Sorting out the accumulated part done and not yet started things workbench

Discussion in 'Workbenches, including workshop techniques.' started by Martin Shaw, 28 March 2020.

  1. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Nothing "little more" about it Brian, all info is useful, not least it shows the positioning of the horns which replaced a roof mounted whistle at this overhaul, the model is close but! Also being done is fitting the roller blind headcode and removing the marker lights. I have yet to read the book but I'm not certain the models has a livery that is wholly protoypical, either way the horns have to go, yet more research needed.
    Regards
    Martin
     
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  2. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    Looks like a ferocious sized worm & wheel lower right


    Atb
    Simon
     
  3. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    The week before last I decide that the test track needed some attention and despite stating categorically that I wasn't going to have a layout, an upgrade to a shunting plank seemed a possibility and it would allow a desultory pushing about of some wagons if the mood took. The mixing of machine tools and model railways in close proximity doesn't seem a good idea and getting baseboard materials, whilst possible is for me to be avoided at the moment. Therefore the starting point is a shelf 4.5m long by 0.28m wide, in two sections, a large quantity of new Peco BH track and some equally new points. In fact most of this was purchased by a friend 30 years ago but was as purchased and still in original packing. There isn't any scope for scenicky stuff although I have some ideas, but I could include a loop, some sidings and potentially enough to interest the odd hour, and a maybe curved extension to represent the ROTW. It's not as if I'm short of things to do but why not, to which end an LT pannier arrived yesterday which my wife even suggested might be a suitable Chrissy present, domestically things are obviously in a good place. I have shown some progress, at the far end two tracks cross to the next board which I will display when I've started it. Any resemblance to a Victorian empire builder is coincidental.
    Best wishes
    Martin
    IMG_1029.JPG

    I've just realised this doesn't fit the thread title in any way, but it can sit here as part of what's going on.
     
  4. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    The permanent way inspector has been testing some of the newly installed trackwork at Bogleshole Road Sidings, some invisible ballast is being shunted by Whitechapel whilst Fenchurch awaits instructions. Back in the real world, a collection of Dapol products pose, I am both exceptionally pleased but also disappointed by the Terriers. No doubt driven by commercial reasons both of the locos display some glaring errors, Fenchurch is I assume portrayed in its preserved state during which time I don't believe it has ever carried the BR livery and when it was it didn't have the tank vents or steam heat fitted. Whitechapel correctly doesn't have the dual LBSC lamp brackets, but it only has two of the requisite six at the front, and only four at the rear. It all seems a bit odd. Having said that they capture the look of a terrier well, run sweetly straight out of the box and at sub £200 each are incredibly good value for money, especially considering there are RTR 4mm models at or near that price. I certainly couldn't do better for the same money.
    IMG_1032.JPG
    Meanwhile in the workshop the SR CoCo has moved forward a bit, the bogie centres and top plates have been made and fitted together. Sometimes you have really good days and this was one of them, all of the drilling and tapping was spot on and it all fitted correctly first time. There is still more to do to them but I need to make the sideframes next.
    IMG_1034.JPG
    Best wishes
    Martin
     
    Last edited: 28 November 2020
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  5. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    I thought since it was all going so well, I would push my luck so I have milled the side frame stock to size. It's just a bit too long for the calipers so it's sized by eye to the rule marking, frankly it will be close enough. I can get an accurate measurement with the DRO when it's set up for drilling and shaping the bottom edge, countersinking will have to be done after the pieces are separated remembering that two sides are mirror image, massive scope for getting it wrong here I think. It is 11'o clock, enough for today.
    Best wishes
    Martin
    IMG_1036.JPG
     
  6. Yorkshire Dave

    Yorkshire Dave Western Thunderer

    One of them being the chimneys. Depending on the running number and period they either carried a Marsh, Drummond or the original Stroudley chimney. Fenchurch, when rebuilt in 1913 to A1X acquired a Marsh chimney.

    I spent a lot of time hunting down details and books when building Roxey A1X terrier/rooter 2636 (ex-Fenchurch) to finish her in post WWII war condition before overhaul in 1951. The incorrect details here are the Stroudley chimney as Marsh one is not produced/available and the colour of the footplate crews' clothes - should be dark grey not BR denim. A1X's are fickle to model as each one was subtly different at various stages of their careers.

    Iden Road 16a.jpg

    The lined BR livery is correct for both locos running in the 60's.
     
  7. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    After my last post I started doodling ideas for bearings, I needed to know what size hole was going to be needed in the frames for them. Two problems became apparent, the wheel is screwed onto the axle which left some thread projecting at 3.1mm dia, the stub axle being 2.2mm dia.
    IMG_1037.JPG
    Additionally not all that immediately apparent was that where the axle had been running on the frame hole wear had occurred both to the frames which were going for scrap but also the axle itself, its just about visible.
    IMG_1040.JPG
    The obvious solution was to skim the axle to take out the wear but also as far as the wheel boss giving a single diameter to fit the bearing. There was a bit of trepidation as there wasn't a lot of meat to start with, but care and a sharp tool managed ok.
    IMG_1038.JPG

    Having resolved that problem I could proceed with drilling the frames, countersinking one face, might as well as its set up anyway,
    IMG_1041.JPG
    and then resetting the work to mill the bottom edge scallops. This to my great pleasure went without a hitch, well only a minor one you can't see and I ended up with what I fully anticipated would be 4 identical frames which should in the finality all be uncaring as to which bogie they are fitted.
    IMG_1042.JPG
    After tea it was off to the garage to apply heat, separate the four parts and clean off as much of the solder as poss, and then in the workshop emery the rough surfaces and finish countersinks in the second side.

    Way back in this thread, the 20th October, I made a statement,
    I think I have achieved that, it's square, no fettling was required for it all to fit and I'm exceptionally proud of it, the star is for effort. All the bits are made for the second one and there is a fair bit yet to do, but it's starting to look like a semi finished thing. Thank for all of you who have supported it thus far, I'm grateful.
    Best wishes
    Martin
    IMG_1043.JPG
     
  8. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Just a quick one for today. A set of wheel bearings made and installed, they may well be trimmed to the outer face of the frames, I have to investigate how the cosmetic side frames hang off the sides. It runs up an down the track very sweetly and even allowing for the inherent slop in 32mm FS pointwork it rolls through the crossings without the usual bumping, six wheels and just about minimum running clearance all helps. It has been a most successful few days.
    Best wishes
    Martin
    IMG_1044.JPG
     
  9. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    Fraser,

    Recent experince with my Garratt (Another Beyer Garratt 0-4-4-0) which has taken far too long, and has thus been washed ultrasonically rather more often than is good for it suggests that the ultrasonic treatment does indeed etch away solder.

    Can't give you any quantifiable info, but I have had to remake some of my earlier joints, and the solder in those areas is dull and grey where it was bright and glossy silver. Of course, trying to emulate the "invisible solder gurus" does mean that there was less there in the first place.

    probably not an issue, but something to be aware of
    atb
    Simon
     
  10. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    I'm wondering Simon why your reply has appeared today, not that it's unwelcome, far from it and I totally agree with you, and it reminds me that the N15 should re -emerge blinking in the daylight to finish it. Meanwhile I have been progressing the test track whicjh is now operational, it's virtually all pointwork on the basis that if the engines go over it satis then they should be alright in more normal situations. I'll post a pic when I can take one in daylight. The Co Co has also progressed, the layshaft was installed using the brackets made for the earlier attempt and rather gratifyingly I seem to have got the mesh pretty much right, it appears that end float on the shaft seems more critical than the actual mesh for smooth operations. I've also managed to nearly sort the pinion shaft although I decided that new cups are needed, the originals are badly worn, but it does work and the first test suggests it's nearly as good as the other bogie which is really pleasing. No doubt lubrication and a bit of running in will help in due course. As you can see the design isn't fundamentally different from the original but you can dismantle it all and aided by some careful and accurate measurement it has gone together more or less per the plan, unlikely as that sounds.

    Best wishes
    Martin
    IMG_1046.JPG
     
  11. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    Martin,

    simple explanation, a joint that had been made for ages failed two or three days ago, and in parallel, a discussion with one of my staff regarding the ultrasonic cleaner at work yesterday prompted me to find Michael’s post regarding the silver foil, and I then saw Fraser’s question, and as the stars clearly aligned, I answered it!

    the new bogie looks very good. There is something satisfyingly “engineered” about things that can be properly dismantled, and “remantled”.

    Atb
    Simon
     
  12. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Ah I see. Thanks for the kind comment, I'm rather pleased with it myself, even if I do say so.
    Martin
     
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  13. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    IMG_1047.JPG A milestone on the SR Co-Co today, the basically completed first bogie has been installed in the chassis and powered by the motor, and it works pretty well. Given the quantity of gears involved and allowing for my dodgy measuring it is surprisingly quiet, most of the noise comes from the rolling road, lifting it into the air and the spur gear is audible but by no means excessively and the helical gears rumble quietly. It is significantly better than where I started and I should take the hint and be happy enough with it. So apart from fitting suitable pick ups I can move onto the other end, the basic bogie is in the background and just needs two layshaft bearings and a new pinion assembly manufactured so an end to the mechanicals is not too far away. Lies back contentedly.
    Best wishes
    Martin
     
  14. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    The works pulled a blinder today, the original bogie was stripped of reusable parts and off to the garage where the application of heat allowed the frame components to separate gracefully to the floor. The oily bits had a bath in white spirit with a toothbrush to scrub the accumulated grime away and the machine shop made up six new wheel bearings to fit the newly skimmed axles. The wheelsets were installed into the frames and clearances tweaked for free running. Emboldened by this rapid progress the foreman despatched the chassis to Bogleshole Road sidings to be towed around to see what did or did not work. Unfortunately he forgot to check the availablility of motive power, the two resident terriers had been put away for the night so L92 was hastily borrowed from LT, (I haven't invented this part of the story yet so I can't explain how an LT pannier gets to south London), and dutifully pushed and pulled the chassis around the pointwork. The wheels all went round together and stayed on the rails, so they all trooped off to the Lough Swilly for a small celebratory refreshment. Well pleased with it, tee heee.
    Martin
    IMG_1048.JPG
     
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  15. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    I have now got the second bogie to the same mechanical state as the first and it seems to work as well or as badly as the first. The load with both pinions coupled up made L92 cough and slip a bit, hardly surprising considering the mechanical disadvantage but I think driving from the motor to the wheels will be fine, maybe tomorrow.
    Regards
    Martin
    IMG_1050.JPG
     
  16. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Saturday was spent making and installing pickups, one assembly on each bogie. There isn't enough room to easily add a pick up at the gear end so on the insulated side it's picking up on 4 wheels, all 6 on the other side which are live to the frame. Firstly a length of square brass was made into angle then cut in half and tapped for 8BA to be held by screws through the side frames. A piece of PCB was drlled and tapped and fixed to the top side of the angle which gives plenty of space for tread pickups to be soldered in. There is enough space for rim scrapers as well if it proves necessary, I think the treads will inevitably get coated in a black goo over time. Some temporary wiring added and so to the crux of efforts over the last two months or so.
    IMG_1054.JPG It goes, and remarkably well, it's still a bit noisy, considering there are 8 sets of gears in some sort of mesh it's not surprising, and it's tractability isn't perhaps as good as you might wish but it crawls at a quite slow enough speed and I suspect it will still haul a goodly amount. Half an hour circling Bo'ness under load will settle it all down, obviously not able to do that at the moment. There are a few mechanical loose ends to finish off and to make sure I do them a list will be drawn up. The cosmetic side will need approaching, everything from the solebars downwards needs repainted and the climactic conditions in my garage at the moment are not conducive, and there is the body titivation to address as well but when I have finished the bits and bobs it will probably go back into it's box until the spring.

    Regards
    Martin
     
  17. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    It looks like it’ll pull a house down!

    I suspect you’ll get fed up cleaning those pick-ups, might be worth bending the ends of the bronze strip into a point, won’t be so liable to hold the dirt that way.

    Atb
    Simon
     
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  18. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    I started this section of the thread on the 2nd October with the suggestion that it might be quick and easy, like Brexit. I am pleased to say that I at least have reached an end point, the moving bits have all been sorted and the list I thought I needed only had four items which were easily done so the chassis has been refitted to the body with a bit of minor internal chopping to accomodate the now slightly bigger bogies, and it runs well. What I started out to do, to make a coarse scale 3 rail loco into a 2 rail finescale loco has been achieved, even if all that remains from the picture at the start is the body, solebars, bufferbeams, and motor, everything else internal has been replaced. I haven't taken a new picture because unless you knew, it doesn't look any different apart from some paint finishes, so here's where we started and pretty much finished up,
    IMG_0941.JPG

    When the weather improves and I can sensibly paint in the garage I'll pick it up but until then this is the last post on this project. I hope those of you who have followed it from the start enjoyed my amateur fumbling attempts at making something and it provided a bit of entertainment along the way. It certainly passed some time.
    Best wishes
    Martin
     
  19. Threadmark: An empty bench
    Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    I had a tidy up, mess everywhere and dust filings dirt and swarf strewn about willy nilly. Most of the tools seemed not to know there place either, I even took the cutting mat outside and cleaned it with some white spirit. I did wonder if I got one of those nice blue ones Mickoo uses whether my soldering might become less visible, I fear not. I am contemplating what I might do, rebuilding has had a good go this year, there are one or two stalled wagon projects and a couple of bogie vans that should also be progressed, but I quite fancy a loco and an ask on the small ads for an F5 was unsurprisingly unsuccesful, I have 6 other kits to choose from so we'll see.

    It doesn't look like this very often, savour the moment.
    IMG_1055.JPG

    Meanwhile may I wish you all as happy a Christmas as you can manage, stay safe and wish for better things next year.
    Best wishes
    Martin
     
  20. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Since I am not allowed to drink anymore, my doctor has forbidden it, this Christmas has been the most sober since about 1972 and it has allowed a clear headed consideration of what I might do next.
    One crucial factor that is important, I have a dislike, possibly bordering on the pathological, of etched laminated coupling rods. I realise they are perfectly satisfactory, and probably provide a better representation of the prototype, however the downside is that there is a lot of work to get to the end result and milled replacements are relatively inexpensive. The major argument against is that fluting is inevitably wrong, it's a compromise, as is so much in modelling, I can live with it.

    The options therefore were,

    Connossieur J70 tram engine, without wheels or coupling rods and no real interest on my part, might well sell this kit.

    Gladiator B16 and Majestic J37, wheels to hand but again coupling rods to source. Additionally being tender engines they are longish projects, especially the B16, so discounted.

    Connossieur G5, rather attractive and if I do one of the Scottish three I save myself that horrible to look at and no doubt to make, bunker rail arrangement. Coupling rods again.

    Agenoria Wemyss pug, this was the one I did want to do but apart from the coupling rods that are a special, an odd wheelbase of 7'9"+ 7'9", a read of the instructions rather put me off, the smokebox is three wrappers which I don't fancy at all just at the mo.

    Which leaves a Majestic J83 for which everything is to hand, a suitable motor from stock extracted and a start made.
    IMG_1060.JPG
    The jointed rods have been rivetted, which suggests a sprung suspension, probably not but I haven't finally decided and the other decision is whether I go 12 or 10BA on the crankpins. Both work, the inverted bush looks more like the prototype, the 12BA is easier to do. I'm holding off with the soldering iron whilst I ponder, it's what I seem to do most of these days.
    Kind regards
    Martin