New toy - Proxxon MF70 Micro mill

[Osgood]

Oh heck, I've just weakened to the point of ordering a Fräsemaschine - plus a 24264 rotary table. Despite being small the table's vernier scale looks kind of useable!

Have any existing Proxxon users considered the merit of the rotary table?

The hand wheels will have to be sorted, I'm guessing small variable speed motors could easily be fitted and would give a nice smooth movement to aid cutting finish?

 

[Dog Star]

... I've just weakened to the point of ordering a Fräsemaschine - plus a 24264 rotary table.

Pardon?

"24264" is fine... a Proxxon product code. It is the other bit that has me stumped so please explain.

 

[Osgood]

Frasemaschine is German-speak for milling machine - indicates from where I purchased it.

Rotary table is this (can be mounted at 90 degrees using angle plate too) as I'm sure you know:

 

[Horatio]

This is my first post and I apologise for not yet introducing myself, but will do so in the next few days. I have been a WT member for some months

Like others, I have been interested in buying one of these milling machines. I did a search for 'Proxxon MF70 deutchland' on google and got the Amazon.de site. Now I am a frequent user of Amazon.co.uk so the layout was pretty familiar but I do not read a word of the German language but I think I have just bought one of these machines for 242.20 euros including delivery and I think it will be charged to my card at £178.52. The Amazon.de site accepted my UK login and password and displayed the usual choice of UK credit cards for payment.

The product reference on my invoice/receipt is Proxxon 27110 Micro-Fräse MF 70

Could any Thunderers who read German have a look at the Amazon.de site and tell me if I have I bought the correct thing? If so I think I have got a very good price. If not I will have to try and work out quickly how to cancel the order!

Regards, Andrew H

 

[adrian]

Could any Thunderers who read German have a look at the Amazon.de site and tell me if I have I bought the correct thing?

I don't really read German but Google translate does a fair effort

https://translate.google.com/transl...H5O/ref=pe_386171_38075861_TE_item&edit-text=

 

[Osgood]

Andrew - I just ordered a machine from the same ebay source as Simon Bolton, I'm guessing the same bundled MF70 with machine vice (24260) and 3 x cutter set.

They also offer a machine without cutters and vice at a price similar to your Amazon deal, but you have saved a little more on shipping.

You should be able obtain a suitable vice and cutters for not much more than the extra cost of the package price - indeed you should be able to source cheaper cutters from http://www.cutwel.co.uk or similar, my next task being to ascertain what cutters to obtain

So all in all a good buy for you too!

Tony

 

[Overseer]

A good source of suitable small endmills etc for the MF70 is CNC Plus in Germany. http://cnc-plus.de/index.php
They have a very good range of quality cutters at reasonable prices. I have only ordered a few times but they seem efficient. I was surprised one Easter to find small chocolate Easter eggs packed in with the mills I ordered.

I sometimes buy Chinese tools but it is difficult to know what you are getting, the good ones are good but some are less good and it doesn't seem to relate to price. Usually the chinese cutters for 1/4 inch or 6mm collets for the larger mill are OK but the 1/8 inch or 3mm needed for the Proxxon are more variable.

 

[Horatio]

The MF70 arrived today and seems in good condition. I has a euro plug so I haven't run it yet. As mentioned in my intro I live most of the year in Portugal and so I am probably more aware of the euro exchange rate than most. When the pound is strong there can be substantial differences in price. About 3 years ago when Loksound XL 4.0 were in short supply I bought 2 from Germany at a discount of about 20%.

The MF70 will be traveling with me to Portugal in 3 weeks so the plug is not a problem, and I am pleased to say that my electrical competence does in any case extend to changing a plug

But I am not such a clever buyer. 6 weeks ago I purchased a ERSA RDS 80 from Amazon in the UK at a cost of £143.44. The same article today from Amazon.de will cost £104.74 including delivery. But I do not buy everything on price. I often pay full price for books. It is horses for courses

Thanks for the references to suppliers for cutters and end mills. I didn't realise there was such a large choice, though. I will start with the Proxxon parallel cutter and see how I get on.

Andrew H

 

[simon.bolton]

I found a plug! It's a two pin to three pin adapter, for shavers I think, anyway it didn't go bang and the machine which is firmly bolted to my work-bench makes a thrillingly no-nonsense thrumming noise. The instructions are a little rudimentary which-ever language you read them in but I got a 2mm cutter in and the rather nicely machined small clamp vice thing attached to the work bed.
I then rushed ahead and tried to mill out some material from the rear surface of a 7mm brass axle box but I need to think a little more carefully about how much I want to take off. Perhaps some more practice on something larger and easier to see would be a good idea?

Does anyone have some practice suggestions?

Is it possible, or even desirable to buy cutters of less than 1mm diam?

Cheers
Simon

 

[Steph Dale]

Yes, it certainly is possible to buy finer cutters than 1mm, but their use depends on your patience and pockets.
One other thought I have yet to investigate is to buy 3mm tool steel blanks and send them off to a company like Pantograph Services who can provide customised 'D' cutters as used in engravers /pantograph mills; the machine speed (20000 rpm) is certainly adequate...
Steph

 

[JimG]

Does anyone have some practice suggestions?

Simon,

You just have to try out different feeds, speeds and depths of cut with the cutters you want to use until you get a decent finish. There are a lot of variables on a milling machine - especially the smaller variety we use for model making which are not as stiff as the much larger and heavier engineering workshop machines. For example. instead of trying to mill a slot or face in one pass it might be better to do it in two or more passes at reduced depths of cut to get a decent finish on your small machine.

You should also practice setting up your spindle to your workpiece such that all your measurements will be done by the calibrations on your X and Y handwheels. Your best bet is probably to get yourself a book on using your machine which will give you pointers to how you can achieve things - such as

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Milling-Machine-Workshop-Practice/dp/1854862669

Watch out if you are going to use small diameter carbide cutters - they are very brittle and will go "ping" if you push them too hard. I've got a box of broken 1mm and under cutters gained by costly experience. Your spindle's top speed helps with small cutters but my spindle speed is a lot slower (7000rpm) and I had to do a lot of experimentation with feeds, speeds and depths of cut until I found out how I could get a decent cutter life.

Jim.

 

[OzzyO]

Simon,

if your thinking about using cutters of below 1mm Dia. you are better off to have a mill with a power feed as this keeps the pressure on the cutter constant (if your powering the feed by hand, if the phone rings you will tend to jump, I do.) then it's a few £s down the pan. Maybe one thing that you could do is make some larger hand wheels this could help.
Setting up the work-piece is one of the hardest parts of using a mill, you can not always set it up in a vice as it will squash the job, so you may have to clamp it down on the table (doing this can lead to cutting into the table, that is not good. So use some thin parallel packing below the job).

For most cutters the depth of cut is 1/3 of the Dia. at the full width of the cutter (so for a 1mm cutter your looking at 0.3mm) that is also using coolant or an air blower to keep the cutter clear of the cuttings.

OzzyO.

 

[simon.bolton]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I decided to have a go at something a little easier to begin with.

First, here's the plug. I notice it does say "shavers only" but presumably very few people take their milling machines on holiday...PLEASE NOTE THE WARNING ABOUT NOT USING THIS TYPE OF PLUG ADAPTER LATER IN THIS THREAD, IT IS POTENTIALLY LETHAL.

Next: I thought I'd mill out the slot needed to accomodate the bearings for a compensated chassis (7mm GWR Great Bear, just happened to have one lying around...).

The etches are reasonably thin nickel silver and easy to clamp down. There's a nice dotted line to follow too.


Lessons learnt?

Well; I like the little hand-wheels as I was rather tentative to start with and unsure of which direction everything was moving in when I turned them, helping to make slightly fewer mistakes.
I wasn't sure whether the metal was vibrating a bit and ought to have been clamped down onto the workplate as Ozzy suggested.
Things became easier as I gained confidence although you really do have to take care not to be distracted.
The 3mm cutter might have been better than the 2mm one for this job.
Nothing shattered or went ping (this time) and I wore my eye-protectors. However I do need to get a new pair of glasses for close-up work as I can't wear my magnifiers under the protectors.
I was reasonably pleased with the result, I always want to be able to do everything perfectly first time but judging from my violin playing, lots more practice will be needed.
It's much more fun than filing!
I'll get the book.

Cheers
Simon

 

[Osgood]

…...Nothing shattered or went ping (this time) and I wore my eye-protectors. However I do need to get a new pair of glasses for close-up work as I can't wear my magnifiers under the protectors…...

Just in case anyone was not aware:

Safety glasses (with side guards) with prescription lenses are readily available and very good value - I got a pair at Boots as an offer second pair last time round, they are invaluable for workshop stuff. I've been wearing mine all day for welding cutting and grinding, if I hadn't the result would have been none too neat!

 

[JimG]

Simon,

A good first time experience with no breakages. You usually have to hold sheet down quite well when milling and one way you might consider is to use double sided tape on a flat base - like MDF - which is bolted to your table. This can be surprisingly good if you are not taking very heavy cuts and the wood also provides a sacrificial base so that the cutters won't mark or cut your table. The problem you can get with sheet material and the normal spiral cutters is that the spiral action can lift the sheet material at the cutter and give you poor or very poor results.

Jim.

 

[simon.bolton]

Thanks everyone for your excellent and potentially life-saving advice. Graham, shouty is good! Thankyou very much, I'll get the plug changed before I touch the machine again, is there anything I should know about how to wire it up?
Jim, when I'm safe from shock I'll try the double sided tape and Osgood, I'll order a pair of safety specs when I have my eyes tested next week.

Very good this Western Thunder...

Cheers
Simon

 

[SimonT]

Simon,
my Proxon bench saw came from Axminster Power Tools fitted with an adapter that fitted over the German plug. Might be worth giving them a ring as they must fit the adapter to all the Proxon tools they sell.
Simon

 

[Osgood]

….I'll get the plug changed before I touch the machine again, is there anything I should know about how to wire it up?….

Only that:
Brown is LIVE
Blue is NEUTRAL
Green / Yellow is EARTH

There are 13A plugs around now with simple push-in wire connectors which make plug changing a lot less onerous than it once was. I got some recently from a local trade distributor - can't think where they came from now, but definitely out there somewhere!

Edit: Scrub the suff in red - I'm talking scribble again, they were the blue industrial plugs / trailing sockets I got which now have push-in wire terminals. Just searched for 13A domestic plugs with push-in and can't find any at the moment.

I'll pop in a 3A fuse, just for good measure. Note other European countries don't bother with individual fuses - they seem to survive ok….

 

[Dog Star]

my Proxon bench saw came from Axminster Power Tools fitted with an adapter that fitted over the German plug. Might be worth giving them a ring as they must fit the adapter to all the Proxon tools they sell.

Peter bought a Proxxon bench drill earlier this month, from Axminster, with an UK 3-pin plug / 3 amp fuse.

 

[Osgood]

Thanks Graham - I was only thinking 3A because I knew it was a low power machine and would not need anything like 13A protection (and those shaver type things are only rated at I believe 1.5 or 2A?), and I have not yet checked the MF70's current requirement. 5A does sound a better proposition given the 100W motor.

You never see a fused domestic plug in Switzerland - this came as quite a surprise to me.

I was a bit surprised but quite happy to see the push-in terminals on the new blue 16A plugs (also now on 32 and 63A equipment), which leads me to be very surprised 13A plugs have not all gone the same way (the only reference I found was a few years old for a plug no longer available).

Tony