JLTRT new build.
- Thread starter OzzyO
- Start date
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
I think you should be looking for an ABC +Maxon instead.
I've had a word with the owner about replacing the motor and gearbox, if we do replace them I would use an MSC helical type. The gearbox is milled out of solid brass giving a nice solid box.
The gearbox from the out side, it's a Slater's GB03 type.
and from the inside,
All of the bearings are roller bearings, when I turn the motor over by hand all appears to be free and in correct mesh. It could just be that these gearboxes are just a bit on the noisy side, I'll try giving it a number of hours running out of the loco and see if that quietens it down.
OzzyO.
OzzyO,
I have a Slaters GB03 motor/gearbox, purchased years ago. It's never been installed in a locomotive, due to the horrendous noise it makes. I have run it for many hours (both directions, varying speeds, etc), but the noise has never reduced, even a little. I wish you luck with trying to quieten it, but I have my doubts.
John B
San Diego
I have a Slaters GB03 motor/gearbox, purchased years ago. It's never been installed in a locomotive, due to the horrendous noise it makes. I have run it for many hours (both directions, varying speeds, etc), but the noise has never reduced, even a little. I wish you luck with trying to quieten it, but I have my doubts.
John B
San Diego
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
I think that could be why they don't produce them now, it's a pity as they do look nicely produced gears in the box, it's just the noise.
OzzyO.
Steph Dale
Western Thunderer
Horrendous things those gearboxes; as you say, there are good parts inside. I've had a couple through my hands over the years and they were both noisy. I suspect the nylon gear case just isn't rigid enough...
Steph
Steph
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Hello all,
I've had a suggestion passed on to me that could help with the noise of the gearbox. Going back a bit first, I think what maybe causing the noise is that the box sides could be slightly out of alignment not by much maybe 1 or 2 thou. This would have the effect of the balls running on one side of the ball groove at the top and the other side at the bottom, this would have the effect of making the bearings noisy (self aligning bearing will cope with this).
But back to the idea that I have been given by Pete Harvey it's to replace the roller bearing on one side with plain brass bearings. The hard part is not making the bearing but getting the roller bearings off the shaft without damaging the shaft ends.
But we will never know if this would have worked, as the owner of the loco has decided to replace the motor and gearbox with a MT helical 3 stage 40;1 one from MSC models. A good call I would say.
OzzyO.
I've had a suggestion passed on to me that could help with the noise of the gearbox. Going back a bit first, I think what maybe causing the noise is that the box sides could be slightly out of alignment not by much maybe 1 or 2 thou. This would have the effect of the balls running on one side of the ball groove at the top and the other side at the bottom, this would have the effect of making the bearings noisy (self aligning bearing will cope with this).
But back to the idea that I have been given by Pete Harvey it's to replace the roller bearing on one side with plain brass bearings. The hard part is not making the bearing but getting the roller bearings off the shaft without damaging the shaft ends.
But we will never know if this would have worked, as the owner of the loco has decided to replace the motor and gearbox with a MT helical 3 stage 40;1 one from MSC models. A good call I would say.
OzzyO.
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Hello all,
motor and gearbox arrived from MSC all look in good order, getting ready for some bench running in. The old and the new,
Fitted in to the loco frames and all wired up,
Then it was onto the test track for some running in. That was when some bloke came running in and kicked me in the chuds with his size nines. The running is almost silent, in reverse it runs at the sort of speed that I would expect but in forward it's about half the speed. At first I thought that I may have a problem with the controller so I turned the loco around so forward was reverse ETC. The same thing happened so I don't think that it's the controller.
I'm going to do some more testing today, the first job will be to drop the rods off and see if that makes any difference.
I have had a similar sort of problem once before with a Cannon motor, that one had a lot of end play in the motor shaft as you can see in the photos below,
When I opened up the motor this is what I found,
Is it going to be the same this time? If anyone has any ideas please let me know.
TIA
OzzyO.
motor and gearbox arrived from MSC all look in good order, getting ready for some bench running in. The old and the new,
Fitted in to the loco frames and all wired up,
Then it was onto the test track for some running in. That was when some bloke came running in and kicked me in the chuds with his size nines. The running is almost silent, in reverse it runs at the sort of speed that I would expect but in forward it's about half the speed. At first I thought that I may have a problem with the controller so I turned the loco around so forward was reverse ETC. The same thing happened so I don't think that it's the controller.
I'm going to do some more testing today, the first job will be to drop the rods off and see if that makes any difference.
I have had a similar sort of problem once before with a Cannon motor, that one had a lot of end play in the motor shaft as you can see in the photos below,
When I opened up the motor this is what I found,
Is it going to be the same this time? If anyone has any ideas please let me know.
TIA
OzzyO.
Compton castle
Western Thunderer
I hope it's not the same problem !!
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
You and me both.
If I can work out the problem it should not take as long to fix (I hope), as I have the loco here.
Compton castle
Western Thunderer
Fingers crossed then mate
mickoo
Western Thunderer
That's a lot of end float!
Some is acceptable but not that much, all you need do is add some suitable washers/spacers to the end of the shaft before it goes into the bearing on the inside and stop the armature from touching the outer can, just keep adding washers until all you have a small amount of end float and test.
Some is acceptable but not that much, all you need do is add some suitable washers/spacers to the end of the shaft before it goes into the bearing on the inside and stop the armature from touching the outer can, just keep adding washers until all you have a small amount of end float and test.
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
That was Steve's motor in 2012 some of the com wires were warn through and this did kill the motor.
Up till that time I'd not had a problem with a Cannon motor, after that one I normally check the end float to see that its about 0.5mm.
When I was running the motor yesterday I did notice that the controller made a noise that it tends to make if it detects an intermittent short but it was not enough to shut it down. I'm starting to think that the brush gear could be making contact with the com. windings and shorting out one of the windings. I don't know if this would give me the problem of the slow speed in one direction though.
The above test was done with the motor/gearbox only driving one wheel (ie. the rods had been removed). The reason that I'm starting to think about the brush gear is when I looked at this photo of the 2012 armature, there is not a lot of clearance between the brush gear and the windings., and the sound like an intermittent short.
I did speak to David? at MSC yesterday and I am going to return the motor/gearbox back to him after Xmas.
Will this put me off using a Cannon motor and MSC gearbox, in a word NO. I have used a good number of them and they work very well, almost on a par with a core-less set-up. I've used them on large locos that have to work very hard on a large layout with 12 coaches behind them and up to this motor Steve's had been the only one to fail.
The one thing that has been a surprise is how quick this problem showed up, after only about 2 or 3 hours running.
OzzyO.
Compton castle
Western Thunderer
How about a few pictures of Anne for us to see on here
OzzyO
Western Thunderer
Hello all,
as you can see the title has changed it's not strictly true as the kit is an original Malcolm Mitchell kit. The first job is to solder two lengths of brass together and mark them out,
Then drill six holes, as someone may have said, can you tell what it is yet?
Then after cutting all the scrap off you end up with this, I may tidy up some of the corners a bit more,
Then after splitting the two parts,
If you haven't worked out what they are yet, they are the two sides for the tender compensation beams.
OzzyO.
as you can see the title has changed it's not strictly true as the kit is an original Malcolm Mitchell kit. The first job is to solder two lengths of brass together and mark them out,
Then drill six holes, as someone may have said, can you tell what it is yet?
Then after cutting all the scrap off you end up with this, I may tidy up some of the corners a bit more,
Then after splitting the two parts,
If you haven't worked out what they are yet, they are the two sides for the tender compensation beams.
OzzyO.
Compton castle
Western Thunderer
Is this for a castle tender or a grange ?