A first kit-build: 3500 Gallon Churchward Tender - 4mm Scale.

jonte

Western Thunderer
With the benefit of a short blow, fellow Westerners, I’ve resigned myself to accepting that the flare is fine after all.

It even compares with a modern Hornby offering so I must be along the right lines, and then there’s the tiny gauge supplied with the kit.

I’m not sure whether this last photo is any better than the others - I use an iPad as a camera, I’m afraid, and my wife is at work - but hopefully the radius is just visible.

35375C55-9E38-4D13-84AB-08975B03B3DF.jpeg



Many thanks for your forbearance.

Jonte
 

AdeMoore

Western Thunderer
Looks ok to me Jonte, the iPad and macro photography is pretty hard I gave up some years ago and resorted to my current iPhone 6 better camera even then it’s about 5 attempts, the yellow square finds the subject and it’s still out of focus.
I resort to pulling away and moving in until it sees what I’m seeing!
All because I’m to lazy to get the camera out take photos remove SD card insert in laptop download and then compose a post.
On photostream it’s there shared across devices no faff apart from getting an image in the first place!
Keep up the daily postings finding your trials interesting and I’m learning to.
Cheers
Ade
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Looks ok to me Jonte, the iPad and macro photography is pretty hard I gave up some years ago and resorted to my current iPhone 6 better camera even then it’s about 5 attempts, the yellow square finds the subject and it’s still out of focus.
I resort to pulling away and moving in until it sees what I’m seeing!
All because I’m to lazy to get the camera out take photos remove SD card insert in laptop download and then compose a post.
On photostream it’s there shared across devices no faff apart from getting an image in the first place!
Keep up the daily postings finding your trials interesting and I’m learning to.
Cheers
Ade

My experience entirely, Ade. Well put :thumbs:

My daughter left me her ‘electronic’ camera several years ago which I used to good effect, but coming to think of it now, via the lap top using a lead etc.....Haven’t bothered with it since my wife bought the iPad for me. In fact, I’m not even sure where it is.

My phone is an iPhone, but it’s a couple of years old now so won’t be a ‘6’. I use it for all the other ‘shots’ I take so perhaps I should give it a go for modelling purposes.

Many thanks for your moral support too, Ade.

Best wishes

Jonte
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
I'd say that's a success. I have a few GWR tenders that require this treatment and others that have been done - haven't had a consistent flare. Great solution, which I will un-a-shamedly copy!

Mike

Hi Mike; most kind of you to say so.

Copy away, but I cannot accept any responsibility for any heartache, loss of hair or sanity ;)

Thanks for dropping in.

Jonte
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
After feeling a little under the weather yesterday, fellow Westerners, I thought I’d try an hour or so’s work this afternoon.

Buoyed by the positive response to my most recent attempt at flare making, I bit the bullet and decided to do a proper dry run with the riveted tender sides/end that won’t be used - it would also provide an opportunity to practise cutting out a vital part of the kit from the fret and remove the tabs etc before doing it for real next time. Add to that breaking in my new Proxxon flame thrower, and it was all a little exciting.

Before removing from fret, the rear of the part was scribed on the reverse side at the point where the flare was to begin (I think this is what @adrian was referring to when he mentioned forming from the inside):

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Note too the Fiskars scissors which worked extremely well at cutting the metal tabs as I was advised they would, without any distortion of the thin brass.

Into the vice to remove the tabs:

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Thankfully no drama but I was mindful of how delicate the parts were. I actually placed the part lower in the vice after this to ensure utmost support while filing. Incidentally, Iain’s book refers to cusp and its removal, however, the parts in this kit don’t seem to have it, certainly not this part anyway.

The result:

B11DB33A-145E-4B22-9CAB-F7F19EA20CCD.jpeg

Ready to be singed by my new toy:

4E570B4C-FC3B-4166-A80A-D6B0F1C49942.jpeg

Perhaps you can just make out the pinpoint blue flame. This was aimed at the edge to be formed only, but of course, the heat spreads across the rest of the part, and while I did see a ‘lavender’ colour at one stage, the process is too quick, and trying to ensure that the heat was equal along the full length, meant that I probably dawdled a little longer than I should, making the part a little too malleable. Next time, a quick dash with the heat and off, I think.

The annealed part in the jig against its scribed line as previously discussed. A couple of small pieces of sellotape holding the part at each end eased the ‘setting up’ in the jig:

6BAC5BA4-6B46-4E7A-9D15-BD7CB565CA41.jpeg
B15FE390-6C78-49D8-992B-558C5DF716A3.jpeg

After forming with digits and thumb, it was out into the garden to throw some light on the subject:

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The clamp as usual taking up the ‘slack’ in the middle of the jig.

The results (taken with my camera phone in the hope that they’re better quality than the iPad ones - don’t hold your breath):

D918A260-6389-4092-B4DB-DE35D31E328B.jpeg B12FE4EA-CEA0-4BE9-8A2F-6E83EF9953E4.jpeg

I’m pleased that they’re even again along the length and not a bad representation of a flare.

I’m still not hundred per cent sure - no criticism, of course, of my good friends who were kind enough to show support.

However, while the ‘bend’ of the flare pretty much matches the gauge provided, the top edge - to me - still looks nearer to the ninety rather than sixty degree flare-off as advised by @SimonT. As mentioned last time, I’m almost certain as I can be that it’s down to the etched bead at the top edge, and which I reckon I’ve managed to capture in the photo third from end if you look along the tube former.

Now, I can live with this, however, when I do it for real next time, I’m going to take another leaf out of @adrian ’s book and tap home the rope edge with a ‘pin’ hammer to see if it makes a difference. That said, I might be making a bigger headache for myself if the part ‘folds’ at the joint of the bead - and the bead stays where it is (if you follow my gist) :(

On second thought, I’ll leave well alone, and fly with this.

Hopefully, the next instalment will see me bending the corners where the sides meet the end. Might even build a jig ;)

Thanks for looking.

Jonte
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
In danger of over-egging the pudding now, but perhaps these are clearer?

From the front:

C7482469-1478-4B3D-8B9B-37DED6BFA6C2.jpeg 6BA4E253-0D75-4E33-A490-BEC472BBF19D.jpeg

From the rear:

7CE9C5E5-124E-41BB-97E3-DA21CD5A670E.jpeg FE391F38-AD57-402B-B082-167C012E0A89.jpeg

D87E3D9A-2A32-4AF8-82C3-0BBAAE1DCBC4.jpeg

Further edit: comparison with gauge (needed assistance here).

One end:

E587412E-1229-49FC-A721-05DD14FCAD9F.jpeg

The middle:

F3DF64A1-74E6-44B9-B187-28E738B6AFF3.jpeg

As I didn’t take them they should be clearer.

Looks like the flare is a good fit apart from the top edge. However, the top edge on the gauge looks ‘flatter’ than the sixty degrees of Simon’s official drawing.

Hey ho.

Jonte
 
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jonte

Western Thunderer
Me again, fellow Westerners. Well, I’ve not quite given up. Yet.


While I was still relatively in the swing of things after yesterday’s cutting and forming, rather than make a start on another bending saga as suggested in my previous, I decided to cut out and form the REAL tender sides/end from the kit.


On this occasion however, apart from one or two, most of the tabs were too ‘tight’ to the etch to use the scissors due to this being a busier etch containing more parts, so I dug out a fairly blunt scalpel from the box and successfully removed the part with this, cutting on the end of the tab nearest the fret to keep the forces away from the part to be removed, utilising an ordinary modellers mat to cut it on. Incidentally, I thought I would be dicing with death here, suspecting the surface might be a tad too flexible to adequately support the piece while cutting, but thankfully this was not the case. I mention all this for the benefit (?) of any newbies that might be reading this and thinking of taking the plunge; I realise I’m teaching my grannies here.

Ironically, it was too hard in places such that one or two dried up lumps of adhesive or whatever marked the surface of the brass with a couple of dimples. This really is flimsy stuff.

Note to me for future reference: next time, buy a new mat and keep solely for the purpose of kit-building!

578E051B-35DD-4926-90C2-A74D0CD6878D.jpeg


Removed and tidied up as per yesterday’s post. Note the second scribed line near the base. Guess which divvy got the etch the wrong way up when marking! Hopefully nobody will notice the feint line showing on the outside...

39EBCFEE-BFD1-4882-88DB-08E4ADF31510.jpeg


Now here’s a novelty, and please spare my blushes after I tell you what I was up to. After annealing the metal yesterday on my test piece, you may or may not recall I employed my new flame thrower for the task, not only to play about with it, but also to try and be a little more accurate with the heat (the flame on the range tended to be indiscrete with previous test pieces, rendering the whole surface of each, well, a little too flimsy). Despite this however, the rest of the part was also undesirably bendy, so I though I’d rig up a heat sink - remember those jaw extensions?


Well, they were useless for this job too. They sucked up all the heat which I came to realise when I tried to bend the part in the jig. Rock-solid. Rather then persist and lose the ‘true-ness’ of the edge, I dismantled the jig and reheated it with the Proxxon, simply holding it with an old pair of pliers as I’d done countless times before on the stove. Only this time, when an area of the part went purple-ish, I moved on to an adjacent section and repeated until the whole edge was thus treated, the idea being to minimalise the conduction of heat across the whole of the surface of the brass piece. Not sure if this is good practice or not though, but the annealing has done its job this time.


The part was returned to the jig and formed as previously with fingers and thumbs. And then steel rule. And more steel rule. Now I know I’ve been harping on about this flare, and feel as though I’ve been a little ungrateful to all my benevolent friends on here who’ve tried to help and reassure me, but that last bit of flare was still galling me.


As this was the last throw of the dice - like life, there is only one go at this - I threw caution to the wind and grabbed @adrian ‘s pin hammer, and like the first Bronze-age man, I sat tapping and deflecting and tapping a bit more, not really having a clue what I was doing, until I made that darned little beaded bit at the top submit into cooperating. At least I think I did. Perhaps I’m just trying a little too hard to convince myself, but according to Martin’s gauges the top has gone a little flatter and finally seems to fit a little better at the top.


Even so and if that is indeed the case, like all things in life, there’s a pay-off: the harsher treatment of the ‘worked’ top may have lost the smoothness of its predecessors and taken up the patina of that Ford Cortina Father Ted had borrowed for the raffle, after he tried to knock at a dent, but I suppose it affords it a more artisan appearance, and ultimately, workman-like is always what I hanker after.

1BB405F1-6E71-42DF-A9E6-91DF6461043A.jpeg

Yeah okay, if you say so, Jonte.


Anyway. Just before I go, I couldn’t help noticing two sets of three indentations on the inside of the tender rear. Checking the instructions, as I feared, they were rivets that needed embossing from behind; something to do with the rear steps. I’d been dreading this, but I couldn’t recall there being anything about embossing the tender sides/end, so thought I was safe for now. Adam recently responded to a query I asked about firming these things in the absence of an appropriate tool, and it transpired that a blunt pair of compasses was the order of the day, which I have; but couldn’t bothered going inside to get them, so lazily reached into my tool box resting by my feet and selected a sharpish screw. This, I reckoned, would be easier to handle with its flat head and short body - shorter than a pair of compasses any road - especially seeing as this was my first attempt.

Not a bad attempt on the practice etch, so I turned to the actual part. Ouch!

5FC7D1BB-E66B-4D1C-92AB-BDD7A4F405AA.jpeg
D06933D6-6D15-4A7C-8250-952AA798A7E5.jpeg

The step to the left of the picture shows a hole just beneath the set of rivets. Turns out that the piece of wood I’d been using as a work surface was battle scarred with drill holes and chips out of it, causing the screw to slip out of the embossed dimple on’t back.

Note to self: new work surface for each new kit-build.

I’ve tidied up the surface for now while on the flat with a couple of files. If it requires further work, I’ll try and address it with some solder ‘filler’ from the rear when I eventually get the iron out.

Not easy this is it?

The sun’s beginning to break, so perhaps I can work outside without my coat on like this morning.

The vagaries of the weather, hey, fellow Westerners?

Right, now to try and work out a jig for creating the two bends between the rear and the sides.

jonte

Edit: second to last photo out of sequence; apologies.
 
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jonte

Western Thunderer
The end of a hard day’s graft, fellow Westerners, and I’m pleased to report that I have completed the first part (of many) of the build:

3F774F80-5218-4850-AB2A-9F3C75AD0B0D.jpeg 61C394A7-BC36-4326-8BB7-D38290067B8B.jpeg , 86A12E12-4FC5-4DF9-B764-2DCB406D5DD5.jpeg
6CB45555-EAEB-44D9-9169-802B4D906464.jpeg 5F81D3B5-8F56-4074-840A-BCD2E2505A37.jpeg

Granted, it’s a bit (?) skew-whiff and more than a little battered and bruised, and I seriously doubt there's a straight line on it, but that doesn’t concern me unduly as my priorities have been achieved: a) a GWR flare that I can live with that’s in the right place and level (thank you jig); b) rounded corners again in the right places and as straight n true as I’m ever likely to get ‘em; c) it’s just a fascia that will be soldered to the main well for rigidity, so I can forgive it its ‘couldn’t stop a pig in a jigger’ look.

I think I’m right in saying that the wobbly look is probably due to my over-working of the metal in order to beat the beaded end of the flare into submission, and over-heating of the metal in general due to my contrary approach with this being the real deal; by contrast, the test-build piece looks a lot neater:

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But it’s not all it seems. Still, I’m grateful that I had it in the kit to use a test piece which has saved much heartache, despite using offcuts on which to practise before I even touched it.

So, a resume of work carried out since my last update (forming the bends between the sides and end) for those wishing to have a bas for the first time.

I built a jig of sorts, although nothing along the lines of my last for the flare. Quite simply, I drew a longitudinal line on a piece of melamine (fairly straight edges to work from, solid and I just happened to have an off-cut or two handy. The surface also readily accepts sticky tape which is also easy to remove) against which I placed one edge of the steel rule. This was fixed down with double sided sticky tape as this would act as a stop for the former (a 12” length of 2.5mm steel rod that fortuitously arrived in the lunchtime post - incidentally, the kit designer advocates using a 2.3mm drill, but I couldn't find one and the 2mm but in my possession looked a little under nourished). The former was seated against the edge of the rule, the furthest end away from where the piece will sit was secured to the melamine with more tape to help stop it lifting.

The piece was brought to the rule and placed against the flat end such that it was perpendicular to the edge of the rule and thus the former. The piece was threaded under the free-end of the rod (where it extends beyond the rule), and slid along until the rod was central between the cut out between one side and end. I guesstimated that this would ensure that the holes for the vertical handrail would be on the bend like the prototype. I guessed wrong. The end was secured using more tape, finger pressure applied to the rod and the side raised until vertical using a steel rule. As I wrote, for some reason the holes were not on the bend and only the side where it had been raised against the rod was rounded:

FF688E75-7000-4F44-A749-3E2C22589417.jpeg

No probs, as this was just the test-piece. So, I laid it on the bench and ran a steel rule over the back end of it a couple of times to straighten it out, and tried again. I made a further guess, but this time, the holes were in the right place, both sides being radiused:

8D17986A-6CCD-4384-8D73-19FFC156E832.jpeg

Problem here was that the crease from the previous attempt remained, nevertheless, I was pleased that I’d sussed out the right place to place the former. Which I’ll now try to explain.

But before repeating for the second side, I made the decision to anneal the metal at that point first as it had fought me tooth and nail on the first and second attempts on the first side. It also ensured a neater radius. I should have done so before, but the thought of all this softened metal on the final product concerned me. Still, it helps with the fabrication.

So, the strategy is thus: thread piece under rod former as before and place the rod on the ‘end’ of the tender adjacent to the side at which the bend is being formed. Then slide the piece until the outside of the rod former (the edge nearest the side being raised) cuts the handrail holes in two i.e. runs longitudinally between the centre of the holes, then raise the side with the rule as before. Hopefully this photo shows it better than I can explain it:

721187BB-2F50-44E4-A17C-E20C8DB8CAE8.jpeg

So there we go.

Not top drawer but then Rome wasn’t built in a day.

Back to the instructions to work out the next step.

Cheers for now.

Jonte
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Try cutting the tabs with a Stanley knife on an offcut of Contiboard or something similar. Ideally, IMHE, you need something quite hard underneath to avoid distorting the metal. Actually, for the last year or so I've used a Xuron Photo Etch Cutter. Unless you are doing a fair bit of model building they look a bit expensive and they are not universally popular but I've found them to be really good.

Brian
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
Try cutting the tabs with a Stanley knife on an offcut of Contiboard or something similar. Ideally, IMHE, you need something quite hard underneath to avoid distorting the metal. Actually, for the last year or so I've used a Xuron Photo Etch Cutter. Unless you are doing a fair bit of model building they look a bit expensive and they are not universally popular but I've found them to be really good.

Brian

Hi Brian, and point taken.

Thank you.

Luckily, I’ve a couple of pairs of cutters, but I’d forgotten about them :rolleyes:

They’re in the bottom of one of those boxes you can see in the photos.

Many thanks for reminding me.

Jonte
 

jonte

Western Thunderer
A mixed bag today in terms of progress, fellow Westerners, although I did get to use the ‘Iron’ and wield the ‘Bars’ in anger. I’m also hoping that a more knowledgable Westerner than I can answer a burning question to move on to the next stage, but more of that later.

Just before I begin, and really there’s not a lot to report, it’s something I forgot to mention from yesterday’s update which concerns the flare forming (not that again), particularly the rear flare as can be seen in this photo:

C6FD9AD0-251D-4CB0-801F-41D4C8A662D5.jpeg

As can be seen, the flare isn’t as fluent along its top edge as it should be. I recall it also being difficult to form on the jig. I suspect that insufficient heat was the problem as this was the point where I held the part in a pair of old pliers while I annealed the metal. In effect, like those darned aluminium jaw extensions before it, the pliers acted as heat sink conducting the heat away from the edge. What I should have done was move the pliers to an area which had already been annealed as you may recall I annealed the lengthy part in sections. I shall remember for next time. :(

So, on to today.

Spent most of it reading and re-reading the instructions so as not to make a boob. it was clear that three parts in particular were required for what I deemed the day’s build: the footplate, tank former and tank-top overlay. In the event, I didn’t get anywhere near reaching the overlay, and spent a good couple of hours cutting out, tidying up and familiarising myself with the form of each part before carefully labelling and collating the minutest parts that had to be removed from around and within the parts mentioned. I was meticulous in this respect as I ALWAYS darned well mislay something. My wife’s right of course, but don’t tell her I said so ;) :

45FBE93A-1B95-49F5-8AB4-02C055A2CFDB.jpeg 8EEC8E7D-BF01-4EF2-9469-B36F9E9283C8.jpeg

The 3 parts removed and tidied up:

C96756E8-FB9A-41AB-932A-9A0EEA7BFA98.jpeg

Both overlay and footplate (middle and left of picture) were bent to kingdom come, and the instructions specifically stated ‘ensure footplate is flat’, so into the garage I went to select a dumbbell, the idea being to flatten the footplate by rolling the dumbbell over it against my thigh. I’ve no idea where they went - I suspect my son who moved out twelve months ago might know ;) - so I was left to balance one end of the shortest barbell - a ‘Z’ bell as it turned out - I could muster without crushing the flimsy item below - nor the footplate. Supporting most of the weight myself lest it crush this delicate oblong of thin brass, it was soon completed after a couple of go’s on each side. It was then subjected to further ‘flattening’ between kitchen worktop and wooden workpiece:

287C25B7-E417-4CC4-B909-D07E3E6043F1.jpeg

It was later flattened again beneath the heavy set of Metalsmith bending bars just for good measure. Although it would have almost certainly been easier to accomplish by annealing, I didn’t want to compromise the integrity of the model by softening this vital part too. As you can see, also decided to ‘flatten’ the overlay too.

Next, it was time to utilise the bending bars: some steps at the for’ard end needed turning up and some tabs inside the part that would support the coal thingy; eventually (haven’t read as far as that but yet). Here’s the bars in use:

EF8959CA-864B-49AB-8049-2D0439F3DFBB.jpeg CBCA2AF0-BB88-4847-B6B9-84D5BCB6E281.jpeg AA1880E8-E4D4-4004-A171-91EDDBD7987E.jpeg

They’re worth their weight in gold IMHO as despite the brass being quite thin and flimsy, the fabricated parts took some grunt with a steel rule and a small file where the rule proved to large to use, and it’s odds on that plums here would have bent the whole thing to you know what and cut himself to smithereens in the process :(

Next up involved fitting a couple of 10 BA nuts to a couple of prepared holes fore and aft on the footplate. By golly gosh they’re small. Here, I employed a handy tip I picked up from one of Tony Wright’s videos which involves capturing the nut on a cocktail stick, which holds it centrally in the hole while the solder is applied. I also followed his advice by ordering a 10 BA tap to unblock the solder from the thread which worked a treat. In this shot, I think you can see the tap in the handle I bought separately to hold the tap (it also came with 5 collars of various sizes, all courtesy of Squires - smashing service):

4D7BCCAD-B49B-4788-A2F5-11EFA7F8247C.jpeg DC5B0052-17DD-4718-B034-F05259D2093A.jpeg

A trial with the bolt ensured all worked well.

I just hope and pray I’ve fitted them the right way up :eek:

And that was it for today, as unfortunately, I’m a bit at a loss to understand the next part which involves the tank former which is the first of the three parts shown in the earlier photo.

Now, I THINK I’m right in saying that the sides are folded upwards (towards the camera) in this next shot as the fold lines are uppermost:

5C68E64F-7EDE-4BF6-B2B4-DF34A4C63603.jpeg

But what perplexes is me is when it states: ‘Solder the front of the tanks around the outside of the former top’ (This appears on the 3rd page below: Section 3: Constructing the body about half way down - here’s a link to the instructions if anybody is able to advise, please?

Edit: Page greyed out while trying to attach link http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/Downloads/GWR 3500 tender instructions.pdf

Thanks for reading.

Jonte
 
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