7mm US model dabblings

[michael080]

What I couldn't do was change addresses, seems not all write to module buttons actually write to the module So, I can now change an address.......yaaaah, but, it still will not let me read decoders at all. I still suspect it's a power issue as reading the Dash 8 makes a clicking noise, exactly the same noise when you first place the engine on the track, why it will let me edit the address and not read it is still a mystery.

I had the exact same problem and the solution was to use a larger power supply. Strangely, the originally used power supply was a powerful lab supply, but it still didn't work. I am using a notebook-style brick supply now and all problems disappeared. Reading from a DCC controller basically means that the motor current is switched in a high speed pattern. This requires a fast response from the power supply that many can't provide.

Michael

 

[mickoo]

I haven’t used a Sprog, but I’d expect any DCC unit to need an amp or more, in running mode. My Lenz unit is 5A. As I understand it, if you’re using a programming track the current is strictly limited to prevent damage, so a less grunty power supply should suffice, and the Sprog website suggests a 1.25A 12V wall wart at a tenner. https://www.sprog-dcc.co.uk/sprogii

Atb
Simon

Simon indeed, to run trains through the Sprog you need a bigger power supply but to program a decoder they recommend 250mA as a base minimum. I can activate basic sounds like the bell, but the horn trips it out, more obscure is that the same power supply can drive the GP60 on DC with sound.

 

[mickoo]

I had the exact same problem and the solution was to use a larger power supply. Strangely, the originally used power supply was a powerful lab supply, but it still didn't work. I am using a notebook-style brick supply now and all problems disappeared. Reading from a DCC controller basically means that the motor current is switched in a high speed pattern. This requires a fast response from the power supply that many can't provide.

Michael

Splendid, I'll 'procure' said supply from work today and test this evening

 

[michael080]

I think I should add that "notebook style" was referring to the size and shape but not necessarily to the output voltage of the brick. Please check the acceptable voltage before connecting!!
Many notebook supplies have 19VDC which is definitely too high for the SPROG.
I had a 12V type lying around that was probably an orphan from an external hard drive.

Michael

 

[mickoo]

I think I should add that "notebook style" was referring to the size and shape but not necessarily to the output voltage of the brick. Please check the acceptable voltage before connecting!!
Many notebook supplies have 19VDC which is definitely too high for the SPROG.
I had a 12V type lying around that was probably an orphan from an external hard drive.

Michael

Yup, roger that

We have plenty of old spare 12V power bricks kicking around, some up to 5A which I think is over kill for the sprog.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

The Dash 8 is my test engine right now as I'm confident is has the lowest power draw so is the least load on the system and it's the one you programmed with a Sprog so I'm confident it should work.

I think I programmed it with the ESU Lokprogrammer..... which is irrelevant in this situation as the Sprog shoud be reading it as well.

As @Big Train James has also alluded to, anything with a wierd US DCC system such as Lionel/Atlas I tend to rip out and replace with a higher end European decoder whether ESU or Zimo. Generally ESU as they have a larger library of US sounds. In the past I have tried SoundTraxx (good sounds) but was put off by the lack of finesse within the motor drive parameter CVs compared to ESU and Zimo (this which may have since been addressed).

We have plenty of old spare 12V power bricks kicking around, some up to 5A which I think is over kill for the sprog.

You should be ok with this. I'm using a 12v 3A output with my ESU Lokprogrammer and Sprog.

 

[mickoo]

Re capping some of this with the new info, the GP60 still has it's two stock motors in, the Dash 8 has had the cab one stripped out and the MP15DC is is only a single motor anyway, this may account for the Sprog not even looking at the GP 60 and the issue of it not working on DCC may....hopefully....just be down to the address.

The quality of sound between Daves Dash 8 ESU set up and the default QSI MP15 (and what little I've heard on the GP60 in DC) is marked; both will eventually be upgraded to ESU decoders and much bigger speakers.

 

[simond]

We have plenty of old spare 12V power bricks kicking around, some up to 5A which I think is over kill for the sprog.

it won’t take more than it needs...

 

[mickoo]

Well success, seems all 12V is not 12V

Finally managed to read the files from the Dash 8 and then took the plunge with the GP60, no issues at all, found engine address as #9472....what the...

Restored to address 3 as default and tested okay, sounds are though, never heard a 710 block start in under 3 seconds, pahh! Granted a full start sound bite is long and tedious, but 10 seconds of pre start and crank is plenty good enough.

Thanks for the hive's input

 

[Jordan]

I also seem to recall that way back in the early days of Atlas O scale, they did offer some 2-rail models with TMCC.

My Atlas SW1200RS was like that; 2-rail wheels but TMCC gubbins inside. It certainly didn't work with 12v DC, not even the sounds. As I wasn't using DCC at the time I don't know if it would work with that or not - I suspect not.
Anyway it all got stripped out (except for the speaker in the fuel tank) & wired for DC, it ran so smoothly, best running loco I've ever had. Later fitted it with a Tsunami 1amp/HO decoder & brought the speaker back into play. It is still the smoothest running loco I have - apart from the 'fussy' nature of the Tsunami, which can drop sound & lights & stutter on clean track that other decoders sail through - very irritating!! Even fitting a TCS keep alive has made no discernable difference.

 

[mickoo]

My Atlas SW1200RS was like that; 2-rail wheels but TMCC gubbins inside. It certainly didn't work with 12v DC, not even the sounds. As I wasn't using DCC at the time I don't know if it would work with that or not - I suspect not.
Anyway it all got stripped out (except for the speaker in the fuel tank) & wired for DC, it ran so smoothly, best running loco I've ever had. Later fitted it with a Tsunami 1amp/HO decoder & brought the speaker back into play. It is still the smoothest running loco I have - apart from the 'fussy' nature of the Tsunami, which can drop sound & lights & stutter on clean track that other decoders sail through - very irritating!! Even fitting a TCS keep alive has made no discernable difference.

Strange that the stay alives are not working, could it be they're set up/sized for an HO loco on the HO decoder and thus not enough charge to keep a O gauge loco going?

The MP15DC isn't a bad drive with the big central motor and drive shafts, I've yet to set mine up, need to add better profile wheels, move the side frames in a bit and then go from there with hopefully a decent sound file from the ESU range. A V4 chip should be more than capable, not sure it needs to go to a VL other than I think the VL has two speaker outputs.

I'm just putting the finishing touches to a new etched cab for it, should also fit the MP15AC, SW1500 and I think SW1200. The etch also has your replacement door but it's slightly thicker than the previous ones so we'll see how that goes, I don't have a 0.2 sheet going off anytime soon I'm afraid and I want to see if 0.4 resolves some of the curling and still renders the latches okay.

The Lionel SD75I doesn't have TMCC fortunately but I've no idea how the 2 rail conversion will go or indeed what's required, never opened a Lionel powered truck before. The GP60 doesn't either, as noted previously it appears to be only on very early deliveries, this one is QSI as stated on the chip....which I failed to remember when typing it might have TMCC

Whilst blundering around my Flickr rabbit holes I came across this

Pioneer Rail type beat by Jacob Narup, on Flickr

I do need to really start layout planning and getting something up and running.

 

[Scale7JB]

Strange that the stay alives are not working, could it be they're set up/sized for an HO loco on the HO decoder and thus not enough charge to keep a O gauge loco going?

The MP15DC isn't a bad drive with the big central motor and drive shafts, I've yet to set mine up, need to add better profile wheels, move the side frames in a bit and then go from there with hopefully a decent sound file from the ESU range. A V4 chip should be more than capable, not sure it needs to go to a VL other than I think the VL has two speaker outputs.

I'm just putting the finishing touches to a new etched cab for it, should also fit the MP15AC, SW1500 and I think SW1200. The etch also has your replacement door but it's slightly thicker than the previous ones so we'll see how that goes, I don't have a 0.2 sheet going off anytime soon I'm afraid and I want to see if 0.4 resolves some of the curling and still renders the latches okay.

The Lionel SD75I doesn't have TMCC fortunately but I've no idea how the 2 rail conversion will go or indeed what's required, never opened a Lionel powered truck before. The GP60 doesn't either, as noted previously it appears to be only on very early deliveries, this one is QSI as stated on the chip....which I failed to remember when typing it might have TMCC

Whilst blundering around my Flickr rabbit holes I came across this

Pioneer Rail type beat by Jacob Narup, on Flickr

I do need to really start layout planning and getting something up and running.

Has @Jordan been track laying again?

JB.

 

[JasonD]

Is the circuitry in the GP60 a single long thin board with an occupied chip socket, or is it one or two small stacked boards? If the latter it's almost certainly TMCC. Atlas/TMCC/2-rail worked, but needed a 110 volt (preferably 60 Hz) power supply, 2 x linked Lionel control boxes, the throttle and the ... can't remember.

I'm not a user, but the sound installs on certain US ESU chips are different from European sound installs. I don't remember where I read it.

Dave, you said "a wierd US DCC system such as Lionel/Atlas", Lionel have never used DCC and apart from possibly incorrect wiring colours early on, Atlas have lately standardised on DCC/EUS. The DCC is dual whateveritis so you can get a limited range of sounds on DC.

Must start playing with DCC sound, got a Phase 3(?) MTH ES44 to play with while I solder an ESU chip in somewhere else. Been a long time coming.

Jason

ps: just read Mick's note about the chip being QSI, but I left my paragraph in about Atlas/TMCC in case someone else discovers an example.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

It is still the smoothest running loco I have - apart from the 'fussy' nature of the Tsunami, which can drop sound & lights & stutter on clean track that other decoders sail through - very irritating!! Even fitting a TCS keep alive has made no discernable difference.

Strange that the stay alives are not working, could it be they're set up/sized for an HO loco on the HO decoder and thus not enough charge to keep a O gauge loco going?

For a stay-alive to function properly the decoder has to be set to run as DCC only i.e. disable the analogue mode in CV29.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Atlas/TMCC/2-rail worked, but needed a 110 volt (preferably 60 Hz) power supply, 2 x linked Lionel control boxes, the throttle and the ... can't remember.

Probably would have work first time if you'd powered it directly from the BR 25 kV, 50 Hz AC overhead system .

 

[JasonD]

Dammit Dave, why didn't I think of that? Next dog walk - I lived in Weedon Bec, 300 yards from the WCML!!

 

[Jordan]

For a stay-alive to function properly the decoder has to be set to run as DCC only i.e. disable the analogue mode in CV29.

It is. The stay-alive is only a small one due to space; it might be working but only up to a point, and as Mick says, not sufficient for an HO Tsunami running an O scale loco, although the Amps drawn is always low, nowhere near 1amp.

Re that track, no comment....

 

[Dog Star]

Re that track, no comment....

Jordan (@Jordan), surely you are qualified to "grade" the grade in terms of comedy trackwork?

regards, Graham

 

[Jordan]

Jordan (@Jordan), surely you are qualified to "grade" the grade in terms of comedy trackwork?

regards, Graham

Not sure I'm qualified for anything, to be honest. Certified, maybe....
Might just be the angle of the photo, but I do like the impression that the rails have just been laid directly on the ballast, sans ties (sleepers). maybe that's why it's so uneven.

 

[mickoo]

It is. The stay-alive is only a small one due to space; it might be working but only up to a point, and as Mick says, not sufficient for an HO Tsunami running an O scale loco, although the Amps drawn is always low, nowhere near 1amp.

Re that track, no comment....

The stay alive is only capacitors, there's nothing to stop you adding more and they don't have to be fixed to the board, they could easily be elsewhere with flying leads back to the board.

The ballast doesn't follow usual US switching or short lines where they just lay it on the ground with virtually no ballast, this section looks to be heavily ballasted by looking at the other photos he took.