Mike G's Workspace.

Discussion in 'Workbenches, including workshop techniques.' started by Mike Garwood, 28 May 2020.

  1. Mike Garwood

    Mike Garwood Western Thunderer

    So a quick date on the coach, bogies built and the coach is running away in a small breeze, Mr Bedfords best. It's in it's box awaiting some nice weather to paint and line out.
    In the meantime I've opened the etches to the 3P. Love the look of new etches, there are many pieces that require rivets being pressed out. I have the correct tool for this, so this isn't a problem. But having never done so many in one piece of work, is it better to do this while the etches are in their border (if you know what I mean) or is it better to take them out of the borders?
    First thing will be the chassis and associated valve gear, if I can't get that to run smoothly, then it'll be pointless in finishing it. Gearbox will be High level, wheels are Ultrascale but I can't decide on a motor. I have a left over Mashima 1624 - which was destined for a Black 5 - and I have some motors I purchased from Cambridge Custom Transfers. Or I could just buy one of the new motors from High level.
    The other slight problem is the spacers that go between the chassis are only 14.2 mm wide, I think this is a bit narrow for a P4 engine, as it'll mean quite a few washers to take up the slack on the wheels. The NS etches are made from 0.4 mm so that gives 15 mm over the complete width of the chassis. Something to ponder.

    Any advice appreciated on these choices.

    Stay safe

    Mike
     
  2. Mike Garwood

    Mike Garwood Western Thunderer

    Having ummed and arred over the chassis width of the 3P, I've decided to have etched some proper width spacers. This will mean the distance over the width of the chassis will be 16 mm. These won't be available till spring and thank you Justin for putting them into your order. So, what next...not a difficult choice really, from my shelf of shame I give you the GWR 42xx. Hornby body going on a Brassmasters chassis, High level g/box and Gibson wheels. So this should be a good space filler whilst waiting for the etches to arrive and hopefully by then, the weather will have improved and some spraying can start.
    The 42xx's were quite prominent with freight - usually coal - over my choosen area. They all looked completely unloved, but were absolute beasts as engines. This should be interesting!

    Stay safe

    Mike
     
  3. NewportRod

    NewportRod Western Thunderer

    Good choice, one of the joys of getting the gauge right is the correct relationship of frames and wheels.
    R
     
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  4. Mike Garwood

    Mike Garwood Western Thunderer

    Happy Christmas to all! Many thanks to the mods for all their hard work.

    Here’s to a safer 2021!

    Mike
     
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  5. Mike Garwood

    Mike Garwood Western Thunderer

    Christmas is out of the way and I don't do New year, back to the project in hand.

    GWR 42xx, Brass masters sprung chassis and High Level gear box. I know what your thinking...this was designed to add to the existing Hornby block chassis and you'd be right. I tend to do things a little differently, there is no chassis for a 42xx, except this one. I don't like conversions, I think they're a half way house and you don't get the benefit of a better drive system. I am going to have to make modificiations to the chassis, but not as much as you might think.
    I've folded up both the main chassis and the keeper plate. I've placed the gearbox on top of the chassis and marked out what needs to be cut out to make it fit. It'll be driven on the third axle.

    GWR 42xx 1.jpg

    I've also removed all the handrails and stuff from the body ready to refit it all.

    GWR 42xx.jpg

    The footplate is a preverbial banana and is going to take some sorting out. I think some well placed L angle glued in place should sort this out. I have to say it's nice to be back at the bench. The ride height and where the chassis will be connected to the body are some more problems to be overcome.

    Stay safe

    Mike
     
  6. Dave Holt

    Dave Holt Western Thunderer

    Mike,
    I'll watch your progress with interest - not because it's a 42XX but because I share your reservations about adding a sprung overlay chassis to a rigid chassis block and fixed drive train, relying on the rather course final drive spur gears to allow suspension movement. I've got one of the Bachmann Ivatt Class 4, 2-6-0's, to do, sometime.
    Good luck with it and Happy New Year.
    Dave.
     
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  7. Jeremy Good

    Jeremy Good Active Member

    Mike,

    I’m also looking forward to seeing this progress having failed to get the EasiChas to work properly. Part of the issue was using a set of P4 Ultrascale wheels I had in stock with 1/8” axles which meant I needed to open out the final drive gear and partly as I just couldn’t get the clearances right on the other axles. I did get hold of a Worsley Works etch but have decided to revert to the EasiChas and convert it in a similar way to your proposals.

    Good luck!

    Jeremy
     
  8. Mike Garwood

    Mike Garwood Western Thunderer

    Jeremy

    I looked at what Worsley offered, infact a good friend of mine has nearly finished the engine. But, the height of the half etched rivets was completely wrong. I know that sounds really silly, but when you ran your finger over them, you could feel them tugging at your skin. Far to big and really spoilt the look of the engine. I didn't realise they sold just the chassis.

    So, todays progress...the slitting has been completed on the chassis and the keeper plate. I've built the gearbox and got it running, I'm pleased to say that I got the dimensions right and it all fits in the body and chassis. Now when I bought the gearbox Chris offered me one of the new motors that now appears on his site. I declined, as I'd bought 3 motors from CCT. John Isherwood has noted how smooth and quiet these motors are when combined with the HL gearboxes and after today I have to agree. I ran the gearbox and motor in for a couple of hours - quiet, turned on the lowest setting on my controller, very impressive. Also, no heat from the motor at all. Not always the case with the Mashimas. The only thing I don't like about these motors is that they mount on an angle to the gearbox. But, frankly, with the performance I experienced today, I'm quite willing to over look this.

    I've also fitted the chimney, it's not perfect, but I don't know of anyone who does a proper one. And I don't know how much it would cost to get someone to cut one on a lathe. I don't have a lathe nor the skill to do that.

    Stay safe

    Mike
     
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  9. Mike Garwood

    Mike Garwood Western Thunderer

    It's been a very frustrating week. The lack of available spares from Hornby or any third party distributor is very disappointing. Can't get crossheads or G hangers or even connecting rods. So, I've had to improvise, I will draw up and get what's needed etched. This will also include a front pony with proper bearings for the axle to ride in. I can't stand the idea of the steel axles screeching away in brass gaps. I have a protemp solution to that as well.
    Can't find sand boxes of the right design either, so I've drawn these out on paper to make out of plastic card.
    The basic chassis has been made up and all the nice additions in the Brassmasters detailing kit have been added, I haven't made the brakes up yet as there seems to be a few designs that were used on these engines. This engine will be numbered 5214 and I have a photo of her plodding away on the Hengoed line. Quite a few differneces on the picture to the Hornby model all of which will be included.

    The first dilema was the crossheads and the slide bars. I managed to get a set of cylinders and slide bars from Peters spares for the 42xx. And fair play they are spot on. The slide bars on the 42 are spindly affairs to say the least. Years ago I etched some crossheads to fit Comet double slide bars, the problem being that the width on the Hornby spare slide bar was scale, so there was no way these etched jobs would fit. The solution was to solder on a wider section of small steel bar to account for the difference in width and the file to shape. These won't stay with the model, but will do untill I get the drawing off to PPD and can replace them.

    GWR 42 crossheads and slide bars.jpg

    GWR 42 chassis detail.jpg

    The slippers move easily in the slide bars.

    The body has had some attention as well, the rear has had the etched detail added as well. I'm not the greatest at bending stuff up to fit - especially if it has curves. I've also removed all the handrails. It still needs front steps - which I happen to have had in another kit, which I've also knicked the G hangers from as well.
    The next step will be to get the pony finished. This is a Comet part which I'll modify to get some bearings to fit and then spring them. there will also be a steering wire going back to the chassis so that the front wheels actually lead the engine.

    GWR 42 back view.jpg

    There are a lot more parts on the Brassmasters fret, but no mention of them in the instructions. Having said that this detailing kit is for the 72xx as well. Lots more to do.

    Stay safe

    Mike
     
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  10. Jeremy Good

    Jeremy Good Active Member

    Mike

    Brassmasters do a set of connecting rods (ref C402) but it isn't included in the EasiChas kit. They were also promising a pony truck for this loco but that hasn't arrived yet - maybe the chassis for the new Hornby 61XX or Dapol 43XX will be the catalyst for that to arrive.

    In the past I've sourced spares for this loco from Peters Spares via their on-line shop.

    Jeremy
     
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  11. john lewsey

    john lewsey Western Thunderer

    Nice work Mike
    Very interesting read
    John
     
  12. PeteT

    PeteT New Member

    The Brassmasters pony truck is out for a test etch this month, according to the blog:

    Blog
     
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  13. Mike Garwood

    Mike Garwood Western Thunderer

    Pete
    I bet this will go the sameway as the Duchess. In fact as I've read the blog, the Duchess isn't mentioned thru out any of the 2020 postings. Still something to wait for - again.

    BTW
    I've been messing around with the Comet pony. The HL space saver 2mm bearings fit really nicely between the uprights within the etch. Hardly any lateral movement at all - certainly nothing I'm going to worry about. Tomorrow I'll ring Chris and get some ordered as the ones I have are for a separate project.
    Thanks for the heads up on the BM pony.

    Stay safe

    Mike
     
    Last edited: 10 January 2021
  14. Mike Garwood

    Mike Garwood Western Thunderer

    This week has seen more progress. Bearings have been fettled (and numbered) to fit the chassis. Thankfully gravity allows them to fall out, without any lateral movement in the sides of the chassis. I also finished the brake pull rods, but that was just a case of overlays with some brass wire to represent the nuts.

    GWR 42 body.jpg

    I found the reason for the banana shaped footplate... the two halves didn't mate properly. There is a nut like thing sunk into the footplate and this was pushing the body up, creating a bend. Hopefully the superglue I've used will sort that - hence the rubber band.

    GWR 42 body 2.jpg

    So I've added a pile of valve flanges to various bits and also put realistic lifting rings in as well. But, you've gotta love Mike Clarkes lamp irons. Finger blistering at it's finest. I've been putting it off but brakes and rods are for next week and hopefully get the Gibson wheels sorted and blackened as well. I'm 2 minds whether to replace the buffers. The samples on the Hornby body aren't sprung, but I do wonder about effort that goes into making these, installing etc..are they really worth the effort?

    Stay safe.

    Mike
     
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  15. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    Very nice Mike - I agree about Mike Clarke's lamp irons, well worth the effort. I wouldn't bother with the buffers myself as I don't suppose you're going to be trying to squeeze a bruiser like this round sub-4' curves and using slightly longer than scale wagon couplings as most of us do probably resolves any potential issues.

    Adam
     
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  16. Mike Garwood

    Mike Garwood Western Thunderer

    Isn't it a pain when things go wrong or get in the way? I haven't been very busy with this project as I should have been. Two major reasons :

    1. My lovely daughter gave birth to our grandson, a week ago - Harry William Michael, 7 lb 14. Both doing really well.
    2. Some fool decided to re-hire me for more security work and have been trying to sort the logistics and appropriate certs out. So hopefully tomorrow or Thursday I'll be earning a crust again.

    The work can't have come at a better time, as I was starting to hate being home. I've really enjoyed the last 12 months modelling, but you really CAN have too much of a good thing.

    Anyway, I've started to weight the beast and with a sprung chassis, this is nothing to be rushed at. So far the smoke box and coal bunker balance each other out and as you can see from the picture there's more lead strip to be added - this time - to the sides, both strips weigh the same.
    Cosmeticaly, I've added the steam pipes down to the cylinders. When I built the Mitchell 45xx this took ages to get right, this time it bearely took an hour. So 5214 starts to look like an engine, not just a thrown together bunch of parts. I've also done the working couplings, again using the masokits brand.

    GWR 42xx 2.jpg

    The etches to the right bottom of the pic are the vaccum rods to be built. I've found the coupling rod instructions on the CD (that comes with this kit) and now it all starts to make sense. If it's all in words I don't stand a chance of it going together correctly. Give me a diagram and I'm off and running. It's been slow progress, but the beginning of the end is now coming into view.

    Stay safe

    Mike
     
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  17. Mike Garwood

    Mike Garwood Western Thunderer

    I've finished weighting the loco and that comes in at 250 gms. I could cram more in, but right now this balences. So, I think I'll play it safe and leave be. Also, finished the connecting rods and added the usual gubbings to the buffer beams.

    GWR 42xx 3.jpg

    And yes, I'm still putting off building the coupling rods!

    Stay Safe

    Mike
     
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  18. Dave Holt

    Dave Holt Western Thunderer

    Go on, Mike, you know you want to do them really. Anyway, I can't have anyone rivaling my "Putter-offerer" world champion status.:D
    Dave.
     
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  19. Mike Garwood

    Mike Garwood Western Thunderer

    Bit of down time today - so the coupling rods got put together. Just need to get them on the jig with the chassis to make sure they all match. There's no reason they shouldn't, but I like belt and braces approach to chassis construction.

    GWR 42xx rods.jpg

    They also need tidying up and some lubrication.

    Stay safe

    Mike
     
  20. Mike Garwood

    Mike Garwood Western Thunderer

    I'm nearing the point now where the wheels should go onto their axles. But, my thoughts have strayed to the pony at the front of my engine. The chassis will be sprung, so the pony really should be as well. How? I've been playing around with this idea. I have an old etch from Comet for a GWR pony frame, I also happen to have some bearings / hornblocks that have been lying in my spares box for years. But I do know where they came from should this be successful. It is by shear luck - rather than design - that these sit so comfortably and without stickiness between the cheeks.

    GWR 42xx pony frame idea.jpg

    As you can see the 3mm (close as dammit) hornblock fits rather neatly between the cheeks of the frame. The sides will fold over to trap the hornblock on the inside and some phos bronze 0.4mm wire will be used as a spring and to hold the hornblock in place. Now whether this thickness of wire is man enough for the job is yet to be seen. I think I'm going to have to put some sort of rubbing plate (which will locate and be stuck to the front part of the footplate) to get the wheels to sit centrally (mid point) in the pony and take advantage of the springing. Ideally I need to work out how this is going to lead the first driver and chassis into a bend as well.

    GWR 42xx pony frame.jpg

    This is the completed version so far. The bad news is Comet no longer produce this style of pony. Gibson front wheels are quiet chunky as they have a boss front and back. But that will still leave 0.9 mm either side of the pony for unbridled side play - a fair bit then! That'll have to be plugged with washers. So, another item that would have to be re-drawn should I need another one.
    I have also added the pick up strip to the chassis, due the nature of the design of the chassis, the way I would put pick ups on the chassis cannot be fitted. So this is the method BrassMasters suggest.

    GWR 42xx pick ups.jpg

    This does cause a slight problem once this goes into the body...the sides are lined with lead. So I shall have to glue some thin plastic to the lead to stop any shorting. Just another job to the list.
    This is what the body and chassi now look like :

    GWR 42xx chassis in body.jpg

    The other problem - yet to be looked at - is how to retain the steam chests without them falling out! Todays progress will be blackening the wheels and getting them prepared for quartering. The end is now a glimmer in the distance, rather than a thought.

    Stay safe

    Mike