Finescale - of a sort?!

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Thanks Mike and Tim! I suppose it is not too bad - from quite a distance anyway?!

Here is another bit of good news: After grovelling around on the floor for the umpteenth time, I managed to find the flying needle - several feet away, and in exactly the opposite direction from the logical! With the pen back in full working order, I thought it best to quickly finish the job and tackle the other side of the tank before the last vestige of self confidence completely evaporated?!

It was an utterly horrible experience yet again: Even with the tool working perfectly, the task was only marginally easier to undertake and the finish very slightly improved - but at least both sides appear to more or less match now...?!

Getting over the initial shock will probably still take a bit longer though?

When the dust finally settles a bit, I might then feel ready to start experimenting with some "heavy handles"!

Pete.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
A glutton for punishment seems to be something of an understatement..?!

Having done the other side, and then very happily put the tools (with none too reluctant, forever intentions!) away, the next task is to work out the precise size for a pair of nice Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway crest transfers.

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My old trick of layering two different images on the laptop screen for comparison revealed an awful error. If the crabby lines weren't bad enough, I had painted the fine, inner ones with the wrong place spacing!

The more I looked at it...

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the worse it got!

I just could not live with that degree of error, shouting away at me every time I walk past, so I'm afraid it was out with the brushes, pen and the tin of blood(y) red paint again.

A description will have to suffice, as no pics of the process we taken: In some way it was fortunate (?) that the new inner lines were just clear of the existing ones, all round, and I was able to paint them first. The final act was to "back fill" the entire separating band with black, not only to cover the old lines but also reduce the effect of the heavy enamel paint edges showing up too much.

A few hiccups along the way were soon, more or less rectified while the paint was wet.

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Subtle? Yes. I know!

That is the first, last side done!!

I suppose that I had failed to take into account the fact that the original Horwich signwriters had applied the lining to the same dimensions as their regular size locomotives? The peculiar scale proportions had me critically confused!

At least the crests should fit a bit better now ?!!

Pete.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Sorry I am late replying Brian, and thank you so much for your kindness.

You are quite right in saying that I don't believe you, but that is perhaps because I am only too painfully aware that there are plenty of good folk who might be fully justified in their opinion that I should have been put somewhere nice and safe, (a long time ago) and only occasionally let out, under close supervision...??

I will always feel that I am simply playing catch up with my efforts here on WT, while enjoying being in the company of so many with far greater experience, skills and talents!

Pete.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Visible progress has slowed up a bit over the last few days, but was has happened is nonetheless significant! Glenn-gp of this parish, and even closer to me, had generously agreed to help by printing some waterslide transfers of the lovely Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway crests - provided I could supply some form of artwork. That became a task that actually proved to be a tad more difficult than expected, as accurate, and usable depictions of the LYR crest do seem to be a bit hard to come by!

There are two certainties to tangle with: Firstly, as far as I can tell, none of the established model suppliers have ever produced one - for the larger scales anyway. I have found images of some superbly engineered, and beautifully detailed models - all and every one complete but sans crests! I am not entirely sure that I could trust anything applied to the handful of full size, "preserved" engines either - especially considering what "Wren" has carried since 1964?! In that particular case, the BR Horwich Works painters were unable to obtain anything either, and so the engine displays a supreme example of the signwriter's art - perfectly executed, - but in the wrong style - and in slightly the wrong place - on a livery that is evidently spurious and utterly fanciful!! With all that in mind, I fear the chances of determining any accurate rendition of colouring, let alone correct letterforms, etc., for any particular period will have to remain somewhat conjectural?

The second point is that in the absence of any alterative, the essential adornments will just have to be homemade, printed with inkjet on whatever transfer paper is conveniently obtainable!

Being aware that the white film is only barely opaque when applied, I marked out circles, fractionally over the scaled size, on the tank sides with a compass and soft pencil, then brush filled with three coats of white enamel.

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With time allowed for the patches to cure before varnishing, I settled down to searching for reference.

Oh dear! Now it would appear that the original version of the crest had a "Tan" ground to the garter, with a broad, plain, block shaded letterform, but some time before the saddle tanks were installed on the eight little engines, the tan was substituted with a blue version, also with a more traditional, plain outlined, serif lettering thereon. It is impossible to tell whether or not the letters, on either type, were gilt, printed a flat gold, or with a yellowish shade of ink?

That was where the fun started:

I could only find two images that were potentially clear enough - one was nice and sharp, but of the earlier Tan form. It was also slightly distorted. The second one had the correct, later style lettering - but weirdly on a brown, rather than blue ground! This latter image could, at best described as "muddy" and somewhat lacking in contrast! I decided to try re colouring and retouching both, using my basic "paint" program - a fiddly, sometimes frustrating and otherwise rather time consuming activity, before handing over the files to Glenn. He was able to correct the misshapen one, then printed off proof copies on paper.

That was where the "Ahhh???" part started:

They came out much sharper and more crisp than I could have hoped for or even imagined.

"I'll do both of them" Glenn helpfully offered.

This morning, I was handed a small envelope containing several of the final, beautifully printed and cut out transfers.

This was where the dilemma really started:

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By the way, my camera was quite incapable of even remotely capturing the gorgeous depth and richness of the colours in the above image!!

It really should be a "no brainer", with the nearest one having so much more depth and detail!

Trouble is, the far one has the apparently correct, spindly letters, which would tend to reveal more of the blue in the garter, but while almost equally bright, the detail is slightly less defined! The five lions passant, are almost invisible on the York shield!

After ranting so vociferously about the old Horwich painters, and their unwitting - and potentially misleading errors...

I will ironically end up doing just the same thing:

D'nno if it's right, but it'll look right nice!!

Pete.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
The tale of the transfers has taken a few twists and turns until today!

While the inkjet printer has produced a surprisingly good level of colour density and detail for the transfers, they do require some tricky preparations prior to application, as I was to discover.

There are quite frequently asked questions "out there" on various modeller websites, but sadly, few provide much in the way of satisfactory answers. It never ceases to amaze me that on so many well established forums, so many people seem to completely misunderstand a simple, straightforward query, and go waffling off about something only vaguely related - if indeed at all?! Time and again I have wasted time wading through page after page of really interesting, but utterly irrelevant replies - more often in forlorn hope of a useful answer!

Clearly, an experimental approach was required. Being already aware that the "ink", or dye to be more precise, is water soluble, the raw transfers would have to be thoroughly pre sealed and set before attempting the application process, and having gleaned a little information, including various slightly puzzling warnings to only use an acrylic varnish - which in my my own ignorance I have always assumed was itself water based - rather than oil or spirit varieties, I started with what I imagined was a fairly innocuous Ronseal Clear...

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Nope...!!

Hmmm?! Well, the brushes are meant to be easily washed out in warm, soapy water, and I was fully expecting to see the print start smearing or blurring. I definitely wasn't prepared for such an immediate and aggressively destructive reaction though!

It looked as if I would have to bite the bullet, and go fishing; though with prices ranging from about seven quid to the obscene, for just two little crests, and nowt else foreseeable, buying some proper stuff was a bit disconcerting. What else could I do?

I never got on with Humbrol varnishes, and so haven't used any for absolutely years. A rummage in the drawers produced an ancient tinlet of "Clear satin", with a faded price label of less than a quid on the bottom, so rather madly, I thought it might be worth a long shot. When I opened it up it stank like hell, but still seemed to mix quite well, after stirring for an age anyway!

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Perfick...!

Despite the apparently obvious quantity of extremely unpleasant solvents contained in what I assume to be an old fashioned, oil based varnish, it behaved utterly impeccably!!

After having waited for a suitable amount of time for it to cure, I got a dish of warm water and dropped the first one in, with some trepidation I must say...

It was absolutely fine, with an intact transfer cleanly separating and sliding off the backing...

That was where even more of the fun started:

Both Glenn and I had assumed that a white carrier film would not be opaque enough on a jet black surface, hence the carefully painted patch on the tanks, but back when the good man was about to do the final prints, he checked his pack and panicked, thinking he had mistakenly ordered the transparent variety! In response, and obviously while completely trusting his dad's measuring capabilities, he had carefully removed the black borders, assuming they were no longer required. No problem, it happens to the best of us!

I'm afraid that it was a problem though, and became evident at the moment that first transfer started to move! I continued applying it anyway, and discovered another difficulty: The carrier was not only white, but an extremely efficient blocker to boot! I found that despite the contrast, it was almost impossible to see through it to the boundaries of the patch underneath, and be able to line the crest up accordingly! I rather sheepishly had to request some more crests, with the black borders restored, and another little envelope of two more, plus a spare, was delivered in double quick time!

Another unexpected issue was revealed when Glenn machine cut the new ones out of the sheet. It had not been so obvious on the white edges, but this particular carrier film "ragged" quite badly when cut with any sort of bladed tool - even a brand new Swann Moreton 10A! Snipping round with scissors only reduced the problem slightly, and still really showed up on the black!

Nothing that cannot be sorted later down the line..?!

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The images do look rough, and for all the world give the appearance that the transfers are still stuck on their thick paper backing sheets - but I can assure you that is an illusion!! The carrier film is quite acceptably fine, and so the terrible looking white edges will be covered with thinned black enamel paint, before some overall coats of protective varnish are applied.

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After a touch of gentle burnishing, the paint round the edges should help to thoroughly seal the large transfer down anyway?!

Pete.
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
The images do look rough, and for all the world give the appearance that the transfers are still stuck on their thick paper backing sheets - but I can assure you that is an illusion!! The carrier film is quite acceptably fine, and so the terrible looking white edges will be covered with thinned black enamel paint, before some overall coats of protective varnish are applied.

Hi Pete

This may mean some careful, delicate and patient work but once the decal has set and dried I'd be inclined to gently feather the decal edges with wet very very fine wet 'n' dry wet emery paper. This will naturally slightly scuff the surrounding paintwork but should reduce the 'unsightly' decal edge. It could be finished with an ultra fine grit/polishing paper or even manicurists nail polishing sticks found in supermarkets and pharmacies (I use these for polishing light lenses I've cut from clear acrylic rod and metal details on locos.

Screenshot 2021-10-19 at 21-11-15 Manicare Manicure Essentials 3 Way Nail Buffer.jpg

Once satisfied you can re-apply some black paint and blend it into the decal edge. Then varnish once dry.

Ideally it would have been good to feather the decal edges whilst on the backing sheet prior to applying. I have done this on several occasions with O scale decals I've cut from a sheet.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Thanks for the tip Dave, I really appreciate that. The polishing sticks do indeed look like an ideal tool. I am not at all worried about matting the surrounding paintwork as I fully intend to give the whole saddle tank and dome at least two or three good coats of varnish to protect it anyway - just as in the original LYR, Horwich paint specifications!!

Pete.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
I fear you are quite right Michael!

You can teach a dog not to bark, and even an old one some new tricks, but can you teach it not to wag it's tail..?!

Pete.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Still being annoying and gnawing away at it, making more dust and varnish pongs!

Attempting to feather off the transfer edges with very fine abrasives only succeeded in raising more "ragging"! Clearly, that carrier film is made out of some peculiar plastic that behaves in much the same way as the soft stuff mentioned only a few posts ago. As the cut edge turned to a fibrous, fluffy white, there also appeared to be an imminent risk of a domino effect, with the transfer potentially starting to peel back off. Ooh err! I thought it was a good idea to stop trying at that point and apply some paint all round in order to reseal it.

It looked a bit of a mess, and when the paint was hard enough, it required more rubbing down in the hope of levelling it out a bit.

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I doubt whether I will ever get that little step to disappear now?

If I had cut the carrier any closer to the image at the beginning, I am certain that I would have been in even greater trouble at this stage, with the delicate "rope" effect border being impossible to repair!

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After several coats of varnish, and admittedly when viewed from the majority of angles, it doesn't look half so bad...

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But...

Whenever a bright reflection passes by...

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Tis cause enough to make me cry!

I take some consolation in a faint glimmer of hope, in that there are now sufficient layers of varnish covering the crest to allow another round of cutting back at the lumpy edges, with slightly less risk of picking up any of the white, hairy stuff again?

That can then be followed by a fairly thorough, final cut all over with a super fine abrasive before the last top coat is applied?

We shall see...

Pete.
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Pete - it looks magnificent! Look at a transfer on a 12" to the ft loco and you'll see something similar. You've seen the locos photographed in the '60s with the original signage grinning through.

However, you'll want perfection in your normal style. I've no suggestions except to say that the whole thing looks superb.

Brian
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
Thank you so much Brian and Chris. Yes indeed, the full size, screen printed transfers as well as the quite heavy lining enamels were rather thick, (in order to be opaque enough) and could still show clearly through subsequent layers of paint - see cropped pic below of a classic Isle of White "Standard" motor car:

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(Image downloaded from the net, and shown here for illustrative purposes only)

I suppose it is just the feeling that I should have been able to do it a bit better, and am therefore resigned to be not just a canine with calcium, but a large cat with circular markings at the same time?!

Pete.
 

Eastsidepilot

Western Thunderer
Pete,
Talking of errors by painters, sign writers etc. one of the haulage firms I drove for had a brand new curtain side trailer delivered with company name emblazoned proudly on each side, it wasn't until the fitter noticed that the word Haulage was spelt 'Halauge' that all hell broke loose ! with the Guv' doing something like this across the yard :rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::rant::headbang::headbang::headbang:
...we did laugh, :D

Col.
 
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