S Wisbech Market Place

[Steve Cook]

I guess this isn't the usual way to start a project thread, describing the destruction of a perfectly good layout, but sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards. As mentioned in the tail end of the Boomers Wood thread, the layout in question is / was Stroudley Green, built by Maurice Hopper. It had passed through the hands of Simon D (gaining a set of legs in the process) before arriving home with me ready to spend a couple of years in the loft

Having gone through a rationalisation of my modelling projects, the layout has made it downstairs for evaluation of what to do with it. Originally I had intended to model Totland Bay (the proposed terminus of the Feshwater Yarmouth and Newport Railway) and figured with the layout being based on Bembridge that this was a possible scenario. It never really lit my fire though, so a change of plan saw most of the related stock sold and I'm back to trying something that feels more manageable within the time I have available.

As a starting point I have a G15 tram kit, a selection of open wagon kits and a single box van kit, plus a few wheel sets, underframes etc etc - enough to get me going and to provide a starting point (I'm rather partial to the trams, moreso having run one of the Quayside of Trevor Nunn's East Lynn layout). If there is a downside, is thats the G15 rather limits the choice of prototype location, on the other hand, that makes it slightly easier to choose one

Having mused over the options, the Wisbech and Upwell Tramway came out as favourite, there is plenty of material available for research and it is an enticing prototype. Having confirmed with Maurice that he would have no objections to the layout being considerably revised, I've settled (for the time being at least) on modelling the proposed extention of the tramway up to Wisbech Market Place. There are a few things going in its favour, it can be freelanced to a degree whilst still remaining true to the original tramway, its doesn't have a huge variety of stock, most stuff is short wheelbase so unlikely to upset the proportions of the whole layout and the physical constraints of the Market Place can be used to justify the track layout. There are quite a few photographs of Wisbech Market Place on the net, covering stuff from 1900 through to current, with some cracking buildings to boot.

The first thing to do with a location in mind was to strip the layout down to boards, track, wiring and point actuation - at least it is still a working layout in this form, if not quite as nice to look at.

The starting point


Close up of the turntable board


The tools of the trade, chisel, sharpened screwdriver, glass fibre brush and a solution of 50% water, 50% IPA. By the time I'd got round to doing the crossing and the points I'd added a couple more small screwdrivers to the list, and I mustn't forget the hoover for cleaning up afterwards



All of the main scenic covering was removed in as larger chunks as possible to minimise the mess, the station building has survived but for no real reason, it just seemed a shame to destroy it. With the boards clear, the water/IPA solution was dribbled onto a 12" section of ballast and left to soak in for five minutes. Another application over the top, then gently scrape off. Sounds easy, it most definitely wasn't. Some of the ballast is so well stuck down its still on there, I'm sure I'll damage something if I keep going. Fortunately, it only affects the run in from the fiddle yard and the first point and it is all now beneath sleeper level.



A bit brutal it could be said, but I like the fact that it is now almost a blank canvas. I've a large set of decisions to make now - good timing as there is little opportunity over the next few weeks to get any physical construction done, but up for consideration are

Exhibition friendly or just moveable?
Operate from front, rear or both?
DC or DCC?
Manual point actuation or motorise?
Removable baseboard extensions ala Boomers Wood?
Add to current trackwork?
Backscene?
Presentation?
Lighting?
Height?
Stock list?
etc, etc.

Currently, the image in my mind is representing the top of the Market Place with a road, then buildings behind the rear most track. I'd like to add an extra point leading off to the rear from the main line of the loop, running across the road and into a loading dock set slightly back and at an angle from what would be the main street.
Buildings on the left and right hand sides to frame the scene, with the cutaway section of the board reinstated at the front to provide a place to put the market stalls etc. DCC, and push to change motorised points are the current favourite as that allows operation from both sides (easy enough to have two separate control panels with push buttons for actuation), but I've never had a lever frame before and I think I'd like one. However, the previous layout showed that project creep is an ever present concern, so nothing is yet decided and I reserve the right to change my mind (daily if required!)

Steve

 

[Steve Cook]

Don't be, you've got a loft to play in and someone to share it with

 

[ceejaydee]

It takes a brave man to tackle a job such as removing all that scenery and ballast from an existing layout and a skilled one to carry it off.
Will certainly be interested in seeing how the decisions are made that will see this layout evolve.

 

[ScottW]

It takes a brave man to do what you have done but I'm glad to see you managed to remove all the scenary and ballast without destroying any of the track. Are you going to keep the turntable?

Regards,

Scott

 

[JimG]

Steve,

You also might consider making the track inlaid in whatever surface you model and adding a continuous check rail to everything. It looks as though Maurice has used something like Code 80 FB on PCB sleepers, so adding a continuous check shouldn't be too difficult. You might have to shave something off the foot of the FB rail if you want a prototypical check rail gap, or use a similar height BH rail. Or if you want to simulate tram style girder track, use 2mm wide NS strip on edge to give a better impression of that style of track.

Jim.

 

[Steve Cook]

It takes a brave man to tackle a job such as removing all that scenery and ballast from an existing layout and a skilled one to carry it off.

Cheers Christopher, but I think I'll go for foolhardy and patient rather than brave and skilled As its the first time I've done this kind of thing, its a little bit exciting to see what happens and what you find as you dig deeper. The fact that its rail soldered to pcb means it could take a little more abuse than something like plastic chair / ply sleeper - I would have left it well alone if that had been the case.

Will certainly be interested in seeing how the decisions are made that will see this layout evolve.

I'll do my best to explain the descisions made as I go through

It takes a brave man to do what you have done but I'm glad to see you managed to remove all the scenary and ballast without destroying any of the track. Are you going to keep the turntable?

I'm pleased the track survived too Scott, and the turntable is definitely staying - just got to collude with Arty now to come up with a 'one push' system of operation.

 

[Steve Cook]

Steve,

You also might consider making the track inlaid in whatever surface you model and adding a continuous check rail to everything. It looks as though Maurice has used something like Code 80 FB on PCB sleepers, so adding a continuous check shouldn't be too difficult. You might have to shave something off the foot of the FB rail if you want a prototypical check rail gap, or use a similar height BH rail. Or if you want to simulate tram style girder track, use 2mm wide NS strip on edge to give a better impression of that style of track.

Blimey Jim, you've either got great eyesight or you've been round and measured it Its 84 thou tall, and of a flatbottom style, but the running rail is very narrow compared to something like Peco 75 and the profile is a little strange to boot. I'll email Maurice and find out what he used.
Inlaid track is very much on the agenda, I fancy the challenge and I like the look of it to boot. I've got some offcuts of both FB and BH code 75 out and stuck them alongside the existing rail, the good news is I can use the FB rail which I have 20 yards of. Snuggled up foot to foot, they give a checkrail gap of 30 thou, and as there is barely any straight track it means I can stick to prototypical clearances. The only fly in the ointment is that the checkrail will have a wider head than the running rail.
Steve

 

[JimG]

Blimey Jim, you've either got great eyesight or you've been round and measured it Its 84 thou tall, and of a flatbottom style, but the running rail is very narrow compared to something like Peco 75 and the profile is a little strange to boot. I'll email Maurice and find out what he used.

I laid Code 80 FB on PCB for the hidden sidings on Banavie Road and it looked pretty well the same as your track.

Jim.

 

[Simon Dunkley]

Blimey Jim, you've either got great eyesight or you've been round and measured it Its 84 thou tall, and of a flatbottom style, but the running rail is very narrow compared to something like Peco 75 and the profile is a little strange to boot. I'll email Maurice and find out what he used.
Inlaid track is very much on the agenda, I fancy the challenge and I like the look of it to boot. I've got some offcuts of both FB and BH code 75 out and stuck them alongside the existing rail, the good news is I can use the FB rail which I have 20 yards of. Snuggled up foot to foot, they give a checkrail gap of 30 thou, and as there is barely any straight track it means I can stick to prototypical clearances. The only fly in the ointment is that the checkrail will have a wider head than the running rail.

Steve,
When you next come over, you can borrow my books on the Wis and Up, and see the original (and vastly different!) plans for the Market Place extension - complete with 1 chain curves! More usefully, one of the books has a cross-sectional drawing of the inlaid track, from which I would conclude that you might wish to consider using some 10 thou x 80 thou brass strip to get a better looking version of the inlaid track.
Either that or make sure you blacken the inner rail heads severely before laying, to help disguise the sleight of hand.

 

[Steve Cook]

Cheers Simon I like the idea that what I'm doing is different to what was proposed, I have no intention at all of slavishly following the real thing.

I'm very interested in the inlaid track drawing, although 10thou by 80 thou strip will be pretty expensive in the quantity that I need, as well as being a bit of a sod to solder in position neatly and with a consistent gap. Having something slightly shorter than the existing rail will also make track cleaning significantly easier I think.

 

[JimG]

I'm very interested in the inlaid track drawing, although 10thou by 80 thou strip will be pretty expensive in the quantity that I need, as well as being a bit of a sod to solder in position neatly and with a consistent gap. Having something slightly shorter than the existing rail will also make track cleaning significantly easier I think.

Steve,

A cheaper way of representing girder track which I have seen done is to solder a suitable size of FB rail on its side to the main running rail, with the head of this rail in the web of the running rail. The foot of the rail represents the check rail. It's certainly a lot cheaper than getting small section metal strip. If you want something close to the proper check gap in S, you might have to use something like the 2mm Association Code 40 FB rail which might get you close to the 28 thou check gap.

Jim.

 

[John D]

Exhibition friendly or just moveable?

You'll have it something like presentable then for Shepshed October 2013 then............ so don't make it ' just moveable'

 

[Steve Cook]

Cheers Jim, thats an idea I hadn't considered Given that there is no straight track I can get away with a 32 to 40 thou gap- will have to order some rail to see how will work out

You'll have it something like presentable then for Shepshed October 2013 then............ so don't make it ' just moveable'

Ask me this time next year

 

[JimG]

Cheers Jim, thats an idea I hadn't considered Given that there is no straight track I can get away with a 32 to 40 thou gap- will have to order some rail to see how will work out

If you want I could send you a sample length of the 2mm Association Code 40 FB and also the Peco Code 60 FB which I have. Will you be at Railex this weekend? I'll be there on the S scale stand on Sunday, so could bring the rail for you.

Jim.

 

[Simon Dunkley]

Another choice would be to use styrene strips: one 80 thou high for the inner guard rail, and comething else to provide the correct spacing. A little measuring of the rail would be required, as the spacer needs to sit above the foot, but into the web without making the flangeway too shallow, but it may be that 20 thou by 40 thou, laid flat and positioned 15-20 thou above the sleeper tops would give you everything you need.
I haven't tried this with FB rail, but it does work with BH.

 

[Joe's Garage]

In the introduction you mention a kit for the tram...where does this come from? I have always been partial to S scale but.......I guess it was the experience of chain shunting Wicken many years ago at Imrex and the friendliness of the group.

 

[JimG]

I'm very interested in the inlaid track drawing, although 10thou by 80 thou strip will be pretty expensive in the quantity that I need......

Steve,

You could consider getting the strip etched from 10 thou nickel silver sheet - might be a cheaper way of getting enough strip. You might be talking about £30 -35 for an A4 sized sheet from PPD. The artwork won't be too difficult.

Jim.

 

[Steve Cook]

Another choice would be to use styrene strips: one 80 thou high for the inner guard rail, and comething else to provide the correct spacing. A little measuring of the rail would be required, as the spacer needs to sit above the foot, but into the web without making the flangeway too shallow, but it may be that 20 thou by 40 thou, laid flat and positioned 15-20 thou above the sleeper tops would give you everything you need.
I haven't tried this with FB rail, but it does work with BH.

Cheers Simon - I'll bear it in mind if the FB rail on its side doesn't work. Just waiting on the postie to deliver JimG's donation to the experiment

Steve,
You could consider getting the strip etched from 10 thou nickel silver sheet - might be a cheaper way of getting enough strip. You might be talking about £30 -35 for an A4 sized sheet from PPD. The artwork won't be too difficult.
Jim.

Another good idea Jim Might be a easy first step in etching...

 

[Steve Cook]

In the introduction you mention a kit for the tram...where does this come from? I have always been partial to S scale but.......I guess it was the experience of chain shunting Wicken many years ago at Imrex and the friendliness of the group.

Hi JG
I bought the kit secondhand (unbuilt), but I believe its origin is with Connoisseur Models. Not sure whether its blown up from one scale or shrunk down from another, I'm sure someone else here can elaborate.

As to getting hold of one, well the one I bought turned up when I wasn't looking for one, but I haven't seen another for sale since so I can't help anymore I'm afraid.

The group is still very friendly and encouraging

Steve

 

[Arty]

It's still available from Jim in 7mm, presumably it was re-sized for the S Gauge Soc ?
It's one of his early ones - hand drawn originally,
I seem to recall making a few of the patterns for the original kit in "O"

Rich