7mm Mickoo's Workbench - Connoisseur 4F, JM LMS Garratt - Martin Finney 47xx - MoK Ivatt 4MT

Discussion in 'Area 51' started by mickoo, 8 September 2018.

  1. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    A litre :eek:

    What are you cleaning, Big Ben :p
    Deano747 likes this.
  2. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    You're so encourageable :))
    Lancastrian and simond like this.
  3. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    H38 Chassis completed, well one Vac pipe to add along the outside of the frame.

    I decided to re use the brake cylinders, filling in the slots with some scrap white metal, smoothing and then drilling new pivot holes.



    They turned out okay in the end.

    The interesting view.


    The boring view.


    Mr CCU has made a visit, a couple of the body fixing holes have been covered up by the battery and regulator boxes, one is an easy move, the other will probably result in the fixing nut being under one of the seats near the bulkhead.
  4. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    On the bright side [ pun intended! ] - explosive properties - not applicable!

    but thanks for the warning
  5. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Interior shell completed, onto the exterior next :thumbs:



  6. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    And now the exterior, once again Captain Cock Up and his merry crew visited, all my own doing it has to be said, despite meticulous planning and organization.....in short, sometimes you just have to wing it.



    Nothing wrong with the exterior...the roof is just plonked on and needs the ends trimming to match the bow ends once fitted.

    Nothing the matter with the interior...which the sharp of eye will note is now missing.

    The problem is that even with all the precision of CAD and drawings the inside did not fit inside the outside, in layman's terms the tumble did not fit past the home, well it did but stressed the top edge of the exterior skin a fraction too much for comfort.

    Even once bludgeoned inside the difference required between the two (to get the interior in) left an ugly gap between the two sides (inner/ outer), it had to go, it has gone.

    Most of the kitchen/pantry/larder walls are recoverable, the end walls/bulkheads will all need to be new, the sides will be snapped off, trimmed and cleaned up and affixed to the inner sides of the exterior; this'll give them more strength which had been an area of concern, despite the internal doubling plate fitted along the top.

    I have to confess that seeing the exterior with the roof on and the reasonable success at a uniform tumblehome generates the first sense of affiliation with the project which up to now has been, to be blunt, a tedious drudge.

    Generally speaking my mind goes blank past the rear buffers of an engine and rolling stock holds less than zero interest, in an odd perversion I find US freight rolling stock very interesting.

    Still a long way to go and there remains significant breaches in the minefield to let CCU return.
  7. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    I sympathise. I do not understand those august members of our merry throng (Larry & Heather spring to mind, but there are others I’m sure) who seem to prefer coaches to locos.

    They’re every bit as hard to build, often more difficult to paint, and you need roughly ten times as many of them.

    a necessary evil. :)

  8. chigley

    chigley Member

    would brasso work or am i talking rubbiish
  9. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    You could use Brasso but there are a couple of complications, it's hard to get in all the nooks and crannies, and if you do, even harder to get it out and cleaned effectively; Brasso is not something you want beneath your paint job.

    Brasso is good for cleaning door knobs and candle stick holders, not so good for toy trains :p other peoples mileage may vary ;)
  10. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    So, back to cleaning brass, the Horolene arrived and was duly mixed as prescribed.

    I decided to test one of the GTEL bogies with nigh on 35-40 years of tarnish.

    It started out like this, pretty grubby in all honesty.


    It went into the Horolene for a few hours, no change, not that I could be discern so decided to just leave it in there. checked again after three days, pretty much the same, pahh.

    I reasoned it might still have the factory lacquer on so decided to dip in celly thinners, woah that made things change.


    The right side is three days in Horolene, perhaps marginally cleaner in some areas, but the thinners really went to town and turned everything near black and that was only after a few hours. I couldn't scratch it off, it's much like a blacking agent....and I'll try it as just that on something else in due course. To be fair the next few tests did clean some of it back off.

    The next step was five hours in Ketchup, bahh, waste of good ketchup, then two days in Coke a Cola, again total waste of time; it must be added that in between each test, and during each test, pages of web were browsed.....not sure what the benefits of rotting sand eels were as endorsed by one orator :eek:

    The final test was a mixture of salt, baking soda, vinegar and aluminium foil....you guessed it, waste of good cooking materials and time.

    In the end it looked like this.

    Compared to the first photo it's actually got worse, I think it's safe to say that any wives tale or chemical cleaner touted by whom ever is just a load of :shit: ....I'd really love to be proved wrong....please do...

    I did however come across some sage points, one live steam modelling forum wizened old gent had the perfect answer, don't use Brass! Brilliant and not wrong as far as I can tell.

    The other point was on a clock forum, two point's actually, before you set out you have to determine if you want 'clean' or 'bright' brass, there's an important distinction between the two.

    All of the above methods will give you 'clean' brass, none will give you 'bright' brass. Horolene will but it is wholly dependent on what the base metal was like before it tarnished. Polished brass as used in clocks will on the whole turn 'bright' again with Horolene; forty year old model train bogies will not, basically, as they say in computing circles, :shit: in = :shit: out :))

    On a positive note I glass grit blasted these two items (the tank external only) earlier in the year, bead blasting will give a smoother surface as trialed on other items. The only down side to mechanical cleaning is time, you're looking at a good 90 minutes worth of effort in those two items.


    If you want bright brass then there is only one sure way, mechanical cleaning, pure elbow grease.
  11. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Back to the H38, the old removable interior was junked and a new one made up, no more ugly gaps twixt the two.

    However, there seems to be some conflict between the two sources of 'expert' documentation regarding the kitchen, larder lengths and door positions.

    The interior walls are correct, the external doors and windows are correct, yet the internal gangway door is no where near the end of the coach, you'd probably never notice with the roof on but on the other hand, I know, and that means that eventually it'll get under my skin and a new kitchen will need to be fabricated. Far better to recognise that now and JFDI, than vex and hand wring over it for the next few days :p



    One end of the roof is now trimmed to profile and one end wall fitted, the other will be completed shortly, sadly the extruded profile is not uniform left to right, such that the end plates have a small gap at the top shoulder on one side :headbang:A backing plate and thin extension plate is one option, the other a whole new 5 thou overlay. The overlay does mean that all of the half etch recesses for steps and the such like at the kitchen end will be lost.


  12. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    The H38 coach is looking fine now. I was puzzled by the interior walls, which to me represented unwanted weight. In old age, I wouldn't say I prefer coaches to locos.
    Deano747 and simond like this.
  13. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    The interior walls were a customer requirement, in as much as they wanted a removable interior for detailing, sadly it left ugly gaps in the sides as it had to be narrow enough to get past the narrower outer shell at the gutter.

    In the end the floor was removed and the sides simply affixed to the interior of the main skin, thus adding strength, it also has rebates to allow glazing to be dropped in.
    Len Cattley and Dog Star like this.
  14. LarryG

    LarryG Western Thunderer

    Rebates for glazing sound interesting and I look forward to seeing this coach when it is finished.
  15. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Very nearly there now, some longitudinal vents to add, com cord tell tale and linkages and the long handrails up to the roof (removable)

    The corridor connections are just temporarily fitted and I'm having words with the client about the support brackets to see if he wants more details lower down as he usually buries the bottom end with the cover sheet.

    The door handles and associated small handles will go on after paint as the lining runs right through that area and makes the painters job bleedin awkward.

    There are roof panel closure straps to add, these may be better from thin tape once the primer base coat has gone on as I've found pretty much nothing sticks to clean aluminium :eek:




  16. dibateg

    dibateg Western Thunderer

    Nice work Mick - I used pcb tape for mine ( I think it came from Sidelines ), it's still on 10 years later...

  17. Ressaldar

    Ressaldar Western Thunderer


    I think that Sidelines stopped stocking that tape some time back, I have a part used reel that I used on Inspection Saloons from Sidelines and others, if you want to try it let me know.


  18. Lancastrian

    Lancastrian Western Thunderer

  19. mickoo

    mickoo Western Thunderer

    Cheers chaps, I went with thin electrical tape that we use at work, once painted it'll stay put I hope.


    That's the roof done and just ordered a set of GWR Tell Tales and associated castings to finally finish it all off.
  20. Scale7JB

    Scale7JB Western Thunderer

    Very smart looking.