Gladiator 7mm GCR 11F 4-4-0

Tim Watson

Western Thunderer
I wondered what the holes were for in the tender top, Peter! I will have to un-fill them to drain the water. I’ll take a look at that inspection cover on the reverser box: it is just discernible on Valour and I need to increase the curvature a bit so a few strokes of a file and a chisel should do it.

I don’t know if the two types of fire iron support were contemporaneous with GC condition - the cruciform front end would hold the fire iron loops quite neatly. I have a 1937 picture of Valour with a more conventional U shaped bracket at the front rather than the +, albeit on a standard tender.

Tim
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
I'm coming round to swapping the fire iron bracket to the curly U one, but where did this cruciform version come from?

It may be one of those fittings which may have been modified when the loco went in for a major overhaul and some may have never been modified. It could also be an off-the-shelf rather than a Gorton product or vice versa.

Although railway companies had their own works I suspect the majority of standard fittings and parts were bought in.
 

Martin Shaw

Western Thunderer
Peter
One small comment re the tender water valve handles, they look exactly the same as the the ones on the tender behind Morayshire, which is ex GC so I think they are likely originals. It also has the U shaped fire iron bracket so I suspect original Gorton. Once again a very nice looking model.
Regards
Martin
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Tim, Dave, Martin,
Thanks for the comments.

I did not spot it before until David Hill's last post, but this image of BH in GCR livery shows a U bracket.
d11_butlerhenderson_1920.jpg

This view of 510 in LNER days shows a U bracket.
48166142412_ba9aaf6807_b.jpg

This view of the LNER built 6385 shows a cruciform fire iron bracket, so I'm wondering if the one on BH is a later change or perhaps resulted from a tender change???
d11_lord_glenallan.jpg

As to the holes in the tender top I'm assuming they are drain holes. If they are, I have no idea if they drained into the tank or to the track via a pipe, as on Bulleid Pacific tenders.

Cheers,
Peter
 
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Tim Watson

Western Thunderer
I have had a chat with Tony Gee & his observation is that the ST tenders had the + and normal, a U. Look at the width difference between the tank sides & the raves to see the different types.

I have made the inspection cover on the reverser box, although the photo doesn’t really show it very well. Firebox washout plugs also fitted, awaiting the mud hole covers.


Tim
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Hi Tim,
You need a better camera! :)

Are you saying some ST tenders had the + type and some the U type?

Please could you ask Tony if he can throw any light on the offset water filler/pick up set up. Convention would suggest things would be symmetrical about the centre line with the filler and the overflow to one side. The Gladiator kit is like that, but having seen the set up on Butler Henderson, like you I have gone with that. I just wondered if he knows if the BH set up is standard GCR?

Cheers,
Peter
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Understood Tim,

Many thanks. The + bracket will be very fragile on your 2mm tender. So far I haven't managed to bend mine while handling the model, but sooner or later I'm expecting to turn the air blue!

Cheers,
Peter
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
With the tender just about done, it's back to the loco. The inspection hatch on the reverser cover has been added from brass shim and a rivet for the handle.20191107_184600.jpg

At the front, to represent the rod from the handrail to the gizmo on the smokebox, I turned down the end of the handrail in the lathe using a file.20191106_183440.jpg

And pushed all the way home.
20191106_183506.jpg

Some wire rod has been soldered to the roof to keep it in place.
20191107_180755.jpg

At the cab front the rod on the roof presses on the cab sides/front plate, but at the rear some tube had been soldered to the cab side for the rod to locate in.
20191107_190644.jpg

The cab handrails and beading have now been added.
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On the loco chassis the sand pipes have been made and fitted.
20191107_184758.jpg

Having identified what the item under the firebox is after the visit to Barrow Hill, I have now made the return spring on the brake gear along with the the mounting bracket and adjuster. I've replaced the rather wide flat pull rods with wire and made the safety hook. To accomodate these parts, a bottom plate was added to the ash pan, but I have still to add the damper rod and bracket to the left hand side.
20191107_184626.jpg

20191107_184718.jpg

And from the side. I think it will look the part when the wheels are on and it's on the rails. I had a bit of an accident when fitting the ash pan bottom plate and melted part of the spring hanger which I will make good later. :rant:
20191107_184837.jpg

Cheers,
Peter
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Really useful seeing your build Peter, as it allows me to see how some of the GC details ‘work’.
I have made up the + fire iron support by silver soldering spring steel. I suspect it will draw blood before it finally succumbs to damage.
Tim

Either that, or it will rip off the tender side. I'm trying to picture how small it must be.

I've added further details to the tender and loco based on observations of Butler Henderson, but had to dash off before taking any photographs.

Cheers,
Peter
 
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Tim Watson

Western Thunderer
The + is well rooted through a discrete hole in the tender top, Peter.

I know you shouldn’t copy models, but between us we might get it right?

Tim
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
So, some further additions to the tender. First a representation of the operating lever on the scoop and the support trusses.
20191109_191652.jpg

At the front on the left of the frame is what I assume is condensation trap in the steam pipe.
20191109_191722.jpg

At the other side is the brake pipe.
20191109_191800.jpg

Here are the oil pipes and fixing brackets before fixing to the top of the left hand splasher.
20191109_191821.jpg

And after fixing to the splasher.
20191109_191551.jpg

I didn't have any cast oil boxes so made some up from square brass bar, with the lid added from one of the spare boiler bands. Although on Butler Henderson they are bracketed off the smokebox, I believe originally they were were bracketed of the frames. That said, I found it easier to fit them to the smoke box. Visibly it makes no difference.
20191109_191154.jpg

The position of the oil box looks is correct, but it does not line up with what I believe were the fixings as they are too far to the rear.
20191109_191021.jpg

Here's a low angle view of the return spring on the rear brake pull rod.
20191109_190901.jpg

20191109_190520.jpg

On the steam pipe a handle made from waste fret has been added to the spigot on the valve.
20191109_185436.jpg

There are still some cast oil pots to go on the frames either side of the smoke box, the feed water valve and pipe under the boiler and I still need to add the drain pipe to the ejector pipe, but that just about completes the external detailing.
20191109_185334.jpg

20191109_185400.jpg

20191109_185530.jpg

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Next, the backhead and then pick ups, motor and some lead weight over the driving wheels to counter balance the heavy front end.
Cheers,
Peter
 

Tony West

Western Thunderer
A most enjoyable thread !. I haven't visited this forum for some time so am only now just catching up. One or two observations if I may....
The 'gizmo' on the smoke box is/was a header discharge valve.
The 'ring' of rivets on the smoke box door was an LNE feature. Some loco's gained these early on but as far as I'm aware not as built !.
Fire iron brackets....yes +=ST and U= standard. I should mention here that only the last six 11F's built had the ST tender and then lost them to the Faringdons transferred to Kings cross in 1923, and so spent the next few years attached to 'standard' tenders...can be confusing !. I should also note that 506 BH was built with a standard type.
There is a drawing of a ST tender in the appendices of Eddie Johnson's Loco's of the GC vol 2.
Hope some of this helps.
Tony.
 
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P A D

Western Thunderer
Hi Tony,
Glad you have enjoyed the thread and many thanks for the comments which are most helpful.

Zeebrugge was one of the last six so began life with a ST tender. Good to have further confirmation on the + vs U fire iron hooks. The smokebox front is detachable so it will be easy to remove the rivets. I'm not sure if this is mentioned in the instructions and I missed it, but having looked again at period photos, I certainly missed it in the images.

As to the header discharge valve, this is identified in the instructions, but I could not remember its name and didn't have the instructions to hand.

Do you know if the water filler/pick up arrangement to the rear of the bunker as on BH is original, with the small offset box in front of the large one, with the medium box to the right of the other two?
20191102_104047.jpg
20191102_104112.jpg

To start with I went with the kit set up and then after seeing the set up on BH, decided to copy that. However, I'm still not sure which is correct.

Cheers,
Pete
 
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Tony West

Western Thunderer
DSCF7252.JPG DSCF7252.JPG DSCF7253.JPG DSCF7254.JPG DSCF7255.JPG DSCF7256.JPG Looks like you have the tender top about right !!. Just noticed.....on your tender the 'running plate' at the front of the tender widens out , this was a feature of 'standard' tenders attached to locos with wider cabs such as Directors, Sir Sams, Glenalmonds etc. Your last photo of BH and the drawing both confirm a straight edge on a ST tender ...sorry !!.
Cheers, Tony.
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Hi Tony,
No need to apologise. Thanks for the drawings and pointing out the running plate error. I've re-read the instructions and it's my mistake,
so tomorrow I'll consider if I can get out of jail. I have to admit, I have found this tender to be a bit of a mindfield, mostly of my own making.

I see from the drawing that the footsteps on the buffers are the same as on BH, which I assumed should be thinner and offset towards the front. No clue where I got that idea from.

Cheers,
Peter
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
So following the heads up from Tony West, further changes have been made. The tender running plate has been widened by the addition of strips down each side, supported by spare boiler bands underneath.
20191111_221148.jpg

20191111_221046.jpg

The bufferbeam was also widened to match the running plate.
20191111_220536.jpg

The drain holes in the tender rear top plate have also been drilled.
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The rivets on the smokebox door have been filed and rubbed smooth to remove them.
20191111_221224.jpg

20191111_215922.jpg

The final external details on the loco have also been added or preparation made to add them after painting. First the drain pipe on the ejector pipe. At the top the drain just slots into the ejector pipe, to final fixed with glue after painting. A bit more scraping of excess solder is on order.20191111_220324.jpg

On the frames either side of the smokebox, holes have been drilled for the oilpots which will be fixed after painting. The larger oil pot lower down on some engines is not on Zeebrugge , so will be left off.
20191111_220745.jpg

Underneath the boiler the feed water valve has been added.
20191111_220224.jpg

The control rod on the whistle has been added and the cab front plate drilled to accept it.
20191111_220025.jpg

20191111_215817.jpg

20191111_215635.jpg

The backhead is next.

Cheers,
Peter
 
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