Magazine New Magazine - genuine this time!!!

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
... there is no difference so why create one by labelling it as S7?
Being present at the time of introduction, the "S7" prefix was "presented" by Cynric to one of my topics and done without any prior intimation.

I am quite happy to drop S7, as against 7mm or 31.5mm or G0G, from my topic titles.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Personally I keep on looking at the S7 tag and wondering what is it all about, 2 mm difference in a gauge, discussions always, always come back to take some off the front of the wheel some off the back a bit off the boss, make your own frame spacers, moan about the quality of the castings. If the kits are not what you want why buy them surely you could get together and make kits that don't require all of the skilled cutting of a surgeon.

There's quite a few of us S7 modellers who feel the same. I haven't turned a lathe in anger in any of my S7 modelling yet, and I have been at it over twenty years! I'm happy to bodge with the best of us! and I hopefully learn to be a better bodger with each model I make. ;)

As to the quality of kits, that affects all 7mm modellers, who are not backward in coming forward about such inadequacies in various forums and magazines. If I had the time, skills and inclination to design my own kits, I would be doing it. As I don't, I complain if I think it'll make things better - for everyone who might purchase the kit.

Those who choose to model using S7 standards are not some odd species. Do you feel the same about S4/P4, or those who work at exact 2mm scale? I'm going to shut up now. I'm not making things better.

NURSE! The screens!
 

Dan Randall

Western Thunderer
almost all of the S7 posts are extremely repetitive and say the same things.

In that case, I shall endeavour to add a S7 label to my posts as soon as I can find out how to. That way, you'll be able to avoid them, though you'll be missing out on some BR blue.... :oops:


Getting back on topic, I have taken out a subscription to the magazine that has somehow divided the happy place that used to be WT and am awaiting a visit from the Postie.:thumbs:


Regards

Dan
 

Osgood

Western Thunderer
Well really. If it is nothing to do with friendship, sharing ideas and projects and successes and failures, but all about tags, then I'm going to bin my new suit and my newly acquired go / no go gauges -

Scale7man.jpg


…and take up coarse scale centre contact. That way I can legitimately use the following TAG for all my posts :)


Screen Shot 2014-09-29 at 09.06.07.png

More coffee, anyone?
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
I have to say I am finding this quite ridiculous. To try to hive off every sub-section into a dead-end siding of its own so ne'er the twain shall meet diminishes them all.

At the root of it, we are playing trains, and modelling to the standards we wish to. I don't think it is open to anyone to criticise the standards anyone else is modelling to, whether that is perceived as more accurate or less accurate than one's own.

And what will we be left with if we all go our separate ways? Bu**er all, that's what.

G1MRA and the GOG have both demonstrated that it doesn't work if you are not totally inclusive.

It's not S7, finescale, 31.5mm; it's 7mm scale modelling - and some of the best is here.

It's not P4, S4, EM, OO gauge; it's 4mm scale modelling, and so on.

We can all learn from tips, techniques, kit reviews in all scales. To pretend otherwise is nonsense.

If something doesn't interest you, ignore it - that's the nature of forums. For sure others will find it of relevance.

So, let's be inclusive and welcoming to all, and resume our happy fellowship.

Richard
 

Dan Randall

Western Thunderer
Well really. If it is nothing to do with friendship, sharing ideas and projects and successes and failures, but all about tags, then I'm going to bin my new suit and my newly acquired go / no go gauges -

View attachment 36410


…and take up coarse scale third rail contact. That way I can legitimately use the following TAG for all my posts :)


View attachment 36411

More coffee, anyone?

It took me a couple of minutes to notice the subtle change to Superman's costume - excellent. :))


Regards

Dan
 

TheSnapper

Western Thunderer
Why has this thread about a New Magazine morphed into something that threatens to become potentially damaging?. Surely this forum is mature enough to withstand a bit of “trouble at ‘mill”

It’s thanks to Phill and his colleagues that WT survived after Cynric’s untimely passing, and it’s quite reasonable that he would want to quit the admin role, for whatever reason. And if Phill doesn’t want to post his work on here, that’s his decision too. I for one will be disappointed though; it was he who recruited me at the Halifax show in 2010.

Personally speaking, I would hate to subscribe to a very narrow interest / single scale forum. Part of what makes WT so interesting, is its diversity. Long may it continue.

Tim
 

Buckjumper

Flying Squad
I think it's appropriate that both the on-topic and the introspective off-topic discussion are on the same thread.

First of all, on-topic, my copy of FRMR arrived within 24 hours or ordering, and although I've only skim-read it so far, I think it fills a gap in the market and is complimentary to it's predecessor, rather than in competition with it . Like MRJ it's both inspirational and aspirational, but shows that you don't need a workshop full of machine tools to achieve stunning results; cereal packets and fag ash will do - which really brings MRJ and Bob Barlow full circle with scenery and structures on the ESLR joint venture with Ricey back in the early 80s.

OT, I'm both surprised and, I suppose, not surprised that tin hats are on; soldering irons at dawn and all that. Unfortunately there's often a kind of friction between engineering and impressionistic sides of the hobby, but here on WT there's a perfect cauldron where both paths meet and I don't get why it causes so much angst when instead it could be used to advantage by inspiring each other.

Of course we can all be a bit partisan at times which can lead to some good-humoured ribbing; blue vs green, steam vs D&E, GWR vs LNER, S132 vs GIMRA, 0F vs S7...but how did we get from there to the cries of elitism (or inverse elitism)?

Yes my own modelling is in S7 (though the chance to build some would be a fine thing), but most of the stuff I post on here, apart from the SBB, are 0F commissions, and besides which, my own S7 exploits are definitely on the arty impressionistic side of things. I'm not an engineer by a very long shot, and there are many disgustingly talented 0F modellers whose engineering eclipses my efforts by the order of several magnitudes.

Surely modelling is modelling is modelling, whether it's N, 2mm, TT, 3mm, 00, EM, P4/S4, S, 0F, S7, 10mm, 1/32, S132, G3 and everything in between. As long as we enjoy what we do, and, hopefully, with posts and photos, others take enjoyment from seeing what we do, that's all there is to it?

Who cares about the semantics of a mm difference in track gauge? If the challenge of prototypical rail/wheel standards takes your fancy then go for it, if it doesn't then don't - just don't get your knickers in a twist either way for those who do or those who don't.

For me WT is like the digital version of FRMR and MRJ all rolled into one; there's the high-end, mad as a box of frogs machine tool stuff in all scales with creation Peter Carl Fabergé would have drooled over, and then there's the 'here's wot I dun with a cereal packet, some plastikard and a slap of paint' which exudes all the atmosphere of a Cuneo, all existing side by side, with most of us somewhere on the spectrum between the two. Why denigrate one when we can appreciate all?

What has WT done for me? It's made me appreciate and become slightly nostalgic for the corporate blue era I grew up with and hated with a vengeance at the time, and Phill's garden railway has played a big part in that unravelling.

Internet forums are not a constant, and won't stand still. Unless you start off and continue with a closed group there's always going to be change (and even in a closed group it's not guaranteed) - it's the nature of the beast. WT has changed, just as RMW changed before it, and WT will continue to change.

Final thought; weren't the thread labels introduced because although Cynric provided us with a lovely forum with all these partitioned sections, it became a bit of a free-for-all with threads started in all manner of inappropriate places, so they simply bring a little bit of sanity to the mêlée?
 

Gerry

Member
I think it's appropriate that both the on-topic and the introspective off-topic discussion are on the same thread.

First of all, on-topic, my copy of FRMR arrived within 24 hours or ordering, and although I've only skim-read it so far, I think it fills a gap in the market and is complimentary to it's predecessor, rather than in competition with it . Like MRJ it's both inspirational and aspirational, but shows that you don't need a workshop full of machine tools to achieve stunning results; cereal packets and fag ash will do - which really brings MRJ and Bob Barlow full circle with scenery and structures on the ESLR joint venture with Ricey back in the early 80s.

OT, I'm both surprised and, I suppose, not surprised that tin hats are on; soldering irons at dawn and all that. Unfortunately there's often a kind of friction between engineering and impressionistic sides of the hobby, but here on WT there's a perfect cauldron where both paths meet and I don't get why it causes so much angst when instead it could be used to advantage by inspiring each other.

Of course we can all be a bit partisan at times which can lead to some good-humoured ribbing; blue vs green, steam vs D&E, GWR vs LNER, S132 vs GIMRA, 0F vs S7...but how did we get from there to the cries of elitism (or inverse elitism)?

Yes my own modelling is in S7 (though the chance to build some would be a fine thing), but most of the stuff I post on here, apart from the SBB, are 0F commissions, and besides which, my own S7 exploits are definitely on the arty impressionistic side of things. I'm not an engineer by a very long shot, and there are many disgustingly talented 0F modellers whose engineering eclipses my efforts by the order of several magnitudes.

Surely modelling is modelling is modelling, whether it's N, 2mm, TT, 3mm, 00, EM, P4/S4, S, 0F, S7, 10mm, 1/32, S132, G3 and everything in between. As long as we enjoy what we do, and, hopefully, with posts and photos, others take enjoyment from seeing what we do, that's all there is to it?

Who cares about the semantics of a mm difference in track gauge? If the challenge of prototypical rail/wheel standards takes your fancy then go for it, if it doesn't then don't - just don't get your knickers in a twist either way for those who do or those who don't.

For me WT is like the digital version of FRMR and MRJ all rolled into one; there's the high-end, mad as a box of frogs machine tool stuff in all scales with creation Peter Carl Fabergé would have drooled over, and then there's the 'here's wot I dun with a cereal packet, some plastikard and a slap of paint' which exudes all the atmosphere of a Cuneo, all existing side by side, with most of us somewhere on the spectrum between the two. Why denigrate one when we can appreciate all?

What has WT done for me? It's made me appreciate and become slightly nostalgic for the corporate blue era I grew up with and hated with a vengeance at the time, and Phill's garden railway has played a big part in that unravelling.

Internet forums are not a constant, and won't stand still. Unless you start off and continue with a closed group there's always going to be change (and even in a closed group it's not guaranteed) - it's the nature of the beast. WT has changed, just as RMW changed before it, and WT will continue to change.

Final thought; weren't the thread labels introduced because although Cynric provided us with a lovely forum with all these partitioned sections, it became a bit of a free-for-all with threads started in all manner of inappropriate places, so they simply bring a little bit of sanity to the mêlée?
 

Gerry

Member

By using the word predecessor you are suggesting that MRJ is no more. I can assure you that nothing could be further from the truth and it is unlikely to be for some considerable time yet!

Amidst all the froth don't make the mistake of writing it off!

Gerry
 

iploffy

OC Blue Brigade
Personally I preferred the BB we knew how to have laugh and didn't take ourselves seriously at all.just good fun. I had my avatar changed by the Guv for a laugh to see how long it took for me to spot it. Not a dry eye in the place and the amount of fun was absolutely brilliant. I can't say the same after we were told to calm it down, no banter left on the site. Just reference material and construction of stock. Who's got moving pictures of their layout to post on here, we see plenty of stills but how about something moving. Please change my perception that all S7 models don't move they are just engineered, accurate, well built ornaments that get talked about alot. Please, please, please put something that captures my imagination and that of others that could even be an S7 locomotive running down a piece.of S7 track.
I have not been able to run my layout this year, but I also have not seen many moving pictures that show the gracefully accurate models moving. Loads of talk but very little actual action ie a wheel turning being powered by a motor. I am not going to reply to this as I am beginning to feel quite passionate and I have said all I want to say. Please feel free to criticise me all you want, I am not Intending this to get at anyone all I and others want is a balance between building and moving things. Post some moving pictures of the S7 layouts please.
 

Buckjumper

Flying Squad
By using the word predecessor you are suggesting that MRJ is no more.

I've not suggested anything of the sort.

I can assure you that nothing could be further from the truth and it is unlikely to be for some considerable time yet!

Fantastic news Gerry, MRJ is, and has for a long time been my favourite magazine :thumbs:

Amidst all the froth don't make the mistake of writing it off!

I neither frothed and nor did I write MRJ off. Please re-read without the red mist and you'll find I compared MRJ and FRMR very favourably, and in fact called them complimentary - whether that goes down well in either Cambridge or Oxford, well that's between the two parties concerned, but as a punter and potential contributor, that's how it seems to me.

Edit: bad grammar wot I dun.
 

Simon

Flying Squad
When I said
In other words, there is no difference so why create one by labelling it as S7?

What I didn't mean was that S7 topics shouldn't be labelled S7, of course they should.

I was quite possibly influenced by this thread when I made that comment, but what I'm getting at is that good modelling, smooth running, consistent standards are really not the sole preserve of S7 (or S4 or ScaleOne32 etc)

S7 is a set of standards, not a modelling philosophy, and there are times (honestly chaps) when it appears that some of those involved think otherwise. The same could, has, and will be said of P4 modellers. And ScaleOne32 modellers:oops:

Conversely, and to be fair, I guess that given that WT is "large scale-ish" and prone to "trying harder" and given that O gauge in all its forms will outweigh any other scale in either direction by a considerable margin then we are bound to have seen a big growth in S7 contributions.

I don't however recognise Richard's statement
To try to hive off every sub-section into a dead-end siding of its own so ne'er the twain shall meet diminishes them all.
in anything I have said.

From (my) G1 perspective, I was thinking of a separate place in order to promote a particular approach to G1 modelling, with probably a more edited style which would give a more magazine like result than what we have here. I didn't necessarily anticipate any diminution of input into WT apart perhaps from the general concern of not spending all one's modelling time on the computer.

As far as my comments about S7 having it's own place I guess that is where I was coming from, but if you want to promote ScaleSeven properly on a forum then within WT is still in my opinion the wrong place to do it.

That said I wouldn't want to overdo any S7 thing, it's really not burning me up and I (obviously I would hope) have nothing whatever against S7 modelling per se. Not that I expect anyone else to give a fig for what I think either way:p

Simon
 

Jon Fitness

Western Thunderer
Is it me or is there a faint whiff of "the other place" wafting over here.....?
stinker.gif
 

mickoo

Western Thunderer
If I'm honest this was all going to happen and there was enough of a warning in the last great 'debate' on doing and wheat viz chaff thread a few months back. It's still the same nut to crack but just more focused this time.

After the last debate the general ratio of wheat to chaff has changed for the better (I think), however it's the type of wheat (building - playing) that now appears to be the problem.

Scale has no issue and I think has been dragged into this by accident, S7 modellers are posting up lots of 'wheat' now which is changing the balance from playing (I use the term playing broadly and not in the sense of children playing with My Tomy but adults who 'play' football or snooker) to doing.

It is very hard to show playing on a static forum, conversely it is very easy to show doing I.E building models on a work bench (often a simple board balanced on ones knee), be it static or stood on a layout, the S7 Class 26 I posted on the Love Lane thread had been moving, but y'all don't know that from a still photo ;)
The class 26 is actually dual gauge, it can run on S7 or OFS, simply by the application of a special tool I have, it's not perfect but will suffice until I can obtain something better and a little more robust.

The next problem with playing is that you need somewhere to play, a great many here do not have the space or time, let's be brutally honest here, those excellent garden railways and other layouts we see of Phill, Rob, Ian, Simon et al were not whizzed up in a sunday afternoon, they have taken 'years' to grow and mature, therefore anyone now attempting to portray playing is at least looking at several months before they can show anything tangable.

I'm going to take Ian's up on his challenge of a 'moving' S7 layout (it will be both BR blue yellow or BR green depending on stock) and will (if anyone is interested) post up the progress, I've held off as I wanted to finish the A1 tender construction, it's now ready for paint and thus no longer technically a shelf queen, thus I have done something and achieved a goal I set out to do.

It will be interesting to see how long it takes from zero infrastructure to getting something that would appease much of the criticism above, I'm going to guess a couple of months and I'm also going to guess that's not going to be enough to stem the rift between builders and players or those that think S7 really stands for 'Static 7' :(, not that I expect a solo effort to appease eveyone or even anyone, but I'm working on the principle of trying to lead by example rather than banging heads or sniggering behind cupped hands.

After the last debate I changed my wheat to chaff ratio, now I'm going to modify my building to playing ratio, despite what some here think, some of us do listen and try to be 'good citizens' and fit in as best we can.

Finally I did wonder if I had fallen through some secret trapdoor into RMWeb as I read through this lot, even checked the site URL to doubly make sure:(

Y'all have fun now:cool:
 

Mike Sheardown

Western Thunderer
Is it me or is there a faint whiff of "the other place" wafting over here.....?
stinker.gif


I think you may well have a point there Jon.

For me, I don't think that WT is really about railway modelling at all. I think it's about valuing people and being valued, respecting other's and being respected in return, sharing information and helping each other.

If I just wanted railway modelling, I could get that almost anywhere.

Cheers

Mike
 
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