An Unusual Collection

[oldravendale]

Here's the next half dozen.

Battersea Exhibition. 8 October 1960. Motor Bogies. First one has GEC Motors. I believe it was Yorkshire Dave who suggested that these photos could be at the Battersea exhibition in 1960. (If I'm incorrect, Dave, please let me know, and apologies) Out of interest I tried to find details of this exhibition on line but the only one I could find is dated 28th - 30th June 1957 and bearing in mind that most of the exhibits in these photos were not built then the 1957 date is too early. (There's an interesting short video of the 1957 exhibition on

) I simply can't find info on an exhibition with these vehicles present.



Battersea Exhibition. 8 October 1960. SC61838 - E3041.



DMU. Windsor & Eton Central? Date Unknown. c1960. Yorkshire Dave suggested: Possibly Windsor & Eton GW. It's a Western Region unit and you can see the S and & on the nameboard through the DMU windows. The lettering spacing looks to fit WINDSOR & ETON CENTRAL. The SR station was WINDSOR & ETON RIVERSIDE.



Electric Test Train at Chorleywood Station 12.40 to Rickmansworth. 21 August 1960.



Electric Test train to Rickmansworth. 20 August 1960. Electric Test train to Rickmansworth at Cattle Bridge (probably Chorleywood). 4.17. 3-car T Stock. 2753 - 9730 - 2747. 20 August 1960.



Great Missenden Station. c1961. Looks like a horsebox behind the station but I've no idea of its origin.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

I actually owe Dave an apology. The date and location for the Battersea exhibition are from the back of the prints. Now that doesn't mean to say that they are correct but this is clearly an exhibition so a record must exist somewhere. Does anyone have any ideas?

Brian

 

[JimG]

Battersea Exhibition. 8 October 1960. SC61838 - E3041.

View attachment 109638

That unit, along with the other 303 units, would go into service a month later only for all of them to be withdrawn in mid-December after five serious faults with the transformers.

Failures of Multiple-unit Electric Trains on British Railways: Final Report :: The Railways Archive

I had started working in London in October of that year so I missed all the fun of re-establishing a steam hauled service to take over. The V1/V3 tanks which had run the North Cyudeside service before electrification had all been dispersed to other areas and I think that the 51ft Gresley suburban stock had been moved up to Faslane for scrapping. My friend reported some quite exotic and high powered lcoomotives on occasion and all the drivers seemed to be attempting to emulate the times of the new electric service. By the time I got back to Glasgow the following year, the 303s were back in service and working very well.


Jim.

 

[76043]

The interesting thing about the Battersea exhibition is that BR could be bothered to up temporary overhead catenary.

Tony

 

[oldravendale]

But, Tony, (and doubtless there are people on here who'll put me right) I believe that a lot of the SR yards had overhead supplies rather than third rail. I believe that this was associated with the first three electric locos and was then appropriate for the later locos as they were introduced. I'll bet that the 25Kv vehicles would not have operated in that yard.

Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Rather than an exhibition it would have likely to have been the British Railways Electrification Conference London 1960: Railway Electrification at Industrial Frequency.

It was held in early October 1960 in London which corroborates the dates and contents of the photos.

The proceedings are documented here: British Railways Electrification Conference London 1960: Railway Electrification at Industrial Frequency - Proceedings :: The Railways Archive

 

[76043]

Hi Brian,
Yes, the SR yard overhead was a bit tram like if I recall from the pics I've seen, this overhead in the yard at Battersea is clearly the 25kv type, so would seem to be a part of the conference Dave has mentioned.

Love the Pathe film, I imagine the buffet car if it survived would have been refurbished, but it looks fun with its 50s decor. Then there's the Powder room!
Tony

 

[oldravendale]

Dave - once again you're right on the money! It's about the only possible reason for these vehicles to all be in the same place at the same time and the date is absolutely right. It adds further credence to our earlier thoughts that Mr Herbert was an electrical engineer of some kind, although whether he attended the conference as a delegate is up for question.

Tony - that's a good point. I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable about overhead wiring to know whether that's 25Kv or not but it looks a bit spindly compared with the catenary on the West Coast line with which I'm reasonably familiar.

That's an interesting report, Jim, on the 303 units. Just by pure coincidence the photos I'm currently scanning and post processing for Tim Mills include some on the Glasgow suburban for which I don't have, yet, any firm dates but seem to fit in this window. Most of his black and white stuff is between 1958 and 1962 but, regrettably, his records are, ahem, a bit sketchy. Here are three in their raw state. Two of them are identified as being at Shettleston. The mix of motive power (there are some others with Standard Class 4 2-6-0s on the front) suggests that these may be a good fit.

This is 76103.



Then 67629.



and finally 43140



Copyright of all the above are Tim Mills.

This one is described rather charmingly as: "On Our Garden Fence. Put up on August 13 1960. " Rear of print states "132, Whitelands Avenue" - suspect Chorleywood as Google-maps shows that Whitelands Avenue backs on to the Met Line at Chorleywood - 14 August 1960. Another LT plate for your collection, Dave.



This one carries the description "LHCETS Tour. L to R. Met Line Metadyne Type. Special 4 Car F Class Stock. Piccadilly Line Pre 1938 Tube Stock (BTH). Uxbridge 18 September 1960." What was LHCETS?


This one is: "Motors. Stonebridge Park. Top Left Met Vick No 20 Mid Top GEC 32 No 89. Top Right GEC 32 No 112. Bot left GEC 27 No 52. Bot centre GEC 32 No 106. Bot Rt GEC 32 No 82. 12 October 1960." Couldn't be much more detailed than that, could it? And it confirms location as Stonebridge Park which is likely to apply to the other photos too. I wonder why Mr Herbert stopped recording this level of detail in his later photos?


.... like this one which is titled simply "Motors. Stonebridge Park. 12 October 1960." At least we have a date on this.


....and then the info deteriorates to this fanciful original description of mine - "No info. Possibly Mitre Bridge." However now I reckon we can be safe in assuming this to be Stonebridge Park and the date around 1960.


And finally, also described by me as "No info. Possibly Mitre Bridge" which is actually another at Stonebridge Park and again around 1960.



Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I wonder why Mr Herbert stopped recording this level of detail in his later photos?

The detailed photos may have been used for instruction and/or training purposes or Mr Herbert later just knew what he was looking at.

Mitre bridge is a railway junction on the West London line close to Old Oak Common - and this depot wouldn't service electrics - it was just too modern for them .

 

[JimG]

That's an interesting report, Jim, on the 303 units. Just by pure coincidence the photos I'm currently scanning and post processing for Tim Mills include some on the Glasgow suburban for which I don't have, yet, any firm dates but seem to fit in this window. Most of his black and white stuff is between 1958 and 1962 but, regrettably, his records are, ahem, a bit sketchy. Here are three in their raw state. Two of them are identified as being at Shettleston. The mix of motive power (there are some others with Standard Class 4 2-6-0s on the front) suggests that these may be a good fit.

This is 76103.

View attachment 109665

Then 67629.

View attachment 109666

and finally 43140

View attachment 109667

Copyright of all the above are Tim Mills.

Brian,

I reckon the first picture is taken at Shettleston. Here's an image from Streetview showing the present day station with the red sandstone tenements beyond the platforms.



I can't place the other two pictures in Shettleston station. If they were taken from the other platform pointing in the other direction then the road overbridge featured in the foreground of the Google picture would be apparent.

I'm a north-western Glaswegian so the distant pastures of the east end and Shettleston are a foreign land to me. Maybe someone else with more knowledge could identify the other station.

Jim.

 

[mickoo]

I think all three are taken at Shettleston, the chimneys in the background match up, though the one on the left is partially obscured by the station building end glazing. The lower two pictures are taken from the platform closer to Glasgow, than the first taken from the road bridge. The road bridge one shows a glazed end to the station awning, the last photo shows a shadow that also shows a glazed awning behind the photographer.

The last photo also shows a foot crossing which can also just be seen in the first photo and is partially obscured by the lamp standard, it's position and shadow from the station building match in both photos.

Addendum, did a brief google and turned up this

RAILSCOT | Shettleston | G H Robin collection by courtesy of the Mitchell Library, Glasgow

case closed m'lord

Another nice shot looking the other way

Shettleston. 67669 & westbound train. 13.4.61

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for your thoughts on that last lot, Dave. You may be right about the reasons for the details in some of the shots. As for Mitre Bridge, well, I've no excuse.... we use that line a lot to get from Tring to Streatham where I have a very old (40 years + and 94 years old) friend. Whilst I'll still drive in town I'd nowadays rather not, and going by train means I can imbibe and Arthur and I have always imbibed.

Jim - thanks for your thoughts there, but I reckon you've been aced by Mickoo. Thanks Mick. I'm pretty sure the date of those photos is about right for the period the 303 units were not running. That 13th April 61 photo which Mick gave a link to makes reference to the replacement of the electric units by steam and it seems to fit, especially the non V1/V3 motive power.

Hopefully more from the collection (and we're really getting to the end of it now) tomorrow.

Brian

 

[cbrailways]

The Windsor photograph is definitely Windsor and Eton Central. The signal in the background is a WR tubular post lower quadrant type.

 

[JimG]

Addendum, did a brief google and turned up this

RAILSCOT | Shettleston | G H Robin collection by courtesy of the Mitchell Library, Glasgow

case closed m'lord

Nice one.

I had assumed the original station buildings were further east and not so close to the tenements. I should have dug out an older map from the NLS to see where they were.

Jim.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for the confirmation, Chris, and a very graceful side step there, Jim.

Moving on.....

This one carries the title "Pullman Observation Car on the Pennine Pullman. West Hampstead. 12 May 1956" It's clearly the pair to go with Silver Link on Post 371. I just love the washing on the line!



This one is " Signal J.S.D.7 (read from signal) at back of 132 Whitelands Avenue, Chorleywood prior to electrifying in 1959."


Although technically thee are, let's say, technically inferior, Mr Herbert was clearly trying to catch typical movements before they all changed. This is "Steam to Baker Street. 4.00 at Cattle Bridge (probably Chorleywood). Fairburn 2-6-4T Loco. 20 August 1960."



"Stoke Mandeville Station. c1961."


And the final pair have the same description - "Stonebridge Park. 12 October 19 1960"



Brian

 

[Engineer]

Quick looking up at work: The signal in the vicinity of Chorleywood is now A970, an automatic signal, but in physical appearance still probably much the same - I've not had chance to double check with other sources as yet. At the time of being photographed, the signal number would have been JS17, so close to what the image detail appears to say.

 

[oldravendale]

Great stuff again, Engineer. I took the opportunity to really push the contrast and increase the density to see what I could get out of it. Here's the detail section from the photo and to my eye that indeed looks like JS17 so I suspect Mr Herbert must have simply misread it.



Brian

 

[oldravendale]

Here's the next half dozen. All are titled "Stonebridge Park 12 October 1960." A couple of the photos suggest that this was as the Class 501 units were introduced. One can even be identified as M70135. My lack of knowledge doesn't allow me to add any additional info. However, judging by the wiring which appears to be going on in one of the photos suggests that these were being commissioned at the time the photographs were being taken.



Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

LHCETS Tour

London & Home Counties Electric Traction Society.

The tour in question was a circular starting and finishing at Wembley Park with F stock.

Ties is with posts 366 F stock at Watford and again in post 379 Baker Street.

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks Dave. I didn't know that! And it's added some more possibilities for a bit of sleuthing.

Looking on Six Bells Junction there was a L & HCTS tour by EMU on on 20 November 1960, but no details known, and another described as a Circular Tour on 18th September 1960, but no details there either. The latter seems most likely, although both could, of course, be on BR rather than LT. In fact I'm now wondering whether the AM2 in posts 8, 22, possibly 27 and 29 could be a L & HCETS tour as well, in which case this would be a good candidate for 20th November. In fact there are no L & HCTS tours shown for either the previous year or the one after, so I'll put my money on those two.

Brian