Lightening the load

[Peter Insole]

I apologise for the brief interlude, but having reached a point, I found myself up against an impenetrable wall! Knowing exactly where I want to go with it, but with absolutely no idea how to get there.

Meanwhile, three out of four swims came out nicely identical and aligned with the master, but one proved to be a bit wilfully wonky - probably the last done rather late in the evening?!



After a taking an age to work out exactly what was pulling the assembly out of shape and then taking a chance with a bit of brutal surgery, breaking several bits and resetting under weights eventually sorted it!

I had also cut four sturdy halves for the two, fore swim "gunwales"...



... with only a far too vague notion of what comes next...

This is where it has all come to a stop! Every idea considered so far seem to present peculiar problems, and I just cannot make my mind up!

The main issue is that the decks were covered with steel plates, plainly stepped (without joggles) over the beams, and I particularly want to represent that very distinct feature. Despite the sheets being relatively thin, they clearly did not receive anything like the punishment that all the other platewok did, so tended to remain fairly flat! Overlapping 0.10mm plastic sheet should give the right appearance, but be an absolute nightmare to prevent any sagging between the frames - and the things ending up looking more like biplane wings?! Building up a more solid substructure risks unevenly trapped adhesive showing through and potentially distorting the surface - among other difficulties!

I will find a way - in the end?

Perhaps having a jolly good clear up might help clear my head at the same time ?!

Pete.

 

[michael mott]

Just a thought, what about laminating a couple of sheets of the .010 sheet such that there is a rebate all around the edge so that they sit flat with the little edges over the frames.

Michael

 

[oldravendale]

I hesitate to comment in such esteemed company, but I will!

As I read this last posting, Peter, I was thinking about the possibility of laminating sheets as Michael proposes above. The refinement I'd consider is using contact adhesive rather than whichever flavour of plastic cement you've been using so far. I think the issues of trapped fumes etc will be minimised.

But, of course, I may be wrong. Or at least not right.

Brian

 

[Peter Insole]

Thank you for the tip Michael. Yes indeed, I can see that would be the best move if I go down the conventional framing up route.

I am sorry if I have misunderstood your reply, but I still see the problem of a potential "sag" between the transverse deck beams - something notably absent in the two reference photo's that I took a while ago at Maldon.



In those views, even when fully enlarged, the only way any of the transverse deck beams can be discerned is by searching for faint traces of the flush rivet heads under the layers of paint - quite unlike the vertical hull plating, a small portion of which can be seen in the lower shot!

Apart from the plate joint "steps", and some "nibbled" edges at the gunwales, the decks are otherwise surprisingly smooth and even!

Pete.

 

[Heather Kay]

Would cutting the hatch openings let fumes vent?

 

[Peter Insole]

Thanks Brian as well! You are absolutely right! A contact adhesive would indeed be infinitely preferable, as it would avoid the cratered mess that happens whenever thin sheets of plastic are laminated with solvents. My only concern is that the plates are longitudinal, and will have to be curved -albeit shallow - crosswise, so I fear the risk that a contact adhesive might not hold as securely as solvent welding does, and end up springing back up in places along the fine joint edges?!

I am still reluctant to even try laminating, but the germ of an idea is forming... so some experimentation is called for.

Unfortunately for my wife, I hadn't even got started on the grand clear up !!

Pete.

 

[Peter Insole]

Thanks Heather! Fume build up in the void of the peaks will certainly be a problem when all the plating is finally closed up. Open(ing?) hatches are a "must do" then..!!

Pete.

 

[SimonT]

Pete,
follow the techniques of Gordon Gravett? He laminates plastic sheet with super glues. There was an MRJ article on it in the past.
Simon

 

[Dog Star]

Pete, follow the techniques of Gordon Gravett? He laminates plastic sheet with super glues. There was an MRJ article on it in the past.

I think that Simon is referring to this issue:-

Working with Alternative Plastics, Issue 140, p.27, 2003.

Note that Gordon was using ABS with superglue... ABS absorbs water and hence makes a decent bond with CA glues. Superglues do not work well with HIPS (styrene), laminating styrene with CA can delaminate.

 

[Osgood]

Enough of this mono-material talk - is there a reliable method of gluing an aluminium foil skin to your plastic skeleton?

If so, there is a good choice of thicknesses in the form of catering rays / dishes that could be easily cut and trimmed to size and which could be worked upon to produce the bowed side skin / smooth deck plating of the originals.

 

[simond]

I reckon evostik style contacts would work well with ally and plasticard.

I think laminated plasticard would be ok, if done before sticking to the structure.

worth trying both before committing to a potential visit from the good Captain…

 

[AJC]

Looking at the problem, and being hugely impressed with the framing, I think I’d have done the end decks as thick slabs of 2mm sheet and laminated the decking sheets on top of that, probably with a gel superglue (for speed). Yes that works better with ABS but is fine in my experience with styrene and ideal for this sort of application. Yes, this is an ugly compromise but I can make buildings like this work reliably!

Adam

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Enough of this mono-material talk - is there a reliable method of gluing an aluminium foil skin to your plastic skeleton?

If so, there is a good choice of thicknesses in the form of catering rays / dishes that could be easily cut and trimmed to size and which could be worked upon to produce the bowed side skin / smooth deck plating of the originals.

Contact adhesive I reckon, Tony.
There is aluminium tape available from builders merchants/DIY stores but I don't know what the adhesive on the back of it is and how that would affect plastic.

Col.

 

[Osgood]

Now, I have a roll of that -commonly used to seal joints on foil-covered PIR foam board.
It is very thin (and very sticky), and could have some potential in modelling applications.

Ideal solution would be if a Thames-side curry house were to commission food containers in the style of a 1/43 Lighter.......

 

[Peter Insole]

Thanks to all for your replies, and I really appreciate everyone sharing your experience and providing some fresh ideas for a floundering fellow!

Worrying is unfortunately part of my nature, sometimes to a complete standstill. Thanks again, I feel a bit more confident now!

Pete.

 

[Pencarrow]

Hi Pete,

I think I would tackle the problem by making a structural top deck out of 20thou plasticard using standard MEK. I would then laminate 10thou plasticard over that (lapping as required) but use Limonene solvent instead. It's much gentler, doesn't evaporate as quick (so you have more working time) and smells of lemons.

I used Limonene on the 5thou and 10thou plasticard roof slates attached to the Pencarrow grain store and had no solvent melting issues.

Hobby Holidays product details

 

[Peter Insole]

Ah, now that looks like just the ticket Chris, you're a champion, thank you! I will definitely be putting in an order for some of that!

Pete.

 

[Pencarrow]

Ah, now that looks like just the ticket Chris, you're a champion, thank you! I will definitely be putting in an order for some of that!

Pete.

Should do the job Pete. It's not great for building up structures as it doesn't have the instant grab of MEK but it's another tool in the armoury.

 

[simond]

I wondered, so I went and looked. Never used the stuff, but will certainly get some.

Limonene - Wikipedia

If you need lots, litre quantities available on line for under £20.

Atb
Simon

 

[Pencarrow]

I wondered, so I went and looked. Never used the stuff, but will certainly get some.

Limonene - Wikipedia

If you need lots, litre quantities available on line for under £20.

Atb
Simon

I think there's different grades though Simon. There seems to be thin stuff used for cleaning. The stuff I have for modelling is quite thick and can be quite sticky if you get it on your hands.