7mm Stanier 3P 2-6-2

adrian

Flying Squad
The two pieces that will show on the outside each side have had the detail added with 220 degree solder. Hopefully, nothing will fall off during subsequent soldering with 145!
Very nice - although I would just like to point out that if you'd silver soldered the detail on then I could guarantee nothing would fall off when you soft-soldered them to the motion bracket. :rolleyes:
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Very nice - although I would just like to point out that if you'd silver soldered the detail on then I could guarantee nothing would fall off when you soft-soldered them to the motion bracket. :rolleyes:

Silver solder is for pussies! Real men like the risk that soft soldering involves. :p:D Mind you, when all the little bits fall of the brackets I'm going to:'(.

Getting back to the the brake rigging and the clearance issues with the rear truck, I decided that the way forward was to model the U frame on the truck as per the prototype. This will allow more clearance for whatever representation of the brake crank and bracket that I may add. Also I've learned via RMWEB that Mike Edge is going to redraw the rear truck frame to a U section and I can't have the 4mm boys getting the better of me. ;)

Keeping it nickel silver, the thickest sheet I have is 15 thou so I've gone with that. Here's the truck with the existing A frame. I say A frame as there should be a cross member part way between the pivot and the truck. There's also one on the U framd and I may add that later depending on clearance for the brake rigging. On the right is the sheet of 15 thou marked out with holes drilled to remove the excess metal.
20200207_193705.jpg

Here the U frame has been laid on the top of the existing frame to show the additional clearance it will provide.
20200207_193640.jpg

Here's the new frame after fitting to the truck and adding the side bracing. The original frame was desoldered either side and removed quite easily. I have also added the missing rear frame spacer in this view, although the front recessed one is still in place.
20200207_193615.jpg

This image shows both trucks after having removed the front spacer on both and repositioned flush with the front edges of the truck frames. The rear plate has also now been added to the rear of the front truck. I've still to add further details to the trucks to beaf them up.
20200207_193532.jpg

The original A frame was quite easily removed from the truck
20200207_193555.jpg

And with the wheels in.
20200207_193459.jpg

Clearly, there's much more space now to add the brake crank and bracket. I intend to make this detachable with the pull rod just pushed into the shackle on the cross beam. I'll add a spacer to the main frames and the brake crank bracket will be screwed to this.
20200207_193439.jpg

Visually, the new frame doesn't bring much to the party when viewed from the side, which is why I had hoped I could gat away with the original.20200207_193119.jpg

In this view from the front, the repositioned spacer can now be seen to be flush with the frame edges.20200207_192915.jpg
And the same with the rear.20200207_192829.jpg

From the side, the modified truck looks no different and will be even more obscured when the cab steps are added, but the main benefit is the clearance offered for the brake rigging.
20200207_193359.jpg

I need to add a washer to the front pivot to lowere the rear so that the frame is horizontal.
20200207_193320.jpg

Cheers,
Peter
 
Last edited:

P A D

Western Thunderer
Hi Adrian,
I didn't time it but I believe the time spent chain drilling and snipping out the excess metal was less than I would have spent using the saw. Sure there was more filing required, but with the part clamped in the vice it wasn't too onerous.

Being serious about your silver solder comment, you are of course correct. However, up to date I've managed with 145 and 224 and (famous last words asside) I don't envisage any problem with the motion brackets. Plenty of flux, in and out quick with the iron, job's a good un. OR NOT! :(
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
I agree with P A D. When it comes to using just one solder for everything, I suppose one gets to become a talented chancer!

Hi Larry,
Doesn't do the air quality much good when it turns blue after bits starts falling off! :rant::rant::rant:

Adrian makes a good point though, but in my case I can't see enough occasions when it would be worth while using silver solder. I'm a kit builder who only scratch builds the odd part or two when necessary. I recall reading Adrian's description of making LMS type lamp irons using silver solder and L section strip, which allows for a much finer bracket to be made, than is possible by simply folding them up from strip as I have done on the rear of the 3P.

Cheers,
Peter
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
So with the truck frame modified to give the required clearance, the brake crank and bracket were scratched up from waste fret and rod. To be on the safe side I reduced the width of the bracket by a couple of mm and made the hand brake crank as part of the main crank for simplicity. Another layer of waste fret was soldered between the frames at the top, then drilled and tapped 10BA for the fixing screw.
20200210_220602.jpg

The brake cylinder piston rod had be represented, but not the cylinder as it is hidden from view unless the model is inverted.
20200210_220627.jpg

The pull rod to the rear cross beam inserts into the shackle and then the bracket is screwed to a spacer between the frames.
20200210_220524.jpg

The tensioner for the hand brake was made from 0.7mm NS rod folded into a u shape with an additional straight piece soldered into the gap. After fettling up with a file it looks like a flat bar with a slot in it.
20200210_220448.jpg

Here you can see the additional spacer added for mounting the brake shaft bracket.
20200210_220418.jpg

First the truck has to be screwed in.
20200210_220358.jpg

Then the pull rod is located in the hole in the shackle of the rear cross beam and the bracket placed onto the spacer between the truck frame. It is then retained by a screw from above.
20200210_220332.jpg

You can see the brake cylinder piston rod disappearing up between the U frame, but if the cylinder had been added, it would have been completely out of view.
20200210_220230.jpg

There's plenty of clearance for the truck to swing so there should be no problems on the curves.
20200210_220014.jpg


Visually, on the rails there's not a lot to be seen even before the cab footstep is added.
20200210_215833.jpg

I finished off today with a nice simple bit of scratch building by making the driving wheel balance weights from 20 thou plastikard.
20200210_215927.jpg

Cheers,
Peter
 
Last edited:

P A D

Western Thunderer
I thought it was about time I got the cylinders, slidebars and motion bracket together so I can start on the valve gear. First up the crosshead, which is laminated from 5 pieces. The three upper pieces laminate to form the sliding surfaces and need to be assembled so that the opening for oiling the small end of the connecting rod in the outer faces is not blocked.
20200211_181530.jpg

This view of the sliders after laminating shows the curve at the top to clear the oiling hole.
20200211_181510.jpg

The slider and outer faces were lined up against two pieces of rod inserted into a strip of wood, held at the rear and tack soldered at the front. Once both sides were on the crosshead was clamped in a pair of pliers to complete the soldering.
20200211_181438.jpg

On the motion bracket, I added the expansion link supports. I decided the metal I cut them from was too thin, so I laminated the inner brackets to the inner face of the outer brackets and cleaned up. his gave a more acceptable thickness for these parts. Two new inner brackets were knocked up from thicker waste fret, although they have a simpler tapered shape as they won't be visible. The intention is to pivot the expansion link on a 12 BA bolt screwed in from the outside, so the inner bracket was drilled and tapped 12BA. The outer brackets were added first and then the inner ones were lined up using a bolt and nut before soldering.
20200211_181412.jpg

Although I have some Laurie Griffin cast slidebars and crosshead that I could use, they are not correct for the 3P so I'm going with the etchings. Here's where I've got to so far, with one set of slidebars laminated ready for fitting. The upper slide bar has the oilpot etched on two of the laminates and should look the part afting painting brass and weathering. The NS rod is just pushed into the crosshead for the photo.
20200211_181345.jpg

Cheers,
Peter
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
......... the brake rigging and the clearance issues with the rear truck, I decided that the way forward was to model the U frame on the truck as per the prototype........

Cheers,
Peter
Just won myself a tenner :thumbs:

Knew you wouldn't let it rest, all that bunkum about being underneath and not visible....pahh :p

Regarding visuals, I disagree, it makes all the difference, the eye catches and notices these little parts that are just not so and a tapered trailing truck is.....just not so.
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Well my efforts on Wednesday and Thursday to get the crossheads and slidebars in place came to nothing.
To improve the appearance of the crosshead I knocked up a a flange from NS rod for the base of the piston rod, to replace the flat etch representation on the crosshead. You can maybe get away with the etching in 4mm but I was not happy with it. Here's the flange with the crosshead before I cut off the etch representation.
20200213_144351.jpg

Here's on of the crossheads slidebars and rear cylinder covers ready to fit. There's another overlay to go on the crosshead with the drop link but I was leaving that until later. The piston rod was added from 1.6mm NS rod and the tube in the cylinder was knocked up from some 5mm NS rod that I had in stock. This had to be drilled and turned down in the lathe to fit the holes in the cylinder.20200212_181618.jpg

Long story short, after all the time an effort in preparing the etched parts and knocking up parts in the lathe, I simply could not get the slidebars aligned correctly to allow the crosshead to run smoothly. Mike Edge got them to work on his build so I wanted to give it a go, as the slide bars are correct for the 3P, whereas the cast one from Laurie Griffin for the Ivatt 2P are not. The pragmatic decision was to ditch the etchings and modify the Griffin slide bars and fit them instead. Here's one of the slidebar and stuffing gland casting in the vice for preparation. First I ground off the lubrication points on the upper bars, then clamping the strengthening flange in the vice, the inner surfaces were filed and polished to remove the mould lines.
20200214_203601.jpg

To prevent the bars from flexing during filing of the flanges, a length of rod was temporarily soldered between them.
20200214_204025.jpg

Here the completed slide bar set is shown next to the other before it had the flanges removed. Yes, I know that the profile of the bars is now incorrect, but I can live with that. As I wanted to keep the tube in the cylinders, I cut off the cast piston rods, drilled out the bases and replaced them with the 1.6mm NS rod removed from the discarded etched ones. I also filed down the face of the drop link to reduce its thickness.
20200214_203832.jpg

To align the Griffin cylinder covers, the stuffing gland and piston rod were push through I to the tube, and the cover tack soldered. After removal of the gland and piston rod, the cover was soldered up all round. Here both covers are inplace and have been cleaned up. I scribed a vertical line on the rear cylinder plate either side to help with the alignment of the slidebars. The relief valve is cast in-situe on the cover plate.20200214_203452.jpg

As can be seen from this angle, the tube for the piston rod has been drilled at the front end so it doesn't act like a compressors when the front end is sealed by the front cylinder cover. Both slidebars are now in place and the motion bracket added. If the crossheads are set at the bracket and the unit then place vertical, they both fall smoothly to the bottom under their own weight.
20200214_203237.jpg
The motion bracket will need a little filler where the expansion link brackets are on the front but that will come later.


20200214_203314.jpg

And located in the frames.
20200214_203204.jpg

The slot behind the rear cylinder plate in the frames is for one of the running plate supports, which I had to remove to allow the cylinder unit to be got in and out of the frames. I will solder the supports under the ru ning p,are instead. The ends of the slidebars will receive further filing later to finish them off.
20200214_203014.jpg

Finally a couple of views with the chassis in the body.
20200214_202822.jpg

The steampipes are only blutacked in place until I make the flanges.
20200214_202954.jpg

The motion bracket has been set parallel with the rear cylinder plate using calipers, so if it doesn't look to be, then it is down to the camera perspective.
20200214_204213.jpg

Cheers,
Peter
 
Last edited:

LarryG

Western Thunderer
Looking pretty damn good. And you have the satisfaction of knowing that not many other folk will ever have one.

I have a soft spot for them. Weak or not, they ran Conway Valley passenger services day-in day-out for some years as well as services on the Wirral and Cheshire Lines.
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Thanks Larry.
At the moment it's one of a pair unless Mike Edge developes it into a kit.

It's a shame one of the class wasn't preserved, as like the Stanier Mogul, we may have found it was not quite the lemon it is made out to be. Or maybe it was.

I'm not happy with the flat profile of the slide bars and I think I can make and add a shaped piece of waste etch to the upper and lower faces. Watch this space.

Cheers,
Peter
 

LarryG

Western Thunderer
The last of Lees's (26F) allocation of Fowler 2-6-2T's had gone a couple of years before I started there, but a chat with the men that had to work and maintain them left one in no doubt they were lemons. But I cannot figure out why the Stanier 2-6-2T was a poor 'un. The chassis was a modern 'engine' part with long lap valves, and one assumes they had better bearings than fitted hitherto, so maybe the Stanier boiler wasn't up to the mark. Once the tiny 'powerpack' Ivatt Class 2 2-6-2T arrived on the scene and comparisons could be made, everything in the LMS Class 3 range must have looked poor.
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
To beef up the slide bars I cut 4 lengths of waste fret and soldered them to a rectangle of nickel silver. I then marked where the slope should be and filed and rub down all 4 together. After desoldering from the backing plate, I added a strip of 10 thou NS to the central part and followed by further rubbing down.
20200215_213303.jpg

I then soldered the composite strips to the slide bars followed by further shaping with emery paper.
20200216_205417.jpg

I didn't have any suitable cast oil pots so had to knock some up from square brass section.
20200215_213205.jpg

After that I fitted the remaining cast parts to the cylinders and added the plugs to the wrapper shoulder from NS rod. The cylinder front plate and relief valve are Griffin castings and the front valve chest cover is from the spares box. The valve tail rod covers have been removed as on the prototype they protruded through the drop in the running plate and will be represented by some NS rod soldered to a hole drilled in the running plate.
20200216_205417.jpg

I also made up the connecting rods and fitted them to the crossheads.
20200216_205350.jpg

And in the frames. I had to file the underside of the motion bracket where it crosses the front wheel flange and will do a it more later.
20200216_205106.jpg

The "reprofiled" slide bars are not perfect, but much better than they were and I'm happy with the result. The rear valve chest cover was much too long and needed turning down in the lather to remove about 3mm or so, before the valve slide bars were fitted.
20200216_204650.jpg

The cast slidebars and crosshead take up more room than the etched parts, but with the recessed crankpin Bush, there is just enough clearance.
20200216_204908.jpg

The running plate support bracket which I removed from the frames is now fitted under the running plate and drops into the slots in the frames.
20200215_213048.jpg

At the rear, I added the adjuster to the pull rod to complete this area.
20200215_213233.jpg

The pony wheels touch the cylinder relief valves as maximum swing, so that may be a problem on the curves, but I need to test that.
20200216_204625.jpg

20200216_205039.jpg

Cheers,
Peter
 

Dave Holt

Western Thunderer
Peter,
This is all looking rather nice. I doubt that the relieve valve contact will be a problem on reasonable curves and point work. I always find interference with the back of the front foot steps to be a far bigger problem. On my current Black 5, I'm going to move the front steps out by 0.5 mm per side as my previous one has rubbed the paint off the front bogie wheels in use - too close for comfort.
Dave.
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Thanks Dave.
You were right, the relief valves are not a problem, but I'll wait and see how it goes with the steps on.

The etchings are scaled up from the 4mm version and most of the parts for the valve gear are single thickness . Here are the parts for the expansion link and radius rod. The expansion link had half etched rivet detail, but I drilled them out and used the holes to align the parts with 0.5mm rod, which also passes for the fixing bolts after soldering and cleaning up. Only the ends of the central part of the expansion link were used so that the radius rod could pass through. An extra hole was drilled below the pivot hole to set the motion in forward gear. To have a forked joint at the front of the radius rod, I laminated a piece of waste fret to the rear and after shaping the fork, drilled through for the fixing pin.
20200217_220607.jpg

Here's the rest of the parts prepared ready for fitting. The eccentric rod and union link were also single thickness, so again waste fret was soldered to the rear to double them up and improve the appearance and strength. This also allowed forked joints to be made on the union links. The various rods were mainly pinned with 0.9mm NS rod, but for the expansion link to eccentric rod there was no fork in the former, so I turned up a shouldered pin from 1.6mm NS rod. Just for interest, the etched parts for the valve rod slides are shown a the bottom.
20200217_220510.jpg

The return crank is soldered to a Slaters crank pin bush, tapped 10 BA and three 8BA washers were laminated and reamed out to fit the bush, to act as a spacer between the connecting rod and the coupling rod.
20200217_220216.jpg

Here's the return crank screwed to the crankpin and the angle set by turning the 10 BA screw from the rear. Unfortunately, the return crank comes with a hole etched in the center so the screw shows.
20200217_220321.jpg

Here's the left hand valve gear installed on the chassis.20200217_220043.jpg

It's was quite time consuming to do but I'm pleased with the result.
20200217_215832.jpg
I'm pleased to say that it all runs smoothly with no binding.
20200217_220022.jpg

Well apart from the centre driving wheel knocking, but only with the body on. It turned out to be the "cork" in the big end of the connecting rod touching the underside of the running plate at the top of the stroke. Never had that issue before. I'll grind some metal away on the running plate and that will solve it. Tomorrow I'll add the parts to the other side.20200217_215740.jpg

Cheers,
Peter
 

P A D

Western Thunderer
Some grinding and filing of the running plate has cured the issue with the connecting rod "cork" knocking at the top of the stroke.
20200218_222655.jpg

To improve the appearance of the return crank, an overlay was knocked up from 10 thou NS sheet and soldered to the outer face. The position of the "bolts" was marked on the overlay and holes were drilled before fitting to the return crank.
20200218_222829.jpg

The lifting links and weight shaft have been added and the weight shaft brackets and bearings scratched up from 15 thou NS sheet. The weight shaft had yet to be trimmed in this image and as I write, I've just realised I forgot to fit the reversing lever.:rant:
20200218_222745.jpg

Here's the weight shaft brackets before fitting.
20200218_194831.jpg
20200218_194813.jpg

The right hand valve gear has now been fitted.
20200219_200429.jpg

The middle sand fillers were made from a length of rod drilled at each end for the Griffin cast lids to locate. They fit at an incline through an aperture in the frames, so to facilitate this, the rod was sawed through half way at the mid point, annealed and then bent to a suitable angle. A flat was then filed on the outer face of the bend and this was then drilled and tapped 12BA to allow the filler pipes to be screwed to the spacer beneath the apertures.
20200219_112309.jpg

Here they are screwed in place.
20200219_112523.jpg

And a view from the side with the lid added.
20200219_121706.jpg

The rear sand boxes sourced from JPL Models have been epoxied to the frames after fitting the lids from Laurie Griffin and sand valves from Peter Roles.
20200219_200354.jpg

Here with the rods at the top of the stroke, the sand valves can be seen.
20200219_200407.jpg

And to win Mickoo another tenner, I added a brake cylinder that I found in the spares box. I've no idea what it was for, but it's about the right size and only needed drilling and gluing to the brake piston rod, so I thought why not.
20200219_215859.jpg

Here's the safety valves after modification. The one on the left is how they come (JPL), but they weren't really up to the mark, so it gave me another excuse to play with the lathe.
20200219_183451.jpg

Here they are in place on the firebox along with the water level gauge on the tank top in front of the cab forward lookout.
20200219_215757.jpg

Apart from the footsteps and water tank balancing pipes, the bulk of the etchings are now on and the model is substantially complete. However, there are still lots of details to add and of course the back plate is still to do. Then there's the matter of motor and pick ups.
20200219_215630.jpg

Cheers,
Peter
 
Last edited:
Top