JLTRT new build.

OzzyO

Western Thunderer
Is this for a castle tender or a grange ?

Glad you reminded me Steve I was thinking that the Castle had a Hawksworth tender not a Collett one. So it's now two Collett 4000 gallon tenders. So the first job was to make another set of compensation beams, the second set have 1/4" holes for the bearings as this one will use 3/16" axles, looking at this photo it looks like I'm going to have to re-drill a pair of holes on the left hand set,
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The bits with blue marks on them will be cut off after the two frames are soldered together and the holes will also be drilled,
001 006.jpg
Getting ready to solder the frames together, if both frames had the same size bearing I'd have done all four together,
001 007.jpg
You can sometimes get this with the inner frames, if I'd remember this I'd have swapped the frames about,
001 008.jpg
After chopping off the bits that I didn't want and drilling most of the holes. The only ones left to do are the six 0.5mm ones for the fixings for the safety chains. After the frames have been split one of the front brackets has to be cut off and one modified to a better shape,
001 009.jpg

OzzyO.
 
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OzzyO

Western Thunderer
Hello Mr. 3 Link I keep forgetting that these are what you want.
2.JPG

Mr.OzzyO.

PS. give me a bell over the weekend but not when the rugby's on tomorrow (Sat.). Lets hope that Italy and Scotland win, not much chance of that! Though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

OzzyO

Western Thunderer
Hello all,
a good win for England of Friday night. The clearance hole re-drilled in the correct place,
001 010.jpg
The four frames split apart and one of the bearings for the scoop shaft in place,
001 011.jpg
The spacers formed to shape and any bits cut off that I don't want, No.4 should be the other way around with the up-stand to the right,
001 012.jpg
and in place on one of the frames,
001 014.jpg
The vac. cylinder modified to make it easer to get the front fixing screw in place, you can't see this when the tender is in its normal running position,
001 013.jpg
The frames assembled, this was when I realised that I'd used the wrong sized frame spacers (the wickedest ones) its not a big problem it just means that I'll have to use some tube to hold the vac. cylinder in place and the wheels won't have as much clearance on the frames, 27.7mm rather than approx. 26mm over the outside of the frames.
001 015.jpg
Starting work on the outer frames, the first job is to cut off 1.5mm from all of the buffer beams corners,
001 016.jpg

Starting to form the embossed rivets,
001 017.jpg 001 018.jpg

Getting ready to form the valances on the tender running plate, I normally leave about 10 thou. between the bending bars and the etched line, this allows the sides to be over bent and then brought back to 90Deg.
001 020.jpg 001 019.jpg
Both valances bent down and the front steps formed to shape, and test fitting the inner frames in position, the next job will be to add some strengthening strips down the back of the steps,
001 021.jpg
OzzyO.
 

Compton castle

Western Thunderer
Il give you a like for your building skills, your opening comment could lead to all out war!!!
Only joshing, I've sent you some cash for you to get the bits of brass etc.
Cheers.
 
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OzzyO

Western Thunderer
Hello all,

just a quick update on the tenders builds. The first thing is to add some strengthening strips down the back of the steps, for this I used some scrap N/S etches about 1mm wide,
001 022.jpg
Before fitting the outer frames in place I scribed two lines at 54 & 106mm from the rear, these are the positions for the tank supports,
001 023.jpg
A close up of the axlebox keeper plates, on these the half etched fold line goes on the outside,
001 024.jpg
The first one of the outer frames tack soldered in place, this will get seam soldered after the second one is in place,
001 025.jpg
The second side in place and the first side seam soldered in place, you may have noticed that I have not yet soldered it to the inner face of the buffer beam. I will do this after I am satisfied that it is square and true,
001 026.jpg
Test fitting the inner frames in place again, and all was well,
001 027.jpg
The next job is to scribe a line 1mm below the oblong holes in the outer side frames. This is to help align the springs and hangers when the time comes to fit them,
001 028.jpg
OzzyO.
 

Len Cattley

Western Thunderer
Hi OzzyO I noticed that you didn't put a cutout in the outside frames for the buffers did you allow for this in buffer housing?

Len
 

OzzyO

Western Thunderer
Hello Len, all,

I don't like cutting slots in the frames, I know it's hard to see behind the rear steps. All I tend to do is file the rear collar down until its just about to break through in to the hole for the rear buffer shank.
Just like you have two types of outer frames you also have two types of tank supports, as you can see, I'm using the longer latter type, the problem with this is that there are only four of the long rivet strips, but this can be sorted out latter,
001 029.jpg
The first three in place with the rivet strip fixed in place in the two on the right,
001 030.jpg
The way I sort the rivet strip out for the rear tank support is to fix a short one in place at the bottom of the support and trim one to fit above it, the joint shows up a lot in this photo but on the model its just about invisible,
001 031.jpg
This is something that I do on all my models that have the fixing spacer set below the top of the frames, it's just a couple of washer soldered above the fixing hole and filed to the same level as the top of the frames. I do this for two reasons it stops the spacer being pulled up to the tank and it stops the tank bottom from being pulled down. As both of these things can affect the frames or the look of the body,
001 032.jpg
You also have to remove the two rear tabs from above the top of the outer frame, these are the only ones that you need to remove,
001 033.jpg
Getting the valance over-lays ready,
001 034.jpg
and soldered in place, I've seen some good models spoilt by these being fixed wrong. The correct way is the large number of rivets above the front steps and the sets of three rivets in a V formation,
001 035.jpg

OzzyO.
 

JohnFla

Western Thunderer
Jeez OzzyO following you is like trying to work out how far ahead a snooker player is working out his next next next next shot :)
 

OzzyO

Western Thunderer
Hello all,
first some good rugby over the weekend. Second get a brew as this could be a long post. The inner body for the tender, the first thing is to remove the parts that are in some of the cut-out and keep them safe, then clean off the tags I tend to file a bit out where the hopper sides will fit to the hopper back,
003 001.jpg
The body in place in some bending bars that I made for G.W.R. tenders,
003 002.jpg
The first bend being formed,
003 003.jpg
The second bend the hopper side,
003 004.jpg
The top formed, all of these bends want to be at 90Deg to the sides,
003 005.jpg
The same has been done to the second side and the rear of the hopper folded down, I fit this to the outside of the sides,
003 006.jpg
The rear panel folded down, I don't tend to lock the sides and rear with solder at this stage,
003 007.jpg
Tinning the bottom of the sides and rear. I've also soldered the hopper sides in place.
003 008.jpg
The inner body tack soldered using just the tabs and slots, before soldering the running plate make sure that you solder the fixing nuts in place,
003 009.jpg
The front seam soldered in place, I also seam soldered the body sides in place,
003 010.jpg
003 012.jpg
I also cut two slots in the inner front plate, the reason for this will become apparent latter on,
003 013.jpg
Getting ready to form the flare on the tender body using a former that I made a number of years back,
003 011.jpg
Before forming the flare I mark out the cut-outs on the inside of the body,
003 014.jpg
Getting read to form the flare, the tool of choice is at the back of the vice, I know it may look a bit of overkill but it works for me,
003 015.jpg
I'll post some more after I've had my tea,

OzzyO.
 
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OzzyO

Western Thunderer
Hello all,
the second part of my post, the flare formed on the body side,
003 017.jpg
Tinning the inside of the tender body for this I'm using 145Deg. solder, looking at the photos I think I should have cropped them,
003 018.jpg
The inner body tinned first with 145Deg. solder. Then over tinning with 70Deg. solder, I'm leaving the bottom edge with 145 Deg. as I'll be using the RSU to fix the rivet strips in place. This job takes a bit of time to do but it only has to be done once (well twice in my case),
003 019.jpg 003 020.jpg
Getting ready to form the rear bends on another jig that I made a while back, it could really have done with a bigger base plate but this was the biggest bit of aluminium that I had,
003 021.jpg
Both bends formed and ready for fitting to the tender body, that's the first job for tomorrow,
003 022.jpg

OzzyO.
 

OzzyO

Western Thunderer
Hello all,

getting ready to put its overcoat on, I have jacked up the outer body so that I can mark where the inner body starts and finishes, I don't want to go blowing a hole through the body work with my R.S.U.
003 023.jpg
After zapping the rear bottom edge of the tender body in place, it was time to start along the body sides proper. I'm using a pencil to show where I'll use the R.S.U.
003 024.jpg
After soldering the bottom edges of the outer body in place it was time to solder the main part in place. As I'd used 70Deg. solder as the second tinning I could get away without having to use too much heat and risk buckling the sides,
003 025.jpg 003 026.jpg
Adding the rivet strip along the bottom of the tank side, for this job I tinned the back of the rivet strip with 145Deg. solder lots of flux and a lot of zapping and the job is done along the body side. This is also why I did not tin the bottom of the inner body work with 70Deg. solder, note that the rivets go to the top of the rivet strip with the end that has some rivets with larger spacings go to the front end,
003 027.jpg
The rivet strip at the back of the tender, it's over length so that you can cut them to length and with some luck get a nice joint between the two of them,
003 028.jpg

The next few photos show the second rivet strip in place. The first one is cut so that the joint will be about in the middle, then the second one is placed under the first and marked where to cut it.
003 029.jpg 003 030.jpg 003 031.jpg
All four of the strips in place showing the joints, they may look like big gaps in the photo but in real life they are only about three or four thou.
003 032.jpg

The next jobs will be to fit the rear steps and rear handrails in place.
One of the jobs a bit latter on will be the fitting of the lamp irons, this is where the fun can start. When you look at the following photo you can see that the bottom lamp irons can be on the buffer beam (plank) or on the running plate the top one seems to be pretty constant on the body work but some times it can be on the rear fender. What is the most common placing for the lamp irons? Any help would be appreciated.
Gallery4700SPM.jpg Gallery4701OldOakCommon.jpg
0540-4930-Bewdley-Slide-0984-No_600px.jpg BS-150413_-116-Collett-Tender-for-use-with-4930_600px.jpg DSCF0481.JPG

TFAH

OzzyO.
 

OzzyO

Western Thunderer
Hello all,

I think that you could be right Martyn, Steve 6869 &5010 thanks for any help.
I've had a good look at the above photos to see if there's a pattern to the lamp irons, and frame brackets. The abbreviations that I'm using are, S.T.B.= short tank bracket, L.T.B.= long tank bracket, B/B = buffer beam, T.L.I.= top lamp iron.
From the top.
4700, L.T.B. / B/B. T.L.I. body,
4701, S.T.B. / body, T.L.I. body,
Shirt button, B/B, T.L.I. body,
B.R. L.T.B. / Body, T.L.I. body.
Back, L.T.B. / B/B, T.L.I. body. Note the two rivets on the fender to the left of the joint line.
G/A, S.T.B. / B/B, T.L.I. fender.

So looking at the above I'd say that there's no relation to the tank brackets and the lamp irons so what to do? The reason that I've mentioned the two rivets on the fender is that I've seen photos showing the top lamp iron mounted on the fender, it also helps to cover the joint line.
So what do yous think?

OzzyO.
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
I'm going to guess here, as my knowledge of GWR fits between those three letters!

But, my guess on the lamp irons will be build lots and the tenders may have been swapped around the locos or even classes of locos, much like the LNER did with A3's and A4's.
 

Dave Bowden

Western Thunderer
I'm going to guess here, as my knowledge of GWR fits between those three letters!

But, my guess on the lamp irons will be build lots and the tenders may have been swapped around the locos or even classes of locos, much like the LNER did with A3's and A4's.
Hi All

If anyone has the required tender number then I can tell them the lot and build date plus details.

Dave
 

OzzyO

Western Thunderer
Hello all,
starting on some of the details on the back of the tenders, first the steps,
003 033.jpg
and in place,
003 034.jpg
Then fixing one handrail knob to the rear handrails for these I've used 0.7mm N/S wire,
003 035.jpg
Then it was onto the front coal plate this part contains 8 parts. For the small brackets for the water on/off levers I've used the two spare top handrail fixings that are the ones that are the slightly larger,
003 036.jpg
On the rear of the top of the coal doors I've added a length of 1mm square brass to help make it look a bit more like the real thing,
003 037.jpg
In place, I'm starting to fit the front handrails at the base I'm using some 1mm top-hat bearings from Markits, you can just make out the top fittings for the handrails,
003 038.jpg
Using my high tec. spacing tool to set the hand rails,
003 039.jpg
I'm only fitting the tender footplate to one of the tenders as I want to check the footplate hight on the second one,
003 040.jpg
From underneath showing before and after cleaning up, for this I tend to use a thick slitting disc used like an angle grinder,
003 041.jpg
Starting to fill in the rear corners. To do this I solder a length of 0.35mm copper wire around the top corner and fill in with plumbers solder,
003 042.jpg

More to follow later,

OzzyO.
 

OzzyO

Western Thunderer
Hello all,
part two, one of the rear corners from below, I have filled in the small hole on the left. I normally file the corners up at this stage but on these two I'm going to fit the coal raves first and then file the corners up,
003 043.jpg
The tender top from above and below, I tend to file off 1/32" off both sides between the uprights,
003 044.jpg

The bottom one filed up,
003 045.jpg
When you fit the top plate to the front of the tender and check the slots for the front top coal plates you notice that the two sets of slots are a bit out, notice the pencil lines,
003 046.jpg
The back one cut off,
003 047.jpg
Then I do this to the tender top,
003 048.jpg
Then bend the up rights to approx. 90Degs.,
003 049.jpg
The next job is to solder the two rear coal plates together, notice the small step on this side of the coal plate this is to fit against the etched rib across the tender in front of the two etched slots,
003 050.jpg
This is the reason for cutting the top plate in half. To get a nice tight fit between the top plate and the tender front I've also left the parts between the two top pieces to help keep them parallel,
003 051.jpg
Test fitting the rear part of the tender top in place. You can see the small gap between the front and rear half's of the tender top. The boxes with the Xs in them are where there are holes in the inner tender former ( I don't want to go zapping these bits with the RSU and blowing a hole through the top plate). The rear coal plate will need a bit of fitting to get a good fit between the coal raves and the tender top,
003 052.jpg

OzzyO.
 

OzzyO

Western Thunderer
Hello all,
just a quick update on the tenders builds, the two coal raves in place. To fit these I tend to tack solder the front and rears first then zap the up stands to the raves and then seam solder along the bottom edges,
003 053.jpg
Forming the tool racks to shape,
003 054.jpg
003 055.jpg
003 056.jpg
Front coal plates and rear coal plate in place. The rear one did require a bit of fitting, but I'd rather have to do a bit of fitting than have to extend the plate,
003 057.jpg
The first of the top corners formed to shape, this was done around a 6mm drill,
003 058.jpg
Then the extra length of the rear plate is cut off,
003 059.jpg
OzzyO.
 
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