4mm High Level Kits LNER Y5
- Thread starter PaulR
- Start date
AJC
Western Thunderer
What with 6' 8" wheels and usually called a castle?
Sorry - couldn't resist.
Mike
I reckon the S15 that's in the rewheeling queue would give the Civil Engineer enough palpations, though I do like a Castle. Truth is, I probably prefer panniers to the 'proper' SR machine for the job, an M7, though I do have an O2 which is plausible, at least... 8745 did have a full set of SR lamp irons though so honour will be satisfied.
Adam
PaulR
Western Thunderer
Thanks Adam. In building this kit, I did more things for the first time than is probably strictly advisable but the sheer quality of the design, the fit of the parts and the instructions made it possible. The whole thing does become gradually more delicate as you go along and I can be prone to clumsiness. If I felt myself heading into the 'Frank Spencer Zone' I stopped and cleared everything up for another day - it has taken me years to develop that skill!
The motion was tricky and I was actually glad that I don't model in P4 as fitting the coupling rods onto the front wheels behind the cylinders would have required techniques beyond my current level. I did manage it in EM Gauge though and I'll be posting that up soon. I have a Black Hawthorn on order from Chris and when I build that, I'll be better prepared for what's coming.
Presumably your bit of the SR is in ex-LSWR country. Somewhere near Southampton?
Paul
AJC
Western Thunderer
Well, that's a tricky one isn't it? If you're going to learn these things then all at once is the most likely way. The High Level RSH saddle tank I started with came with most of the same challenges, but it's a bit bigger which must help. There's different schools of thought on crosshead clearance; some hold that it's easier - or at least, no harder - in P4 as the wheels are thinner, but I haven't tried.
No - though that would justify the B4 (a self control failure when confronted with a bargain Dapol body: it’ll be on hire to my quarry company, though modelled on a Plymouth-based machine and I did live in Southampton for some years) but further west on the LSWR. Somerset: frontier/bandit country! My pannier will work a Maunsell push-pull set...
Adam
PS - no excuse whatsoever for the Jinty, but it is at least a Radstock one!
No - though that would justify the B4 (a self control failure when confronted with a bargain Dapol body: it’ll be on hire to my quarry company, though modelled on a Plymouth-based machine and I did live in Southampton for some years) but further west on the LSWR. Somerset: frontier/bandit country! My pannier will work a Maunsell push-pull set...
Adam
PS - no excuse whatsoever for the Jinty, but it is at least a Radstock one!
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PaulR
Western Thunderer
At this point, things started to become delicate, and for me, this was new territory as I had never built a locomotive with any kind of valve gear before. The cylinder assembly is constructed as a separate piece and remains so until the final assembly and once again, the instructions are very clear. Oddly, there is suddenly a need for 1.6 OD brass tubing which took me by surprise as most materials are provided in the kit. I sourced some online and luckily it was delivered quickly. I’m sure that this part of the build would have been much harder if the parts hadn’t fitted together so well.
Bending the cylinder rappers took time, once again with annealing.
The connecting rods attach to the crossheads and are held in place by a small brass plate soldered on to the back. The crossheads slide through the brass rod in the centre of the cylinder. Soldering the plate is an extremely fiddly job and it actually took me a few days to work out how to achieve it. Eventually I contrived a way of holding everything still with specially shaped clothes pegs and hair grips.
I'm being honest here - any description I can offer won't fully convey my anxiety while soldering up these tiny parts. I had visions of tiny pieces melting before my eyes, or disappearing into that black hole beneath the workbench; then having to make new parts myself somehow. I'm aware that those of you who build locos with complex valve gear are used to all this and have foolproof methods - all I can say is that you have my admiration and respect!
Once made, I taped the moving parts up for safety.
Bending the cylinder rappers took time, once again with annealing.
The connecting rods attach to the crossheads and are held in place by a small brass plate soldered on to the back. The crossheads slide through the brass rod in the centre of the cylinder. Soldering the plate is an extremely fiddly job and it actually took me a few days to work out how to achieve it. Eventually I contrived a way of holding everything still with specially shaped clothes pegs and hair grips.
I'm being honest here - any description I can offer won't fully convey my anxiety while soldering up these tiny parts. I had visions of tiny pieces melting before my eyes, or disappearing into that black hole beneath the workbench; then having to make new parts myself somehow. I'm aware that those of you who build locos with complex valve gear are used to all this and have foolproof methods - all I can say is that you have my admiration and respect!
Once made, I taped the moving parts up for safety.
PaulR
Western Thunderer
Fortuitously, in GER days this loco was painted black. There are discussions as to whether they were lined, and photos seem to show both lined and unlined locos. Lyn Brooks, in an article in the GER Society Journal, notes that;
‘It seems to be the custom on those British railways that had a coloured livery, to have a black lined livery for goods engines, whilst minor shunting types were unlined. Several authors have given the impression that the same was true for the GER. However, the evidence seems to show that the railway was, perhaps characteristically, rather perverse in that goods engines were unlined, whilst certain shunting engines were, in fact lined out.’
Although there are images which show lining, the photo of my chosen prototype, No. 227, appears to be unlined, so that’s how I’m going to paint it.
Because there are lots of nooks and crannies to this loco, I decided to airbrush Phoenix Precision grey primer rather than using an aerosol spray, which can be rather a blunt instrument. I masked up the hornblocks, wheel treads and connecting rods, and worked out how to hold all the parts during the painting and drying process. It all looked rather ‘Heath Robinson’ but it did the job.
It’s a good idea to take lots of photographs as you work, and pass them on to a trusted friend. A photo of the front of the loco (below) after painting the buffer beam revealed something that I hadn’t seen; a distinct gap round the bottom of the chimney on one side. My good friend Richard Heard pointed this out to me (he offers plenty of praise too!). Priming does a great job of revealing blemishes and unattractive gaps so I went round the loco and filled here and there with Miliput. This attention to detail is worth the extra effort.
‘It seems to be the custom on those British railways that had a coloured livery, to have a black lined livery for goods engines, whilst minor shunting types were unlined. Several authors have given the impression that the same was true for the GER. However, the evidence seems to show that the railway was, perhaps characteristically, rather perverse in that goods engines were unlined, whilst certain shunting engines were, in fact lined out.’
Although there are images which show lining, the photo of my chosen prototype, No. 227, appears to be unlined, so that’s how I’m going to paint it.
Because there are lots of nooks and crannies to this loco, I decided to airbrush Phoenix Precision grey primer rather than using an aerosol spray, which can be rather a blunt instrument. I masked up the hornblocks, wheel treads and connecting rods, and worked out how to hold all the parts during the painting and drying process. It all looked rather ‘Heath Robinson’ but it did the job.
It’s a good idea to take lots of photographs as you work, and pass them on to a trusted friend. A photo of the front of the loco (below) after painting the buffer beam revealed something that I hadn’t seen; a distinct gap round the bottom of the chimney on one side. My good friend Richard Heard pointed this out to me (he offers plenty of praise too!). Priming does a great job of revealing blemishes and unattractive gaps so I went round the loco and filled here and there with Miliput. This attention to detail is worth the extra effort.
PaulR
Western Thunderer
The first job after priming was to spray the buffer beams bright red, and the interior in a buff colour. This was quite fiddly as there is very little room in there. These areas were then masked for the coming black coat.
Satin black was duly sprayed and all the different parts were left to dry. On the loco, a gloss varnish was sprayed to the tank sides, and once dry, ‘GER’ transfers from Fox Transfers were added. For these, I measured up against photos of the prototype and used marked-up masking tape to get them correctly placed. Everything was then sprayed with a coat of satin varnish.
Attachments
PaulR
Western Thunderer
It was now time to set up the frames and mount the motor. The gearbox is designed specifically for the kit and went together very nicely. Because Mashima motors are now no longer generally available, Chris at High Level Kits provided me with an alternative, which runs very sweetly and quietly.
The first job was to get the front wheels in place and properly quartered. For this I was able to use the GW Quartering Jig. As this is a four-coupled locomotive I considered that there is no need for side play, so I measured across the axles and was able to calculate the thickness of washers required. These were made up, with some filing, to fit with a minimal gap. I was aware that there is for little space for the coupling rods between the wheels and the connecting rods, but it was a bit of a surprise to find how just how little room there actually is inEM Gauge. I know it can be done in P4, and P4 wheels are slimmer, but I think I’ll leave that to the experts! I tried thinning the coupling rod initially as suggested in the instructions, which also suggest reversing the top hat bearing. It still took up too much space. I will admit to some concern about this and I was well out of my comfort zone – had I spent 90 hours on this model, only to fail at the last hurdle!
This plan, which was drawn by JA Gardner and I have copied from the August 1972 edition of 'Model Railways' (I hope it's OK to reproduce a small section here), demonstrates that even on the real thing, there is almost no space between the coupling rods and the connecting rods.
All was not lost, though, and I did find a way. The nuts provided by Alan Gibson are now small, threaded top hat bushes. I found that if I reversed these, abandoning the crankpin bushes altogether, I could set the coupling rod up close against the wheel. Once I had filed the crankpin bolt flush against the bush and held it with a dab of Locktite, it worked. I also reversed the bush on the rear set of wheels and thankfully it all fitted together well. As I had used the quartering wheel press, no adjustment was needed, and there was just one very slight tight spot which was cured with a little judicious opening out of the coupling rods – but before there is an intake of breath from the cognoscenti, it was only a little filing.
I will admit that this part of the process was so anxiety-inducing that I forgot to take any photos.
The first job was to get the front wheels in place and properly quartered. For this I was able to use the GW Quartering Jig. As this is a four-coupled locomotive I considered that there is no need for side play, so I measured across the axles and was able to calculate the thickness of washers required. These were made up, with some filing, to fit with a minimal gap. I was aware that there is for little space for the coupling rods between the wheels and the connecting rods, but it was a bit of a surprise to find how just how little room there actually is inEM Gauge. I know it can be done in P4, and P4 wheels are slimmer, but I think I’ll leave that to the experts! I tried thinning the coupling rod initially as suggested in the instructions, which also suggest reversing the top hat bearing. It still took up too much space. I will admit to some concern about this and I was well out of my comfort zone – had I spent 90 hours on this model, only to fail at the last hurdle!
This plan, which was drawn by JA Gardner and I have copied from the August 1972 edition of 'Model Railways' (I hope it's OK to reproduce a small section here), demonstrates that even on the real thing, there is almost no space between the coupling rods and the connecting rods.
All was not lost, though, and I did find a way. The nuts provided by Alan Gibson are now small, threaded top hat bushes. I found that if I reversed these, abandoning the crankpin bushes altogether, I could set the coupling rod up close against the wheel. Once I had filed the crankpin bolt flush against the bush and held it with a dab of Locktite, it worked. I also reversed the bush on the rear set of wheels and thankfully it all fitted together well. As I had used the quartering wheel press, no adjustment was needed, and there was just one very slight tight spot which was cured with a little judicious opening out of the coupling rods – but before there is an intake of breath from the cognoscenti, it was only a little filing.
I will admit that this part of the process was so anxiety-inducing that I forgot to take any photos.
garethashenden
Western Thunderer
I think you will find this an issue with most outside cylindered locomotives. P4 wheels may be thinner, but the overall width of EM and P4 wheelsets are practically the same.
PaulR
Western Thunderer
The next task was to run the wires from the motor to the I will admit at this point to wishing that I was building a big brute like a J39 instead of a tiny dock engine; there is little room for manoeuvre inside the body. However, with care there is space enough and it is beautifully designed. My initial efforts at running the wires from the motor didn’t work because I couldn’t then close the body onto the chassis. Somehow I resisted my natural instinct to push it. In the end I started again, making carefully measured bends in the wire so that no stress was put on any parts of the body, motor or chassis, and this time it slid together perfectly – oh joy!
As I am using a DC set up, I didn’t need to think about a decoder, but a DCC set up would require careful planning.
The final fitting of the body is also the time when the boiler and firebox are fitted, all held in place by two screws. Perhaps you can guess what was going through my mind at this point – the miserable prospect of an undetectable short circuit!
Well, I needn't have worried...
Despite the fact that some parts of the frames are very close to the wheels, nothing actually touches.
Pick-ups were mounted in the classic manner on pieces of copperclad sleeper. In the case of this locomotive I used two pieces of copperclad connected by thin wire.
I gave her a good run on the rolling road, followed by a test run on a metre length of track, and to my joy she ran sweetly, albeit with a little 0-4-0 wobble.
As I am using a DC set up, I didn’t need to think about a decoder, but a DCC set up would require careful planning.
The final fitting of the body is also the time when the boiler and firebox are fitted, all held in place by two screws. Perhaps you can guess what was going through my mind at this point – the miserable prospect of an undetectable short circuit!
Well, I needn't have worried...
Despite the fact that some parts of the frames are very close to the wheels, nothing actually touches.
Pick-ups were mounted in the classic manner on pieces of copperclad sleeper. In the case of this locomotive I used two pieces of copperclad connected by thin wire.
I gave her a good run on the rolling road, followed by a test run on a metre length of track, and to my joy she ran sweetly, albeit with a little 0-4-0 wobble.
Mike Garwood
Western Thunderer
Excellent stuff, really nice running with no hint of a stutter.
Mike
Mike
PaulR
Western Thunderer
The number plate was fitted. I couldn’t decide on whether to make her 226 or 227. In the end I plumped for 227 because I had a photo of it, but ironically, I have since found a photo of 226 and it looks pretty much identical.
Three link couplings were fitted, and the cab interior was glued in. I used Smiths couplings; although they are oversized they are a bit easier to connect up under the scrutiny of discerning model railway show attendees. The loco was given a light weathering ‘straight out of the manual’. I airbrushed a mixture of Humbrol matt leather and metalcote gunmetal, before touching in the undercarriage with rust and dirt weathering powders, and adding smoke and ash powders lightly to the body.
Interviews were held for a crew. The successful candidates were sprayed all over with Halfords grey primer before being painted with acrylics and fixed with a matt varnish. Coal was added.
I'm very pleased with this little locomotive, which saw me through the current lockdown. It looks OK and it runs well. I know it's not perfect and I know I can do better next time, but I've learnt a huge amount about building etched brass locos - helped along by the amazing quality of the kit and excellent instructions.
I kept a log of the time spent on it, and it totals 120 hours. When related to the cost of the kit, that works out at almost exactly one pound an hour (adding the cost of motor and wheels) which is fantastic value when you consider that I now have a versatile little engine to play with.
I have two projected layouts for this loco. The first is a rural Suffolk riverside cameo scene set on the River Blyth which is in the advanced planning stage, and after that I'm contemplating a London layout which will indulge my shared love of the LBSCR and GER, connected by the East London Railway. Yes, like all railway modellers, I'm a dreamer!
Now, to tidy up the railway shed and enjoy a therapeutic wagon kit before embarking on my next loco, a London Road Models E22.
Three link couplings were fitted, and the cab interior was glued in. I used Smiths couplings; although they are oversized they are a bit easier to connect up under the scrutiny of discerning model railway show attendees. The loco was given a light weathering ‘straight out of the manual’. I airbrushed a mixture of Humbrol matt leather and metalcote gunmetal, before touching in the undercarriage with rust and dirt weathering powders, and adding smoke and ash powders lightly to the body.
Interviews were held for a crew. The successful candidates were sprayed all over with Halfords grey primer before being painted with acrylics and fixed with a matt varnish. Coal was added.
I'm very pleased with this little locomotive, which saw me through the current lockdown. It looks OK and it runs well. I know it's not perfect and I know I can do better next time, but I've learnt a huge amount about building etched brass locos - helped along by the amazing quality of the kit and excellent instructions.
I kept a log of the time spent on it, and it totals 120 hours. When related to the cost of the kit, that works out at almost exactly one pound an hour (adding the cost of motor and wheels) which is fantastic value when you consider that I now have a versatile little engine to play with.
I have two projected layouts for this loco. The first is a rural Suffolk riverside cameo scene set on the River Blyth which is in the advanced planning stage, and after that I'm contemplating a London layout which will indulge my shared love of the LBSCR and GER, connected by the East London Railway. Yes, like all railway modellers, I'm a dreamer!
Now, to tidy up the railway shed and enjoy a therapeutic wagon kit before embarking on my next loco, a London Road Models E22.
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PaulR
Western Thunderer
Thanks for your very kind comment Rob, that's very much appreciated.
Isn't this is a great forum with a friendly and supportive crowd. There is always genuine support without sarcasm or one-upmanship. I can't remember how I came across Western Thunder, but I'm glad that I did.
Isn't this is a great forum with a friendly and supportive crowd. There is always genuine support without sarcasm or one-upmanship. I can't remember how I came across Western Thunder, but I'm glad that I did.
John57sharp
Western Thunderer
Nice work, very well done.
John
John
NHY 581
Western Thunderer
I do get exasperated at times elsewhere and I have to agree with your sentiments. WT was recommended to me by way of an antidote.
What's the next project, Paul ?
Rob.
PaulR
Western Thunderer
Hi Rob,
We must thank the moderators on here for upholding a principle of supportive and helpful interaction. Respectful criticism is fine and works best when it encourages us to do better - not to creep away to lick our wounds. I think the encouragement I've received here has spurred me on significantly with my railway modelling. And there's lots of model railway eye-candy too!
I've just started on a couple of whitemetal open wagon kits, a GER 5 plank and an NBR 3 plank. I've also got an early SER wagon and a GER brake van which I want to build before moving on to another loco.
Paul
We must thank the moderators on here for upholding a principle of supportive and helpful interaction. Respectful criticism is fine and works best when it encourages us to do better - not to creep away to lick our wounds. I think the encouragement I've received here has spurred me on significantly with my railway modelling. And there's lots of model railway eye-candy too!
I've just started on a couple of whitemetal open wagon kits, a GER 5 plank and an NBR 3 plank. I've also got an early SER wagon and a GER brake van which I want to build before moving on to another loco.
Paul