Another JLTRT Gresley... another D114

[Dog Star]

As it seems that there is no bar to GWR enthusiasts wandering around on the dark side I thought that this would be the place to open a discussion on the details which are not provided in the familiar white box.

Rob Pulham and I have been discussing the finer (or poorer) points of this model and Rob has decided to let me find and sort the niggles.  So, as there are at least two of us out here who might like to know, here are some little problems which are in need of nice and easy answers.  The kit offers brake cylinders and brake cross-shafts; there are no brake pull-rods (which are common to most of the standard Gresley 61'6" carriages), there are no hand-brake pull-rod / equalising levers / slotted links (specific to the brake coaches).  Prototype pull-rod diameter is 1 1/8" (29mm for those with a modern education) and I reckon that equates to some of Eileen's finest 0.7mm round rod (brass or nickel....  is there a preference?)

[1] Simplest task is the pull-rod from the forked lever on the cross-shaft to the bogie, the prototype has a plain eye / hole in the end of the pull rod.  Now I could squish the end of a piece of 0.7mm rod, drill for a 0.5mm pin and bingo, done.  However the prototype does not have a squished end, rather the rod ends in a circular boss with two flat faces (probably 1 1/8" apart and parallel to the axis of the rod).  How would you produce the boss on the end of the rod?

[2] A coach fitted with a hand-brake and an automatic brake requires some form of slip linkage between the hand-brake and the vac-cyl. so that either can apply the brake without hinderance from the other.  Generally that slip link is  slotted and at the point where the hand-brake rod meets the pull-rod to the bogie(s).    In the case of the Gresley design, the slotted link replaces the plain eye of the brake pull-rod in [1] and the slotted portion of the link fits inside of the forked lever on the cross-shaft.  On the assumption that the forked levers are a constant, then the width of the slotted link is about 1 1/8" with a similar depth.  How would you form a slotted link, of 0.7mm square cross-section, on the end of a 0.7mm diameter rod?

For those with a real sense of humour, the background to this topic can be found here:-
http://www.lner.info/forums/carriage-br ... t4438.html

thank you, Graham Beare

BTW - is this bit of the forum called the dark side because no one feeds the meter? :

 

[Rob Pulham]

Hi Graham,

Having a quick look at Eileen's they do stock 0.8mm square Nickel rod in 12" lengths at 80p a length which is a step in the right direction. They also do 0.7mm round in both brass and Nickel (apologies if you have already looked). As you pose, the question is how to join them together to get the end result?

 

[Dog Star]

Having a quick look at Eileen's they do stock 0.8mm square Nickel rod in 12" lengths at 80p a length which is a step in the right direction. They also do 0.7mm round in both brass and Nickel (apologies if you have already looked). As you pose, the question is how to join them together to get the end result?

Hello Rob,
  I thought that "Eileen" had brass and nickel round rod, is there a preference for this job?  Maybe nickel as less likely to fracture whilst making the thing.  Square rod/bar for the slotted link section might be a starter, how good are you at cutting a slot in material which is 0.8mm wide?  Same here!  Actually, looking at some of the photos which Jonpaul provided I revise my view of the slot section, more like 1 1/8" wide and 2" (maybe even 2 1/4") deep - thank you Jonpaul.

What I did not say in the earlier post 'cos I did not want to put anyone off, , is that beyond the slot section the pull-rod returns to a round section and then forms a clevis for a plain eye on the next section of pull-rod (rod [1] linked to rod [2] in LNER Forum thread above).

Surely someone else is as mad as us two? 8) 8)

regards, Graham

 

[Dog Star]

Surely someone else is as mad as us two? 8) 8)

Sorry, ought I to have put "sad" rather than "mad"? 

 

[Rob Pulham]

Hello Rob,
  I thought that "Eileen" had brass and nickel round rod, is there a preference for this job?  Maybe nickel as less likely to fracture whilst making the thing.  Square rod/bar for the slotted link section might be a starter, how good are you at cutting a slot in material which is 0.8mm wide?

regards, Graham

Hi Graham,

Eileen's do both nickel and brass in the round in most sizes but strangely they only do Nickel in less than 1mm square.  :scratch:

I am pretty sure I could cut a slot without too much issue (I have done something similar with a piercing saw in the past) it would be turning the 0.7mm round down and drilling the 0.8mm square accurately that I would struggle with I think (that was the only way I could think of joining the two that would give some mechanical strength).

In terms of Sad or Mad where would be the fun in building it straight from the box knowing that it was NLRT

 

[Rob Pulham]

Following my ongoing dialogue with Graham, I have finally made a start on the Gresley's - only cutting the castings from the sprues so don't get too excited yet ;D.
What I have done, at Graham's suggestion, is made a cradle for holding the partially complete coach - the door hinges are quite vulnerable being resin.

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[Dog Star]

What happened to your JLTRT Gresley topic?  Or are you going to put your very nice photos on that thread as well?  (worth it as your approach to the removable / adjustable side is a better solution then my original design).

regards, Graham

 

[Rob Pulham]

What happened to your JLTRT Gresley topic?  Or are you going to put your very nice photos on that thread as well?  (worth it as your approach to the removable / adjustable side is a better solution then my original design).

regards, Graham

OOPS!! ,  I had forgotten I had started one :-[

 

[Dog Star]

OOPS!! ,  I had forgotten I had started one :-[

Robin, with such an admission may I suggest a QA review of your tag-line?   

or maybe change to Earl Grey? 

regards, Graham

 

[Rob Pulham]

Fair comment Graham, a review is in progress.

 

[Dog Star]

What I have done, at Graham's suggestion, is made a cradle for holding the partially complete coach - the door hinges are quite vulnerable being resin.

To clarify Rob's comment....  the JLTRT Gresley coach sides are made in a polyurethane resin.  The sides include good representations of the door hinges, except that one of the guard's doors is "hung" wrongly on the D114 and D175.  The door hinges are vunerable to breakage and whilst working on one side of a coach I lost a couple from the side which was resting on the bench  .  So I made a cradle with 6mm closed cell foam lining on the long sides and on the bottom - now the coach sides / bottom / roof are protected whilst working on the body  .

Rob improved upon my design by introducing slots in the ends and studs with wing nuts thereby enabling the spacing between the sides of the cradle to be adjusted to suit the model.

regards, Graham

 

[28ten]

A cradle is a good idea, the hinges are also vulnerable on the toplights and Mk1's - yes I did break several 

 

[iploffy]

thats a cracking idea

Ian

 

[Dog Star]

A long time since we posted to this thread...  so busy modelling neither Robin nor I have had time to add anything.

A few days before Telford a small package was delivered to our abode, courtesy of Jonathan (S7JB), with a request to build up an etch and attach some whitemetal castings - thereby creating a "sprung" JLTRT Gresley bogie.  Some alterations to the JLTRT parts are required before attachment to the JB-etch, for example:-

* removal of spring buckle from inner face of solebar;
* rebates to end of longitudinal girders to fit into slots in etch headstock;
* narrowing of central transoms and main bolster to fit between the sides of the etch unit;
* enlarge bearing hole in JLTRT axlebox and form a slot in the box.

with the result as shown in the photos below.  The "completed" bogie is not quite yet for there are some JLTRT which remain to be added, eg. swing links and springs, and some other parts to be considered, eg. brake blocks / hangers / yokes.

I think that the design of the etch is sound and the result is a bogie with parallel axles and active springing to all wheels.


Whilst Jonathan and I are S7 modellers there is no reason why this etch cannot be used with finescale wheelsets.

regards, Graham

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[Scale7JB]

They look great Graham..!! 

JB.

 

[28ten]

Those look very neat  you werent tempted to use piano wire for springing?

 

[Dog Star]

They look great Graham..!! 

So you have not changed your opinion since Telford? 

Or were you referring to the sleepers / ballast / chairs?

 

[Dog Star]

...you werent tempted to use piano wire for springing?

No, we had been experimenting with coil springs between the w/m axleboxes and the w/m solebar (ie. pure JLTRT parts) and success was neither easy nor guaranteed.  Further, using only JLTRT parts did not provide for a 4-square result.  Jonathan's design delivers on both counts:- parallel axles which are at right angles to the side frame and springing which is easy to fit and predictable.  So when someone drops an early Christmas present on the doorstep - no contest.

As a bonus, the headstocks from JLTRT are too narrow and hence do not "wrap around" the solebar ends (of a 100% JLTRT bogie) as in the prototype - Jonathan has included some etched headstocks with the bogie frame and the replacement headstocks do fit around the solebar as per the prototype design.  Ok, ok - Jonathan has provided only one type of headstock...  those of you who are modelling a Gresley restaurant / kitchen / buffet with electrical cooking will have to exert some customer pressure on S7JB to include the "dropped" headstock (a necessary design change for the heavy compound bogie to allow a dynamo belt to go both sides of the headstock).

I expect that we shall be using JB's etches on all of our JLTRT bogies.  Indeed, I have asked Jonathan about producing a similar bogie design for springing of GWR 9' 0" volute bogies.

regards, Graham

 

[Rob Pulham]

Hi Graham,

Not sure how I missed this update :-[ :-[. They really do look the business.