ( yeah I'm bit odd that way ! ) and I am sure we all look for photographs, whether taken on a mobile phone or an all singing all dancing camera in posts to show progress or otherwise.

Or are we one of those who enjoy the feel of an armchair ? :eek:

When all said and done ...... does it really matter so long as we enjoy modelling in whatever form it takes ?

G
 
Last edited:

Overseer

Western Thunderer
I have some experience exhibiting a small layout based on a relatively obscure prototype and another not so small but with very simple track plan and very obscure prototype, as well as operating large roundy roundy club layouts. I have found I get similar responses to both my layouts from the public at exhibitions, basically people with an interest in, and knowledge of, the prototype are very positive, the 'general public' make lots of appreciative comments, and mainstream modellers just don't get it at all and walk on by. The blinkered view of some modellers can be amusing to observe - if its not blue diesels, or 50s steam, or green diesels etc they aren't interested. I think the wide range of quality modelling we get to see on WT is one of the real strengths that keeps me coming back, even when I can't get any modelling done myself.

On the limited motive power question, I don't think only having a few locomotives is a problem for exhibition visitors. You need to have reliable motive power to keep things moving and a back up or two. But I find operating the same loco or two all day, especially shunting, can become monotonous for the operator so I like to have guest locos available for an occasional run during quieter times, even if completely inappropriate for the layout. It starts other conversations with viewers. Thinking about it, having only a few locos on a small layout is no different to a larger layout running prototypically correct locos and trains which all look alike to the 'general public'. To use a GW example, we might recognise the differences between a King, a Castle, a Hall etc but to the mother pushing a pram they probably all look the same as do the rakes of brown and cream coaches.

I build models because I want to. If other people enjoy seeing them that is a bonus but for me the satisfaction mostly comes from the actual making of shapes and things. Having them move adds a whole extra level not available to some of the other modelling disciplines.
 

Roger Pound

Western Thunderer
This may or may not be considered completely relevant to the question posed, but my own 'stay-at-home' layout, which is a mere 12' x 2' overall and is purely freelance regarding location, requires and indeed has, limited locomotives and rolling stock. I am not a builder of locomotives, but can manage the odd plastic kit or two , preferring however to buy rtr stock and devoting my few skills to creating the scene. Thus there is the potential for monotony in the naturally limited operation on such a small system. However, if I may offer a solution, which I have found acceptable for myself and may be a thought for some other people.

Incorporate a change of time frame or era, call it what you will, in to your operation. It unleashes several potentials, such as more locos and stock for one.......;)!

I have my favoured era firmly in the mid 1930's, featuring the LMS. Loco stock is of two types, three pieces - two are obviously the same class. Rolling stock is all freight , about twelve units. The scenic section of the layout is so designed that when boredom sets in, I can move forward in time and operate solely green diesels and BR goods stock, which I also have at my disposal. I can also change road vehicles and people but such items as signage have to be carefully thought out at the building stage to avoid incongruity in either era. OK, call me weird, but that is how I get my fun from this hobby and avoid boredom.

Naturally, none of the foregoing is particularly suited to the exhibitionist and his layout, but my layout is fixed as stated above. Like Mr Duffy, find great interest in the layouts on this and other fora. One can always see, admire and learn from the modelling exploits of one's peers and at the age of eighty-two I am still learning about all aspects of our hobby day by day. My best hope is that I am allowed to have many more days to keep on learning :)!
 

paulc

Western Thunderer
Hi Northwood (no name so sorry), what scale is your 12ft x 2ft layout . No criticism intended but when i read your post it was the first thing i thought of .
CheersPaul
 

Roger Pound

Western Thunderer
Hello Paul,

Scale is 0 gauge, (7mm). The layout is currently 'resting' for the winter as it is in an unheated garage. Come the warmer weather, or even a warm spell, a drastic rebuild with new track is scheduled, but that story is not appropriate to this thread so I'll leave it there.

Thanks for your interest,
Roger.
 

NHY 581

Western Thunderer
To throw my woolly hat into the ring, perhaps a few thoughts of my own.

At present, I have two layouts on the go, which I also exhibit.



Mutton is inspired by Combpyne on the Lyme Regis branch, a long time favourite branch line of mine.
Therefore, the Ex-L&SWR Lamb Regis branch has Mutton as it's intermediate station. Main reason for building such a layout was in order to run Adams Radials and I have four, courtesy of Hornby.
When I exhibit Mutton, I use all four, late and early crest 30583, early crest 30584 and early crest 30582. This would roughly place the layout around 195 early 1960....ish.....give or take..

I also take along a 700 and am in the process of tweaking a T9. The later two clearly never ran on the real Lyme branch but are available if I fancy a change.

I also take along two coaches, each being used to provide two passenger services. I take roughly 20 assorted wagons to provide a goods working but in reality only need ten as a maximum.

More often than not though, I simply use the Radial on all services. Visitors to the exhibitions understand what I'm up to and many a discussion takes place around the Radials.

My other layout is Bleat Wharf, a goods only layout firmly set on the S&DJR Bleatwater branch in Somerset.
I find I am far more disciplined with this layout and run the service with a 4F and 3F tender loco though a Jinty is available. The same twenty or so assorted wagons travel. They are better utilised than on Mutton, simply because I make up two workings with a few decorating the yard.


I think by limiting the motive power on a layout at an exhibition, it makes it more readily recognisable to the visitor and sets the tone.........but like I said in opening the post, these are my thoughts.

I am very far away from being a 'fine scale modeller' and I certainly do not consider myself to be particularly fastidious in my approach. I simply play trains for enjoyment but do try to take care with presentation and operation to offset any shortfall in other areas.


Rob.
 
Last edited:

John Duffy

Western Thunderer
Thanks all for answering the questions posed, there are some really interesting thoughts in this discussion. One of the reasons I asked the question is that whilst I am happy to run my layout at home with the same engine, as this would quite likely have been the case on my branch line, I do wonder if the layout thread will remain of interest to others or will it just seem repetitive?

I'm glad you took the time to reply Rob as Bleat Wharf is a personal favourite and exemplifies the type of layout I was meaning. I like your thinking that by limiting the motive power it makes the location more readily recognisable. I use a D40 for that very purpose. One of the reasons I moved away from modelling a mainline was because I felt I was churning out locos just to provide a variety of stock. You can't really just have one A3, if you saw one at a location, chances are you would see others. With a branch line, that limitation is an accepted part of operation and it does work well on Cameo layouts. I have certainly found changing my approach has been helped by a change of scale. I do like some of the ideas around changing time period in order to vary the stock on show.

I'm also seeing different styles of photographs being used to show different aspects of a layout. I wonder if we are now starting to develop layouts or adapt how we display them to suit the online environment?

John
 

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Surely railway layouts are not just about the motive power, to my mind it's about creating a scene, the stock is incidental.
There's so much more to model, on a personal note this is why I prefer an urban layout to a rural type, there's so much more that can be put into, let's face it for most of us, a compromised space.

Col.
 

NHY 581

Western Thunderer
Surely railway layouts are not just about the motive power, to my mind it's about creating a scene, the stock is incidental.
There's so much more to model, on a personal note this is why I prefer an urban layout to a rural type, there's so much more that can be put into, let's face it for most of us, a compromised space.

Col.

Agreed Col.

I am a firm believer in the thought that a visitor should be able to guess where a layout is set without any stock being present.

The appropriate stock merely confirms matters.

Rob.
 

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
...................I do like some of the ideas around changing time period in order to vary the stock on show..................



John

Agreed John, when Bow Creek gets built I have envisaged having stock to cover early & late LNER & early B.R. which gives a wide variety of stock and loco's. At a pinch I could justify late GER stock.
At aged 63 will I have time to build it all ?, that remains to be seen :rolleyes::D.. but I'll start with the LNER mid forties:thumbs:

Col
 

PMP

Western Thunderer
(snip)One of the reasons I asked the question is that whilst I am happy to run my layout at home with the same engine, as this would quite likely have been the case on my branch line, I do wonder if the layout thread will remain of interest to others or will it just seem repetitive?

(Snip)

I'm also seeing different styles of photographs being used to show different aspects of a layout. I wonder if we are now starting to develop layouts or adapt how we display them to suit the online environment?

John

The layout thread will remain of interest if the writing and images are engaging. My layouts are and have been ‘Cameo’ derivatives and get a good following and interest across different digital media platforms. Albion Yard had a heavy emphasis on the Forest of Dean, Shelfie1 is a concept/demonstration layout, and Shelfie2 takes lessons learnt from the previous two (and external influence), to early 1970’s Northumberland.
Re adaptation for the online environment specifically, I’m not sure we are seeing that,(yet). Depending on what I want to showcase will influence how I take and edit an image. The fact it’s going online is irrelevant, if I were to hand you a hard copy of any of my images, there’d be no difference between digital or hard copy image.
 
Top