Building a layout.

paratom

Western Thunderer
Readers of this post will either have already built a layout or maybe contemplating doing so. If you are about to embark on building a layout what criteria’s are you going to set yourself. Having the space to build your chosen location is probably the most important aspect for me. Does the space you have determine what gauge you model in? I think most modellers would agree that most layouts are a compromise but does the scale they model in reflect on how much space they have or just their interest in that particular scale. I have seen superb O gauge layouts modelled in small spaces and terrible N gauge layouts modelled in large spaces which proves you don’t necessarily have to match your gauge relative to the space you have. I for one am going to stick with 4mm which will determine the size of the station I’m going to model with the space I have. Another aspect of building a layout is whether or not you are going to want to exhibit it. Being a member of a club that is used to exhibiting layouts; I will certainly want to. One thought that has come to my mind is, are you going to be able to take the layout with you if you ever decide to move house. Not so much a problem with a small layout but do you really want to find yourself in a position where your looking for a house to accommodate your large layout and if your married how would your partner feel about it. There seems a lot to think about if you are contemplating on building a layout which I’m sure some modellers could expand on. It would be useful to hear from fellow modellers who have built a layout or started building one what experiences they have been taught, god or bad.
 

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Everyone's preference and situation is going to differ, and I can say that my own interest is 7mm scale but wasn't always, I started with 4mm P4 to be precise, space was not considered at all to be honest I was just going to build what I could in what ever space was available, a room in the house I was living in at the time.
I'd built a couple of loco's, coach and wagon stock plus a little track as I'd figured out what I could build in the space I'd got. But then I got into 7mm
not considering space for a layout. By this time we'd moved house and I built a 20'-0" long workshop not primarily to house a model railway but for the carpentry equipment I was using for work. I was happy just to build models for the time being as we new we wouldn't be staying there for ever.
My Wife and I were determined to eventually retire to Suffolk and open countryside with a big enough plot so we would have the garden and surrounds we wanted and also I could build the size of outbuilding needed for a modest railway and workshop if a property with suitable out buildings couldn't be found.
So for me it was a long term plan really. We consider ourselves very fortunate to have been able to do so. I now have a workshop 32'-x 18' which is more than big enough for my intended needs. The layout that I have been planning for ten years, yes that long, will now get off the ground starting this summer :D.
The fact is even if I wasn't this fortunate and had a much more confined space to work with I'd still be working to S7 ( 7mm/ft.)

Space didn't determine the scale, the scale came first.

Col.
 

spikey faz

Western Thunderer
[QUOTE="eastsidepilot,

Space didn't determine the scale, the scale came first.

Col.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

I have a more modest 6 foot x 1 foot space for my S7 layout but, when I want to ring the changes I pop my G-scale track and locos into the same space! Works for me.

Mike
 

LarryG

Western Thunderer
Geographical location comes first with me. Gauge is whatever I fancy at the time. Space (length) is already fixed @ 14 feet.
 

paratom

Western Thunderer
It seems to me a lot of 7mm modellers first started out in a smaller scale with the exception of W S Norris who had the money and space to build a large layout based on the Midland Railway station at Hellefield I believe. Financial resources is also a factor although a large 7mm layout won't necessarily cost you more than a 4mm layout. For me time is a consideration and one of the most precious commodities you have that has to be taken into consideration. There is no shame in paying someone in helping you build your layout or building stock for it providing you don’t claim the work as being all yours and don’t give credit to the people who helped you. Now some might say with a very large space you would be wasted modelling in 4mm and I must admit I would be tempted to model in 7mm. Given the choice of modelling a station to scale lengh in 4mm or having to compramise in 7mm, what would you do? Some modellers will have invested a lot of money and time over the years modelling in 4mm and if you were to sell your layout your return would never reflect the time, money and effort that went into building it. A good example is the EM gauge layout, Ambergate, that myself and a collegue bought along with the stock. If I did a quick calculation on how much it would cost to pay someone to model Ambergate and build the stock it would work out more than what we paid for it. I’m pleased to say Ambergate minus the stock was sold on to a modeller who converted it to P4. So yes the other solution is buying a layout or having one built rather than building one which I’m all in favor of. If your bench mark is Pendon for the quality of a layout built for you then your probably going to be out of luck and would need quite a few people involved to come close. So if it cost me several thousand pounds and gives me a few extra years playing trains its money well spent.
 

Neil

Western Thunderer
I build or have built layouts in the 4mm-ish scales, EM, OO, 009 and HO. I've built layouts in an alcove in a corner of a room and had a 20'x20' room at my disposal to fill with layout. I like the 4mm-ish scales they suit my broad brush preferences, 7mm and above whilst lovely are a bit too 'in yer face' for my liking. For me it's always been scale first, area second.

Small layouts are easy to transport, to exhibit and to move house with. Big layouts I think work best built as a single unit even though that means that house moves mean component recovery rather than re-use. Who wouldn't want the chance to start again, to build back better?
 

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Now some might say with a very large space you would be wasted modelling in 4mm and I must admit I would be tempted to model in 7mm. Given the choice of modelling a station to scale length in 4mm or having to compromise in 7mm, what would you do?

I suppose it depends on specific interest as well, personally, for my own modelling, I'm not interested in big mainline stations or lines which helps although even minor lines can take up space. My own project is a minor passenger line but an important freight line so the available space will not be crowded by station buildings and platforms, there will be a station but it's not the main picture almost being incidental to the whole layout with freight and it's infrastructure being the main emphasise along with a lot of the non-railway features.

This in effect makes for a more interesting layout to operate and creates a wider variation of subjects to be modelled , you don't want to be bogged down building wagons for ever.
I wouldn't pay anyone else to build it, yes I'll pay for components made by others, and will invite close college's to contribute to the development of it if they have the desire to do so and some have expressed interest , they would certainly be credited for it and likewise I'll do the same for them.

Col.
 

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Small layouts are easy to transport, to exhibit and to move house with. Big layouts I think work best built as a single unit even though that means that house moves mean component recovery rather than re-use. Who wouldn't want the chance to start again, to build back better?

I reckon the best route with large non-exhibitable layouts is to build the baseboards as separate units, say 6'-0" , build your layout as one over them and then if for any reason in the future you have to dismantle a fine saw can be passed through the joints ( once the bolts are removed :rolleyes:) and the layout dealt with. This is how I'll build the main part of my project which consists of the station and exchange sidings the other part is a wharf and I may build the boards for this as being exhibitable.

Col.
 

simond

Western Thunderer
I agree with a modular approach. I may have been a bit over-ambitious but this sits on 4 asymmetric legs, 2 at one end, one at the back in the middle and one at the thin end. The structure is an italic “ T “, the spine of which is a 6” timber box girder. The baseboards are very light 4mm ply, supported on lots of ribs of 10 x 30 on edge. I would not do that again, it’s light but it’s noisy. Not a huge problem for a loco shed, but it would be horrid with a large loco giving it the works with 12 on...

Assuming things go according to plan, it will form part of a greater project, once the extension gets built. The story is in my Porth Dinllaen thread on t’other channel.

It’s not particularly heavy, but it’s spectacularly awkward, so moving it will require many hands, though it’s on castors, and two of us can roll it out if I clear the workbench. The buildings lift off, of course.

image.jpg

As it currently occupies one end of our lounge, MrsD is quite keen on a permanent home for it :).

Then we’ll be able to change the calendar which is for January 2015...

Atb
Simon
 

Deano747

Western Thunderer
I agree with a modular approach. I may have been a bit over-ambitious but this sits on 4 asymmetric legs, 2 at one end, one at the back in the middle and one at the thin end. The structure is an italic “ T “, the spine of which is a 6” timber box girder. The baseboards are very light 4mm ply, supported on lots of ribs of 10 x 30 on edge. I would not do that again, it’s light but it’s noisy. Not a huge problem for a loco shed, but it would be horrid with a large loco giving it the works with 12 on...

Assuming things go according to plan, it will form part of a greater project, once the extension gets built. The story is in my Porth Dinllaen thread on t’other channel.

It’s not particularly heavy, but it’s spectacularly awkward, so moving it will require many hands, though it’s on castors, and two of us can roll it out if I clear the workbench. The buildings lift off, of course.

View attachment 137704

As it currently occupies one end of our lounge, MrsD is quite keen on a permanent home for it :).

Then we’ll be able to change the calendar which is for January 2015...

Atb
Simon

A very patient Mrs D! My Mrs D wouldn't allow such a thing, although I'm allowed a small table/ workbench in one corner for winter modelling.

Regards, Rob.
 

paratom

Western Thunderer
Building a layout requires so many skills and if you're lucky enough to possess all those skills, myself not included, you have probably cleared the biggest hurdle. So how do we solve the areas where we are lacking in skills to build our layout which no doubt some modelers face when building a layout. The process of building a layout will be a learning curve for most people and I think it’s made easier if you surround yourself with experts by being a member of a club whose members will have varying skills. Most large layouts have been built with the help of others, Retford comes to mind, but there is a cautionary tale here in that Roy Jackson never got to see his layout completed. Maybe like the great patrons who commissioned large buildings but never saw them finished Roy was happen to pass on the baton to someone else. I’m very conscious that when I do start to build my layout I don’t fall into the same category. Maybe years ago, modelers with children could be entrusted in completing their unfinished layouts but how many modelers today have children who follow in their footsteps. At the moment I’m building trees for a collogues layout who possesses skills I don’t have and maybe when I get around to building my layout the favor will be returned. Do we have any modelers out there who have taken advantage of this concept and maybe we could have a section in the forum for this particular purpose?
 
Last edited:

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
I believe anyone who is contemplating building a layout should consider how much initially they feel they can achieve, the actual physical size of the layout the larger it is the more work involved.
Definitely belonging to a scale society, group and club will help you immensely but whether or not you'll get help with building your layout is not guaranteed but you will learn different skills off each other I certainly have from my own S7 group.
Some skills just need to be learnt, when I started in P4 I hadn't ever built any track before, I'd built models right from a 6 year old with my Father but not railway track. I bought Iain Rice's book 'An Approach To Building Finescale Track in 4mm scale ' , highly recommended regardless of the scale your working in as the principals are all the same, and I just got on with it and learnt.
Track building I believe is one of the basic skills any keen railway modeller needs to learn as once it's built you'll need to maintain it as well, it's the foundations of any layout, apart from the base boards :rolleyes::D
Finances also need to be considered, can you afford to build it especially if you're considering paying others to supply elements of the layout, fine if your a multi millionaire you can be as much of a cheque book modeller as you like but most of us are not and don't want to be. So we have to consider not only the size but the cost.
You may have to scale down your original thoughts of what you can achieve, better to compromise and achieve something less grand than nothing at all.
If your lucky enough to have joined a society group as I have then perhaps a joint effort to build something perhaps larger or should I say more comprehensive for exhibition will give you the kicks you desire but this usually means having a very generous host with the room to do so on a regular basis.
Perhaps concentrate on something achievable which will involve most if not all of the skills needed that could be extended at a later date.

As regards having or not having kid's to finish it, I reckon once I've gone it don't matter as I wont be here to see it, I'll leave it in my will for my model railway group mates to deal with as they wish :thumbs::D.

I've learnt many skills in my life time, most from my Father ( I was his apprentice in trade ) but others from mates , but it's the desire to learn that get's you there, if you don't have that then it's back to your wallet.....if it's fat enough ! :eek: and you can't claim the build as your own. But then would you have enjoyed the experience.

Col.
 
Last edited:

Phil O

Western Thunderer
I would stick with 4mm whatever the space, if a larger space was available I could have more scenery, not cram it full of track, I prefer the trains to be in the scenery. A sort of Pendon approach, but also a layout that I can operate or just sit back and watch trains go by, depending on my mood. Something I have learnt, is not to be too ambitious at the beginning, but start modestly and expand the project as progress is made, unless you can rope in help that as the skill levels to at least match your expectations.
 
Top