Prototype Barry 1967 and 1968

[Ian@StEnochs]

In 1950, I saw the 'Crab' as something really-really ancient and as such was much liked. A 'Crab' would occasionally came on shed when I was at Lees 26F, but the men talked about the dodgy injectors and other things so this put me off them ~ for a short while! They must be the only class of engines that looked in their normal condition when in Barry Scrapyard.

They were never ‘Crabs’ in my area, always ‘Moguls’ and were very well liked by loco crews. Indeed they were favoured over Black 5s for coal traffic and saw use right up to the end of steam in Ayrshire.

 

[Renovater]

The demise of steam was well under way in the Midlands in 1964 when I started university at Southampton in September 1964. My first year was in Chamberlain Hall of Residence in Swaythling. To walk to the campus required going over the LSWR main line on Woodmill Lane. This overbridge had, if I remember correctly, high walls so you couldn't see the trains, but the smoke and steam was visible as the Bullied pacifics went under, still pulling the Waterloo expresses. I had really lost interest at the time, being immersed in college life and studying a whole new subject not previously taught in secondary school.

Earlier, as an argumentative teenager I had strong feelings about my stepfather's belief that steam had to go, that Dr. Beeching was right. Well, he did make a living as a time and motion man, so that was understandable. But in the end, the Bullieds meant nothing to me at all, at least until they had all gone and the the slam door electrics took over. During this period I took just one photo of a steam engine:

View attachment 154811

And it was preserved, though not a Barry locomotive! Located just inside Southampton Docks, roughly where the Ocean Terminal trains would have entered, This area has changed beyond recognition.

There was one like that back in the sixties in winchester coal yard.

 

[AJC]

There was one like that back in the sixties in winchester coal yard.

The same one, in fact (or 30102): it was sold out of service to Corralls and ended up on the Bluebell.

Adam

 

[Simon]

The Crabs feature in the collection I have, looking the worse for a few more years of sea air!

 

[LarryG]

It is sad to see the trail blazer Crabs awaiting scrapping. As a result of the pictures on here, I am going to have to splash out on a Bachmann. You can never have too many Crabs.

 

[oldravendale]

That's a nice picture of the B4 at Southampton, Paul. And thanks for the photos of the Crabs, Simon.

Moving on to some rather happier examples, although somewhat poorer pictures. The locos at Barry were stored so close to one another that it was difficult to impossible to get a decent photo of any of the locos which were not on the outside of the melee. In particular the second photo of the 4F suggests what an amazing site the yard was. However, to get this in to context Stratford, East London Shed had an allocation at one time of around 200 locos.

This is Stanier Mogul 42968. It was withdrawn from Springs Branch, Wigan, at the end of December 1966 and landed at Woodham's in June 1967. It moved to the SVR in December 1973. It entered traffic on the SVR in 1991. It was last reported as being under overhaul but this may now have been completed.



4F 0-6-0 44123 was withdrawn from Gloucester Horton Road in June 1965. It was sold to Woodham Bros the following September and was there until December 1981. It moved initially to the Mid Hants Railway. It's now on the Avon Valley Railway undergoing restoration.



This is 44422, also withdrawn from Gloucester Horton Road in June 1965 arriving at Barry the following August. It moved to Cheddleton in 1977 where it was restored to service in 1992. The most recent work on the loco has taken place at Crewe and on the West Somerset Railway although it is currently at the Churnet Valley Railway. I'm uncertain whether the next stage of overhaul has yet commenced.



Brian

 

[Focalplane]

The Stanier mogul, what was, I suppose, his precursor to the Black 5, numbered just 40 locos, only the one photographed by Brian being saved and restored. Here it is (or was) on the SVR at Arley on a train bound for Bridgenorth in 2003.



I seem to remember the moguls were often to be seen around Birmingham (Aston) and Nuneaton.

Not sure about the signal's position, though! Presumably the Stanier mogul had the token.

 

[Rob R]

The Stanier mogul, what was, I suppose, his precursor to the Black 5, numbered just 40 locos, only the one photographed by Brian being saved and restored. Here it is (or was) on the SVR at Arley on a train bound for Bridgenorth in 2003.

View attachment 154893

I seem to remember the moguls were often to be seen around Birmingham (Aston) and Nuneaton.

Not sure about the signal's position, though! Presumably the Stanier mogul had the token.

Was the box switched out?

 

[Simon]

The 4F at Bitton is a bit of a convoluted and sad story, still a long way from steaming.

There is but one picture of a 4F in "my" collection, I don't know which one it is, perhaps someone can work it out - the tender edge is a bit mangled!

 

[LarryG]

4F's get a 'bad press' on some railway videos, but the seemed capable machines to me. I got a lift from Newton Heath shed on one.

 

[daifly]

The 4F at Bitton is a bit of a convoluted and sad story, still a long way from steaming.

There is but one picture of a 4F in "my" collection, I don't know which one it is, perhaps someone can work it out - the tender edge is a bit mangled!

View attachment 154894

I suspect that this might give us a clue!
Dave

 

[Focalplane]

Well, there were enough Midland/LMS 4Fs around so I am sure some of them were under par, Larry! Hot boxes seem to have been the main problem that I have read about, but that was a general comment about Derby designs.

As far as 7mm scale kits, there is a nice Connoisseur one which I have built, but this may be news to some, David Andrews "recently" announced his version.

Latest News

www.locomotivekits.com

I would suggest anyone interested contact David to see if and when the kits may be released.

 

[Allen M]

Was the box switched out?

Hi Rob.
I know Hampton Loade can be switched out with a token from Bridgnorth to Highley. When it is the signals on one line, the 'straight' one on the station building/ SB side are dropped in each direction.
I have seen this.
It is my understanding that a similar arrangement is possible between Highley and Bewdley which would cause the ' wrong signal/ wrong line' working at Arley

Regards
Allen

 

[oldravendale]

I'll be back with more photos and acknowledgements soon but I'm going to travel off piste myself for a moment.....

I'm going to try to make it to Loughborough this weekend. It's probably the last time to see "Tornado" before it goes for overhaul at the end of January and 55019 will be in operation with a DMU service as well. Not to mention 73156, but that's almost not worth mentioning in view of the other options. I don't usually do photos nowadays, but......

I'm still trying to sort the diary out but remain hopeful as I write this.

Brian

 

[Osgood]

I'm very tempted by their Winter Steam Gala (28-30 Jan), but it depends if we have thrown caution to the wind by then in terms of crowds - not sure a steamed-up carriage is the safest environment at present!

Mind you, some reckon the best way to enjoy the spectacle is from a quiet embankment - I mean just how much trouble can you get into lineside.......

 

[Dave Holt]

4F's get a 'bad press' on some railway videos, but the seemed capable machines to me. I got a lift from Newton Heath shed on one.

Larry, from reading various books by ex-footplate-men, it seems that the 4Fs were strong engines with a reasonable turn of speed so were versatile. As I understand, the steaming wasn't as free as a Midland 3F and was very much dependant on firing technique and fire condition. As already indicated, the main complaints were about inadequate bearing sizes in both axleboxes and coupling rod crank pins. The latter being rather prone to snapping off. Regarding the main bearings, the width is largely constrained by squeezing two cranks and four eccentrics between the frames and maintaining a reasonable cylinder diameter. Other inside cylinder locos all had this constraint, so perhaps they increased bearing area by having larger diameter journals, wheels slightly dished on the inside, etc?
None of this will be relevant in preservation, of course.
Dave.

 

[LarryG]

I know what you are saying Dave, but having worked on the footplate and on buses, I suppose I look at them as transport businesses working round the clock 7 days a week. The simple and robust 4F 0-6-0's covered so many areas of operation without the added complication of pony trucks, bogies and other things.

Giving crews machines they knew well made sense. The final 45 examples were built 1937-41 period during Stanier's tenure because they were what the operating department asked for, not Black Fives or 8F's. I think that is the bottom line.

 

[Focalplane]

Experience from my Tamworth days says that 4Fs were the staple on freight workings at High Level, while 8Fs dominated the Trent Valley Line. Was that due to old allegiances or, as Larry says, because 4Fs simply worked better on the cross country freights in the midst of a coal mining area?

 

[LarryG]

The local MPD responsible for garaging and rostering locos would know which power class was best suited to particular duties. A duty might start with a local goods job for which an 4F would suffice, and maybe a trip working. But then the next part might mean a trip down to a power station for empties, and return with loaded coal wagons, so the whole turn would draw an 7F or 8F.

 

[oldravendale]

Having already been restored once it seems a great shame that the operational 4F seems to have now gone backwards! Anyway, thanks all for your thoughts and comments.

The next two photos are of the Jubilees at Barry. First is 45690, Leander. It was withdrawn from Bristol Barrow Road in March 1964 arriving at Barry in July 1964. In May 1972 it moved to Dinting for restoration. Leander then went to the Severn Valley Railway to live in 1984, It's currently operational at Carnforth.



The second Jubilee at Barry was 45699, Galatea, regarded by me as a lost cause on the basis that one set of driving wheels had been cut following (I was told at the time) a derailment in the yard. Anyway, it was withdrawn from Shrewsbury in November 1964 and went to Barry in January 1965. It was removed from Barry in 1980 to provide spares for Leander. It returned to steam in 2013 at Carnforth.. It remains operational based at Carnforth.

Look at all those lovely tank wagons in the background which I singularly failed to photograph!



Brian