In and Out Buildings - Thoughts and Research

Focalplane

Western Thunderer
After years of living in a small English cottage and traveling with suitcase at work in Africa I finally retired and during the past year we sold up in the Cotswolds and moved to Hampshire, buying a somewhat neglected but interesting 1970s bungalow with half an acre of garden and a double garage. The latter was not an attraction for modelling purposes but for cars. I already have a railway room in southern France which is a converted home cinema in a village house.

The latter location is off limits due to Covid-19 so my attention has switched to my other pastime, classic and vintage cars. The double garage is not conducive to much more than storing cars. At the moment it is cold and damp and is not well insulated, with gaps around the up and over doors. Even in summer it doesn’t get much better due to its northerly aspect and the English rain.

The good news, though, is that the rear garden has great potential complete with a driveway at the side which allows access to the old kitchen garden. The past few months have seen a lot of clearance of unpruned vegetation, moss clearing from roof and pathways and the rather pleasant experience of discovering things that we never knew existed at the time we purchased the property - it really was a jungle out there!

A large kitchen garden was designed 50 years ago, complete with tool shed, potting shed and wooden greenhouse. The greenhouse is rotting away and has become a hazard so it must go.

86DF4F8E-7270-43C5-AF24-E287AF4942B6.jpeg

The photo shows the “better side”, glass sheets are sliding off the roof on the other side.

The kitchen garden area was screened by several 6ft high trellises. These were all rotting away so have been replaced. The tool shed was rescued by the previous owner and has electricity and is dry. This will become my paint shop (most vintage cars come, or fall, apart easily so each part can be worked on separately) and will also be available for spray painting models. It has a “guaranteed” rubber coated roof. One window will have an exhaust fan installed with filter. The compressor will be located in a sound proofed cabinet with quick connect hoses, etc.

The potting shed will be for the garden equipment. Having spent many years in Texas and where Sears’ Craftsman Tools were available to mechanize every garden chore I have even convinced my wife that such equipment is a bonus to easy living.

So, there is a relatively blank canvas to work with but also a few problems to be overcome.
  1. Planning permission.
  2. There is a septic tank nearby.
  3. Energy efficiency.
  4. Good lighting.
  5. Security.
But first of all, what type of outbuilding is best suited for the job in hand? This question is relevant for railway modellers so is worthy of discussion on WT.

I have opted for solid wood walls, a.k.a. Engineered Interlocking Log Construction. This is not the quaint “hillbilly” structure from Arkansas but an accurately designed and pre manufactured kit using slow growth northern European pine. Solid wood ticks several boxes, not the least being it’s good for old cars and model railways! Brick, concrete and metals buildings all have disadvantages, mostly in that they can encourage a damp atmosphere, particularly in the damp British climate. Coupled with a flat concrete foundation, double glazing and a good fit on the garage door to reduce drafts, this is, I believe, a cost effective solution.

Planning Permission

There are many official and helpful sites on the internet to guide answering the question “do I need planning permission?” I am managing to circumvent this due to location, size of the property and most important, position of the new structure with respect to the property boundaries.

The Septic Tank

This is located near the proposed site. Nobody seems to know its precise outline but there is an inspection cover above the sludge tank and a small brick vent several meters away which is probably over the second chamber. The good news is there is a further inspection cover “down stream” that indicates the waste water flow does not appear to interfere with the garage workshop plan.

But more research is needed on this.

Energy Efficiency

The 45mm thick log walls have good thermal insulation properties and modern outbuildings generally offer double glazing. The good fit of components also insures against leaks.

Thicker walls are an option, adding to the cost of construction. Wood does engender a warm feeling due to the lower humidity compared to brick and concrete.

Good Lighting

Fluorescent lighting would be the logical choice but new LED strip lighting is, in my opinion, even better. I installed 9 units in the 7x4.5 meter railway room in France (which has no natural light having been a home cinema) and these are excellent, instant on, low energy consumption, etc. Some people find a flicker effect to be annoying so this is something to consider.

Security

Last but certainly not least, good security is essential. This would apply even more to an expensive model railway layout because it’s a lot easier to walk off with a few of our expensive scale models than a 4 meter long car! Good locks on doors and windows are essential as are security lights on infra red sensors. Silent alarms are now available connected to smart phones, complete with cameras and image recording.

To summarize, I am still in the planning stage and there will be changes and tweaks to be expected. Next, some design ideas and also some recognized pitfalls to a working solution. After all, the perfect workshop has yet to be invented! There will also be comparisons between the indoor railway room in France and the outbuilding alternative here in England

There will also be, in the WT tradition, lots of photographs!

Paul
 

simond

Western Thunderer
Paul,

this is interesting, as I am planning an extension to my garage, to provide a better, warmer, larger workshop with railway room above. Logs will not match the building structure, and I will need planning permission, but at least the septic tank is a non issue.

Why would you choose a silent alarm? Presumably any would-be thief is younger, more agile, and certainly likely to be more violent than you. You have to assume the police will not attend as an emergency. I think I’d want the loudest possible alarm, and a lot of cameras, preferably with flash guns, security lights, anything so they know they’ve been spotted, and they conclude the best option is to be anywhere else pronto.

Atb
Simon
 

adrian

Flying Squad
I think I’d want the loudest possible alarm, and a lot of cameras, preferably with flash guns, security lights, anything so they know they’ve been spotted, and they conclude the best option is to be anywhere else pronto.
and a very loud tannoy shouting "smile for the camera". :))
 

paratom

Western Thunderer
There is an article in one of the Model Railway Journal magazines about housing a layout in a purpose built garden cabin. If I can find the article I will let you know. The company the cabin came from is Dunster House and I would probably use them if I was to have a layout in the garden. Security would definitely be my priority, the last thing you want is having your layout vandalised after all those hard years of work on it. I would certainly not leave my stock in the layout room if the house was going to be empty for a while and put it somewhere safe in the house.
Tom
Dunster House - Log Cabin and Garden Building Specialists
 
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simond

Western Thunderer
and a very loud tannoy shouting "smile for the camera". :))

I remember seeing a parked so-called super car many years back. The local youth were enjoying taunting it, as it had some kind of proximity sensors, connected to a loudspeaker announcing in a very loud and very authoritarian American voice “MOVE AWAY FROM THE CAR” and other similar entreaties.

I suspect a herd of 10 year olds poking it was not the desired effect

:)
 

AJC

Western Thunderer
There is an article in one of the Model Railway Journal magazines about housing a layout in a purpose built garden cabin. If I can find the article I will let you know. The company the cabin came from is Dunster House and I would probably use them if I was to have a layout in the garden. Security would definitely be my priority, the last thing you want is having your layout vandalised after all those hard years of work on it. I would certainly not leave my stock in the layout room if the house was going to be empty for a while and put it somewhere safe in the house.
Tom
Dunster House - Log Cabin and Garden Building Specialists

We've got one of these (it came with the house) and they're quite decent, if erected properly. Ours, erm, could have been done better and we've had a few issues as a result, but the basic building is good and reasonably warm.

Adam
 

Focalplane

Western Thunderer
Yes indeed, security is becoming more important by the day. Respect for other peoples' property is on a steep downhill slide. Where we rented for 6 months last year our neighbour, a tree surgeon, had his principal ladder stolen, so a silent camera alarm was fitted. So far so good.

I certainly agree that things of value should not be left in a shed or garage while one is away. Our village house in France was chosen for its "lock up and leave" capability. There are no windows on the ground floor and the garage door has heavy bolts fitted.

Some progress has been made this morning. I have a quote from KEOPS for the log cabin structure while a company will be quoting for the foundation slab and land clearance later this week. One thought I have had for the slab is to include an inspection pit. No doubt this will be an expensive option so I will probably pass but it will be useful to know the additional cost now rather than wishing for one later.
 

adrian

Flying Squad
One thought I have had for the slab is to include an inspection pit. No doubt this will be an expensive option so I will probably pass but it will be useful to know the additional cost now rather than wishing for one later.
I think if I was in the position of kitting out a garage for our cars I'd make the slab strong enough and fit a lift rather than an inspection pit.
2 Post Car Lift Ex Demo Eurotek UT40 4 Tonne manual (Moffet delivery ) | eBay

easier to fit later as well.
 

Focalplane

Western Thunderer
So far I have approached several outbuilding companies. KEOPS has risen to the top of the heap with quick responses to my questions and a very useful web site. There is also the question of suitability to other residents on the property!

It's obvious that a basic building and foundation are only the start of a project of this nature. The wood structure will need to be preserved using recommended materials, wiring will have to be done professionally, and then the building will need to be finished out. There is quite a list to be made and I will try to address these items in the future postings.

Here is a cobbled together plan:

ManCave1.png

The window placements are incorrect and the garage door will be up and over. The large rectangle is my 1935 Riley Kestrel while a workbench and wall cabinet are also shown. Plenty of space to clutter up as well! The dimensions are space constrained and this means that so called "light cars" will be ideal. Luckily I like such vehicles, they are relatively cheap to buy and easy to work on. A good Austin 7, for example, can be had for £5,000. Rileys are a bit more expensive! And they are also a lot of fun.

A quick reply to Adrian's post: Yes a lift is a good idea as well but really needs its own space. Jay Leno's lift is in a separate building - "Come on over, let's have a look underneath!".
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
There is also the question of suitability to other residents on the property!
Very true. We made sure that there were 4" tall beams under the floor of our new workshop so that Hedgehogs could come to stay over the winter - this was an easy decision after the Hogs kept visiting the garden throughout the summer before the shed was erected. Bird boxes to be added to the gable end at some point soon.

wiring will have to be done professionally, .
Absolutely... at a cost. We asked an electrician (who is qualified to issue the certicate) to replace the consumer unit in the adjacent garage so as to provide for a separate workshop circuit and fix a new consumer unit on the workshop. Work inside the workshop included:- four LED wall units (each four feet in length), five double 13A sockets and all cables installed in trunking. Not cheap, just about £1000 inc vat for 3 days work.

regards, Graham
 
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Focalplane

Western Thunderer
In Buildings

The title of this thread includes "in Buildings" and this refers primarily to our railway room with village house in France. Such inbuildings are very popular in places like Canada where cellars provide excellent facilities for model railways (but perhaps not vintage cars!). When we viewed the French village house the particulars never even mentioned the 7m x 4.5m home cinema, but this was the clincher as far as I was concerned.

The entire ground floor is non-residential, consisting of a large garage and the home cinema. The only exterior features are a wide garage up and over metal door with extra security bolts and the front door, also metal. No windows to the front, none to the rear which faces another street. So the home cinema is dark and enclosed with no direct ventilation other than an air conditioning unit. The latter acts as a dehumidifier which seems to work well except on cardboard coach kit boxes which go mouldy (possibly because they were already mouldy when purchased?)

After returning to France after 10 months away last September I feared the worst but was pleasantly surprised. Admittedly we had the air conditioning running when French relatives stayed during and after lockdown. The Mediterranean climate certainly helps with much lower humidity for most of the year but winter can be surprisingly cold and wet at times. Trains ran perfectly on tracks before I cleaned them and even Slaters' axles hadn't oxidized!

The same applied to tools in the garage, again due to the lack of humidity. At the time of writing this post even our French relatives cannot visit which is all very frustrating but that's life in 2021. I continue to keep fingers crossed.
 

Mike Garwood

Western Thunderer
The placement of your security cameras is something you may want to give some thought to. Most oiks will be head covered and head down so having a camera at head height will be a complete waste of time. Better lower, looking up at the door from the inside, preferably hidden. The assumption being that they have already gained access. Cameras - in themselves - do not offer a deterrant. But do not forget to advertise that you have CCTV in place or any recorded images will be for your eyes only.

On a personal note - when I build my shed - the thought of an electrical current going through the door handle has always appealed to me. ;)

Mike
 

Osgood

Western Thunderer
The KEOPS website inspires a high level of confidence.

As an incentive to anyone looking at this type of building to see some installed examples of the supplier’s work before buying:

My neighbour put up a large unit for commercial use (not from KEOPS - from the other end of the market!) and some 12 months later huge gaps appeared around horizontal joints and vertical panel ends due to excessive shrinkage (of presumably inadequately dried timber).
A right mess, resolved with 100x100x8 angle iron and more.
The company had just packed up but one of their former employees kindly offered to help with a scheme to rectify it.

My neighbour was quite philosophical about it, acknowledging that you get what you pay for.
 

Focalplane

Western Thunderer
Col, when we lived in Texas we had three hand guns for protection, both at home and on the road. Beretta 9mm semi, .357 Magnum and a five chamber revolver Ex- Constable modified. Never used them when at home but when camping in West Texas it felt good to have one in the tent! Even the Park Rangers agreed! After an attempted robbery in Houston early on the cop said “Do you have a gun?” “No, Officer, we just arrived from Singapore where guns are illegal.” Stunned silence followed by “Well, git one and larn how to use it!”

Had to sell them when we left. As someone famously said, guns don’t kill unless someone pulls the trigger.
 
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Focalplane

Western Thunderer
Moving along, the foundation company showed up this evening to look at the site. Some "over engineering" suggested but I do like the "Forth Bridge" concept. I mentioned that I might tile the floor, he then suggested rubber matting and will send me the product name. I must say I like the suggestion, much easier on one's joints and delicate items might not break when dropped!
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
We have a "rubber/plastic" mat in our workshop... sold by Costco for use in industrial workplaces. The roll is about 5M x 3M so did our floor in one piece. Price was £135 about 12 months back.
 

Kev T

Western Thunderer
12months ago I fitted a 6mx4m Tuin log cabin in the back garden for my railway room, in Hampshire also. It has 44mm logs and went together really easily. This cold snap has shown up the lack of insulation. I fitted one inch roof insulation and have just retrofitted a floor with 1" insulation. This week I've needed 3kW of heat to keep the temperature something like.

Regarding planning permission, it seems you've looked at the regs. regarding height and distance from boundaries. There is also one about the max size, iirc 36sqM.
My plan will be to expand the railway into what will be the garden when I've managed to tame it. Mine is a bit smaller than yours at about 500sqyds.

Kev
 

Focalplane

Western Thunderer
Kev

I didn’t want to list the planning permission regs because they can change in time and so could mislead people down the road. Caveat Emptor comes to mind, each should do his/her own research and if in doubt consult the local authorities.

Insulation is one part of the problem, but humidity year round is a bigger one in the UK. The good news for me is that this current cold spell won’t last very long. But I did top up the Kestrel’s radiator yesterday morning with extra antifreeze!
 
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