Load for implement wagon

jamiepage

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
As a bit of light relief from loco building, I have started a load for my MSWJR Flat wagon No 211. I was looking for something a bit different, something that would allow a bit of colour, and if possible something that wouldn't cover up all the wagon's planking. The last was quite important because after too much effort, and a lot of advice from WTers at the time, the planking now looks quite reasonable.

I have a drawing from the MSWJR drawing office which was presumably drawn as a record of the original turntable at Swindon Town. It must have been the original installation, was tiny with a platform length of only 25ft 6in., and was surely removed during 1904/5 improvements.

IMG_0001.JPG

The drawing shows the bed to comprise a central fabrication of 17ft 6in. length, flanked with extension pieces at either end.
Dimensionally, the centre section would just fit on the flat wagon, and it would satisfy the requirements I was looking for from a load, so I have assumed the turntable was dismantled in situ and removed by rail.

It's also highly unlikely that anyone else would bother with a model of this particular turntable so it's nice to do the honours.

A session on the pantograph produced some bits for the centre section and wheel outriggers, while the main girders have been glued up from plasticard.

This photo shows the bits temporarily pushed together and plonked on the wagon (upside down) to confirm it does fit without overhanging too much.
IMG_0001.JPG

Most of the remaining structure will be added in plasticard, then rows of rivet transfers should add interest.
 
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jamiepage

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Have run out of rivet transfers, so this has been put to one side until more arrive from America.

However, could anyone please give an opinion on how this load may have been secured? I hope roping would be adequate, but if it has to be chained then so be it.
I guess the original may have weighed in the region of 3-4 ton (?).
Thank you for any ideas, precedents etc.

IMG_0001.JPG
 
Overseer

Overseer

Western Thunderer
I don't have a definitive answer regarding ropes or chains but it could be less than you would think. This is a 70' turntable being transported by road from the manufacturers premises to a nearby station yard for transfer to rail. It is a much larger turntable than yours but note there are no chains or ropes visible at all.
70 foot turntable.jpg
Also without any evidence, I think it is more likely that the turntable would be transported 'right way up' rather than upside down. It would probably have been raised using jacks and timbers, or possibly with a small crane. Either way, flipping an awkward object like this over in a yard is not easy or safe so would probably have been avoided. They would probably have built a temporary timber cradle to support the turntable on the wagon.
 
jamiepage

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
That's splendid, thank you. A few ropes just to add a bit of interest, then.
The point you make is well taken. I was driven more by the fact it would look a little more 'interesting' that way up, with the locking mechanism on show, and sort of justified it in my mind by imagining a deliberate flipping over during dismantling by crane to make it easier to take away- which was simply to send it for scrap rather than re-use.
I'm still inclined to that, and may claim licence, but the idea of a wooden cradle could also look interesting if done properly.
Thanks very much for that- food for thought.
 
Heather Kay

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
I note there's a lump of timber across the turntable over the leading trolley. It looks like ropes or chains down into the frame and to the trolley. The rear trolley is attached to the leading one.

Something that size would weigh a fair bit, and the hauliers must be relying on that to hold it down, with minimal lashing to prevent it toppling.
 
Mike W

Mike W

Western Thunderer
Trundling a long load along the street under constant watch of workers is one thing, out of sight on a train is another.

This may or may not be relevant but the LNWR had a large number of "D14 Timber Wagons" which were 24ft long with 9in sides and were what we generally refer to today as deal wagons. The design included recesses in the floor to hold the chains and shackles permanently assigned to that wagon. i.e. no ropes, only chains, and that's for relatively light weight sawn planks of timber, and with a low end to the wagon to help prevent the load sliding.

Mike
 
geoff_nicholls

geoff_nicholls

Western Thunderer
turntable3.jpg turntable2.jpg
It is at Marley Hill, the workshops of the Tanfield Railway. A booklet I bought calls it the Nostell Colliery turntable, so that's presumably where they got it from. it caught my eye as I was looking for a Sentinel loco of the same class as that being produced by John Candy
 
jamiepage

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Overseer,
could I ask another question? I'm being tempted by the idea of the bed being sat on the wagon 'right way up'. Could you describe what you envisage as a temporary timber cradle please?
Thank you.
 
G

graham thorp

Member
jamiepage said:
Overseer,
could I ask another question? I'm being tempted by the idea of the bed being sat on the wagon 'right way up'. Could you describe what you envisage as a temporary timber cradle please?
Thank you.
Click to expand...

Hi Jamie.

Not Overseer but, looking at your load for your wagon, a simple arrangement of timber baulks placed across the width with the turntable chained down on top would be more than adequate.
Even sleeper timbers cut to the right size and stacked as appropriate would be perfect. Its a very simple shape to carry and wouldn't require any great carpentry skills or effort to achieve.

G
 
jamiepage

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Graham,
Thank you for your reply. I assumed that, if right way up, to get it high enough for the centre section to be clear of the bed would require fairly substantial groups of timber baulks at both ends. Which would not be a particular problem, except I want to keep as much of the wagon's bed as clear as possible (being perhaps too pleased with the planking). This led to the idea of showing it upside down, whereby a single baulk each end would suffice.
Anyway, food for thought.
thank you
Jamie
 
Overseer

Overseer

Western Thunderer
Jamie
I agree about using sleepers to support the turntable. Presumably it would have been removed by the permanent way department who would have had access to spare sleepers so are likely to have used them. A simple stack of sleepers at each end, over the axles, to get the protruding castings just clear of the wagon deck would do the job if the turntable is chained down. I don't have access to my books at the moment but found a few images which might help explain things. One is an export tender loaded on an implement wagon with just a few timbers under each bogie centre location.
Derby crop 1997-7397_DY_2883.jpg
The other is not directly relevant as it shows an odd shaped casting on a twin bolster, but it does illustrate how little timber packing could be used plus two chains to hold the load down. The photo is at Poplar dock so presumably it had travelled some distance.
Poplar crop 1996-7310_NL_38.jpg
Both images are extracts from NRM photos.

I think it is quite plausible to mount the turntable on a stack of two or three transverse sleepers at each end, with a chain over the top of each end, so you will be able to see nearly all the wagon deck below the load.
 
jamiepage

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
That's superb thank you very much. And thanks to everyone else, as well. Upright it is, on sleepers and held with a couple of chains.
Yours
Jamie
 
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