Winch and Crane

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
I've decided to put this in as a separate project as it helps keep things tidier.

Crane Pluckley - In98-060.JPG
Here's the original winch and crane taken from a photograph showing Pluckley Station in East Sussex.

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Here are the sides and the 'flanges' all very kindly cut out for me by Jamie Page on his engraver. The flanges, once soldered on, will represent the webs on what would have been a casting.
I managed to buy some cogs of about the right size that will need their centres filled in and re bored to suit the rods and shafts that I'll be using. The picture next is the drawing, enlarged from 7mm, that I've been following. I'm not sure if the winch will work as the large wheel isn't at all concentric but, I'll try my best to get it to work :)

Jon
 
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AndyB

Western Thunderer
Well - I see Jamie has 'liked' the above post - which contains a significant contribution from himself.
If I didn't know him so well, I might think that was most self-congratulatory ;).
Which isn't to say it would be undeserved, as I'm most impressed by those flanges. Please tell us how thick they are and how you cut them?

Andy
 

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Andy,
Hah. False modesty is for wimps.;)

Actually, though, I 'like' the promise of an interesting thread around an interesting prototype. It's full of character and a nice mix of wood and metal.

As to the question, it was the pantograph wot done it.
Jon sent the twice sized pattern for the main side, and after cutting them out, and after some deliberation we thought we'd try gluing 2mm wide edging around it as appropriate.

When thoroughly dry, the follower's depth was adjusted and run around each element. Four times.
The metal was (I think) .028 nickel silver, held in place with double sided tape as normal. Cutting the 'middle' from each bit first, left each piece as well supported as possible for as long as possible and there wasn't much movement as each piece broke free.

The bits therefore have a cross section approx 1mm wide by 0.7mm thick.

The really clever bit will be to hold six pieces and a side in register to get them all fixed. Then repeat. One of those honeycomb soldering mats with plenty of stainless pins, and lots of solder paste
might be a way to go.

Here's a snap of Jon's master, looking now rather battered. (Sorry, Jon).


Jamie
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
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Holes drilled to take small bushes which I will machine up myself. I drilled the two holes in the upstand but found that they were too near to the edge to fit the flanges and so, these were plugged and silver soldered in. I'm leaving the very small hole, 1mm which scales to 0.088", as is as I think that this will be large enough for a brake shaft.

Jon
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
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The winch, so far, looking more like the movement from a clock. The bushes were silver soldered in so that I don't lose them when the time comes to attempt soft soldering on the flanges. I had to file quite a bit off the small cog that sits atop the large one in order to get it to mesh and, I also turned a very little off the large. This was just to even up the wheel more than anything as it wasn't at concentric. The chain drum was turned from the solid and is a good sliding fit on the shaft. Eventually, I'll Loctite all of these parts to their respective shafts. On the drawing, there shows a right angled piece with a hole through it on the bottom of each foot. These would have been used to hold the whole thing down but I forgot about these when making the pattern. Hopefully, I'll be able to soft solder some on at a later stage.

Jon
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
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I've had a failed time of it trying to silver solder the handles for the winch. Only just managing to solder on the larger ring but when I try the smaller one, it is so delicate that it just burns away. In fact on one attempt, I burnt the larger ring. The small one is 3/32" dia. with a 1/16" hole through it, can't remember the exact size of the slightly larger one. The idea of silver soldering is so that the handles can be blackened at a later stage. Does anyone have any ideas as to how it could be done, I've tried many. If all else fails, I'll have to soft solder.

Jon
 

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Jon,
Maybe,
Turn up the round handle bit plus its boss with a small locating pip on the end.
Turn up a solid boss, also with a locating pip on one end.
Drill two holes on a piece of oversized sheet to take the pips, the correct distance apart. Solder all together.
Trim/ cut the sheet back, between both, to represent the handle shape.
Drill hole through the larger boss to finish.

That way, there is a reasonable amount of meat on each piece, to make it harder to melt, but not leaving too much final fettling. Both pieces are mechanically supported during soldering, and the upper handle will remain so after, as well.

Beyond that, are you using 'easy' silver solder? And, is everything absolutely, scrupulously clean?

Yours
Jamie
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Andy/James
I'm using silver solder paste which, I now find, is far better than using traditional flux and rods.
I did try machining the bosses and then soldering them onto a wider base piece and that wasn't too successful. The small hand torch couldn't cope with the wider section which acted as a heat sink. I then turned on the Sievert which almost did the trick but still melted the smaller collar. I'll try and follow James's method tomorrow, the solid bosses may well, indeed, resist any tendency for the torch to melt them!

Jon
 

adrian

Flying Squad
This should be possible with silver soldering. I'd echo Andy's query about the torch you are using. Can you get a fairly focussed flame? I find for the small components you have to take your time and gently warm everything and get it up to temperature. Just don't rush it.

I have found a youtube video silver soldering a small boss which looks similar in size to what you are trying to do, this might give you some hints.


My only other suggestion is to turn up the boss in something like nickel-silver with a slightly higher melting point than the brass.
 

jamiepage

Western Thunderer
Jon,
The only other thing I can float, beyond scrupulous cleaning, is whether or not the paste has dried out too much? I am no expert on this paste but one syringe I tried to use a while back became very difficult to use after a while- more and more heat needed to melt the solder but the workpiece was oxidising in the meantime so it was all becoming a bit miserable.
I mixed a bit of easiflo flux with it to water it down a bit and that made it easier to work, but a replacement syringe with 'wetter' flux showed how it should have been behaving- but wasn't.
Maybe Adrian or Giles (or any other expert) could give their opinion on that, because I really don't know much about it to be honest.
Jamie
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
This time, I slid the handle onto the boss and inserted it into a pre drilled hole in the soldering block that I was using and this held it in place. I then heated the handle at the top and chased the heat down it with the blow torch until it got to the boss and melted the solder. The handle acted as a heat sink therefore saving the small boss from melting. The other thing that I was wondering about with previous attempts was the flatness of the 'flat' part of the handle to the block which to the way that I was seeing it, didn't allow the heat to 'wrap' itself around the item. Applying more heat to compensate leading to melt down.
Well, here are two pictures showing the almost finished winch complete with two handles and a brake pedal. The pedal at the moment is in the on position and I'll need to fit a small chain with a ring that will hold it in the off position. A spring that small would be out of the question hence the chain.....unless someone has another solution.

Jon

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Giles

Western Thunderer
I've just caught up with this excellent thread!

I'm glad you got there..... may I ask what the block you're using is? Some seem to be better at reflecting the heat than others. I have also found that the only vise that the paste has, is that it needs to climb up to melting point in one clean sweep. If you heat it half way, and if it cools a fraction, reheating it doesn't work at all, and it won't melt.
 

Martin Field

Western Thunderer
I once made a 1/12th scale Maserati "Birdcage " chassis which incorporated a working gear change in the cockpit. In order to make the gearstick stay in the upper plane it required a 1mm diameter spring. That ended up coming from an N-gauge coupling. Prime Miniatures do 0.9mm diameter springs and upwards for 1-50 a pack.
 

Jon Nazareth

Western Thunderer
Giles
It was one of those blocks from Cookson that you suggested might be a help. I did buy a honeycomb block from ebay but, it split into three on the first heating. I should have bought one from Cookson at the same time as the solid block, hindsight and all of that.

Martin
Thank you for that, I'll look them up.

Jon
 
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