Walsworth Models Sentinel Y1 8400

Discussion in 'Workbenches, including workshop techniques.' started by Sandy Harper, 9 November 2017.

  1. geoff_nicholls

    geoff_nicholls Western Thunderer

    I second Overseer's comments, and am also very pleased to see more photos showing how far locos travelled into dock and quayside systems. In my opinion we see unjustifiably large locos on quaysides far too often on layouts at exhibitions, or in magazines.
  2. Sandy Harper

    Sandy Harper Western Thunderer

    Gentlemen, your combined knowledgeable contribution to this thread has been excellent. I now know far more about this 'simple' little model than I did when I started. My grateful thanks.
    adrian likes this.
  3. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    Agreed - although I'm not sure about how much to read into the colour. It seems to have been taken on a very sunny day and the slide/scan processing may have washed out the colour a bit. What is noticeable is that although the buffer beam is red the buffer stocks appear to be black, also puzzled with what appears to be a hook hung off the top lamp iron on the "rear" of the loco.
  4. Ressaldar

    Ressaldar Western Thunderer

    perhaps for use with what appears to be a rope wound around the lower lamp iron and over the buffer.


  5. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    The LMS five plank is interesting - I suspect that it appears slightly duller/blacker than it might as an accident of photographic reproduction, though it is still pretty grubby - witness the relative visibility of 'LMS' and the wagon number. This wagon, to diagram 1892, no. 409612 must have been built some time in 1937 (I don't have any LMS reference books to hand, but Paul Bartlett's images show the - by 1968 - M407345 built in '37 and retro-fitted with vacuum brake LMS & MR open merchandise - 5 & 1 plank OWV ZGO ZGV | M407345). Steel underframe, 10' wheelbase, as modern as the LMS got for opens at that time. It's relative newness is apparent from the sheen of black gloss on the top half of the axlebox; it's about a year old.

  6. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    Yes - be very careful about photo colour reproduction. I've recently scanned a large format colour slide collection for a friend, all taken in the 1960s. A "straight" reproduction, ie without any picture processing in the scanner, shows the vast majority of the photos to have taken on a blue cast, although certain films have escaped. I can't confirm the film stock, and it can't be Kodachrome as that was only available in 35mm in 1965 or thereabouts, although historically that has given the best colour permanence. I don't want to remove the photos from their card frames either without permission, so the origin will remain a mystery.

    Having said which, the slide in question is Dufaycolor which was actually a black and white reversal additive image viewed through a colour filter mosaic integrated with the film and was reckoned to be pretty accurate at reproducing colour. Photographs such as this one are very rare, largely because colour film was extraordinarily slow. Nonetheless, being a black and white process image stability is good and deterioration should be minimal.

    However, in 1938 colour film was in its infancy, and some of the systems at that time had "interesting" assessments of colour fidelity. Frankly I'd use the colour in that photo as a guide only. As for the buffer beams, if you look at magazine colour photos from the 50s and 60s buffer beams can be seen to be red rather than orange, which is actually as I remember them.

    adrian likes this.
  7. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    If it helps there a few photos showing the internal layout of the CE engine as posted by Overseer.
    File:Im1925EnV139-p436.jpg - Graces Guide

    File:Im1925EnV139-p432.jpg - Graces Guide

    From the 1925 The engineer.

    The Engineer 1925/04/17 - Graces Guide

    It includes a few drawings as well

    Screen Shot 2017-11-11 at 15.32.17.png
  8. Sandy Harper

    Sandy Harper Western Thunderer

    Adrian, you're a star. Great photos and Graces guide has a mine of information.
    Many thanks
  9. Sandy Harper

    Sandy Harper Western Thunderer

    For 'Fly shunting'?

  10. Sandy Harper

    Sandy Harper Western Thunderer

    It now requires a tidy up and a scrub down. Next I need to tackle the engineering bits underneath to get it running.



  11. geoff_nicholls

    geoff_nicholls Western Thunderer

    talking of shunting, readers may also be interested in my thread "Shunting using Chains" elsewhere on this forum. there are other photos of Lowestoft, and of a Y10, though none of a Y1 or Y3.
    8400 is looking very nice. were you aware, Sandy, that the other lot were organising a 'cakebox' challenge? 8400 seems an ideal for the job.
  12. Sandy Harper

    Sandy Harper Western Thunderer

    No, What's that all about?

  13. geoff_nicholls

    geoff_nicholls Western Thunderer

    It's on RMWEB, BRM are challenging modellers to produce a diorama that would fit in a cardboard cakebox 8" x 8" x 6" The deadline is I think over a year off, but at least one person has already produced quite a neat looking scene.
  14. oldravendale

    oldravendale Western Thunderer

    Hi Sandy.

    Those sand boxes look good. Mine were all over the place for some reason, and all different. In fact all the castings were in need of some loving care, but with that applied they looked OK (to me) in the end.

    Nice build of a quirky prototype.

    Walsworth make (IMHO) good, buildable models at a very competitive price with a bit of TLC applied. Unlike certain other suppliers I could mention. (For some reason my spell checker made certain "cretin", which actually does apply in some areas to the other model I'm thinking of.:)))

    Stevesopwith and adrian like this.
  15. Sandy Harper

    Sandy Harper Western Thunderer

    HI Brian
    The sand boxes in this kit are actually very cleverly designed one piece etches that, if folded carefully and plenty of solder, can be turned into quite nice shaped boxes. I agree with your assessment on the kits produced by John. Good value for money.
  16. Sandy Harper

    Sandy Harper Western Thunderer

    The finished article. DSCN3670.JPG
    Dave, y6tram, D G Williams and 14 others like this.
  17. geoff_nicholls

    geoff_nicholls Western Thunderer

    lovely, but IMHO it does need a small patch of Lowestoft quayside to really finish it off. Unless you have other plans for it?
  18. Sandy Harper

    Sandy Harper Western Thunderer

    Indeed it does Geoff but not by me. It's a rather long story, so here goes.
    I had just emerged from a traumatic relationship with an ACE A3 and needed something simple and easy to recover my sanity! I asked John last Monday, he lives quite close to me, if he would like me to build one of his new Y1's. I thoroughly enjoyed the build and also offered to re-hash his instruction sheet. It was good therapy.
    During the build I took the opportunity to customise it slightly to make it a little different from the standard kit. I painted it black with the red buffer beams and returned it to John on Friday morning. His original plan was to use it as a display item on his trade stand but, by the afternoon he had sold it! Detailed, weathered and varnished, it went in the post to the new owner today!


  19. Super-Sentinel

    Super-Sentinel New Member

    I have only just found this discussion so my input is a little late, but I hope of interest. The Walsworth kit (which looks like an excellent product) represents the early Sentinel CE locomotive with composite frames. By way of explanation the first CE locomotive was Sentinel 5733 that was a stock order subject to a number of alterations before it was sold to Ley's Malleable Castings at Derby. Some of the diagrams/photographs in this discussion show this locomotive. The frames were a lightweight single channel section with the section facing outwards, the spring hangers being attached direct to the bottom of the channel section and this arrangement is not correct for the kit. Following examples had the main channel frame reversed to face inwards with another, shorter, channel section mounted below. This assembly was joined by two substantial gusset plates, mounted each end of the shorter channel, the spring brackets being attached immediately below the gusset plates and this is the design represented by the Walsworth kit. Whilst this composite frame design was very strong it was also very expensive and Sentinel eventually reverted to the single channel frame facing outwards, but to a much larger section than those used on 5733. The subsequent LNER Y1/Y3's had this revised single channel frame design. Of the sixteen CE locomotives known to have been fitted with the composite frame arrangement five were sold in the United Kingdom that generally match the frame/cab dimensions of the kit, as follows -
    5735 for Samuel Williams & Sons Ltd., Dagenham Dock
    6007 for Aitken & Morcom Ltd., Craig-y-Hesg Quarries, Pontypridd
    6020 for Dunstable Portland Cement Co. Ltd., Houghton Regis
    6076 for The Derwent Valley Light Railway, York and later with Thomas Summerson & Sons Ltd., Darlington
    6170 for the LNER as 8400
    The last survivor was 6076 that was scrapped early 1970 after a long period of disuse.

    I hope to build one of these kits in due course, but not sure which one to base it on yet!

    AJC, Dave, Peter Cross and 3 others like this.
  20. SLNCR57

    SLNCR57 Active Member

    Late to the party, Sandy ! How did you find the running gear ? Thinking of building an Irish one. Thanks David