7mm On Heather's Workbench - the only one left

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Regular readers will know I have a client in Australia, for whom I build broad gauge coaches. Well, another Australian client was sent my way, only this time he wanted something, still GWR, but a little more modern and to standard gauge.

This build is a replica of Collett "2251" Class 0-6-0 No 3205. The eagle-eyed will note the number is the same as the single preserved example of the class. The commission is to build 3205 as preserved, with one or two caveats: the tender water pickup gear will be fitted, ATC gear will be fitted (I think), livery will be to GWR plain bronze green with suitable lettering, and although technically the safety valve bonnet and chimney ought to be painted green and black, the model will sport the traditional shiny brass bonnet and a copper capped chimney.

To kick this build off, here is what you get in the box.

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Beginning with the loco, here's the brass etch for the bodywork. Running plate parts, with assembly jig, cab parts, buffer plank, cab roof and alternate cab sides and roof for the locos built without side windows, or with windows plated over.

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Under the running plate comes a chunky nickel silver etch of frames, overlays, coupling rods and cosmetic internal valve gear, brake shoes and rigging. Some of these parts are, happily, replaced by cast versions as I am lucky enough to have the super detail kit in the box.

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Cast parts. I won't name all of them, but you can see there is some duplication in the cab area. This is down to the various sprues having alternate parts for other kits, but it is a bonus for the Bits Box. Resin parts for the boiler and firebox, reversing mechanism block for the front of the cab, roof (saving some rolling at least) and a box which I can't immediately identify. I have spotted a whistle box, which would have been handy for the recent 4200 build. I shall file a note to the effect such components are available from JLTRT for the asking!

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While we're on the loco, here is the SDK for the working inside motion. I reckon I can actually build this. Don't look surprised. The reason I think this is because it's been designed so you don't actually have to split an axle to fit the eccentrics. We shall see…

Right, tender:

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First the chassis. The preserved loco is running with a 3000 gallon tender, so that's what we have in the box. There's a compensation system built into the bits here.

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The running plate, floor, side frames and sundry details.

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The cast parts include a lot of brass bits, some rather indifferent white metal bits which I might be tempted to replace with third party parts, and a hollow resin block for the main bodywork.

Also in the box are various lengths of nickel silver wire, copper wire, some brass rod, the usual supply of springs and bearings, and buffer heads. The latter, again, I may source elsewhere, as I'm not a fan of the JLTRT thing of a head with narrow shank plus a collar to fatten it up. I've got the Slater's wheels ready to be fettled.

So, aside from plates, crew, tools and the motor/gearbox and electronics (DCC and sound on this one, which will be fun with little space available to hide it all), we're good to go.

What I shall probably do is begin work on the loco chassis to get a rolling 0-6-0. While that's under way I will source a suitable powerplant, and consider the waggly bits between the frames and how they'll interfere with current collection and side play sufficient to get round some rather tight curves.

Worth noting that I began a thread asking idiot questions about the loco I shall be modelling. Brian Daniels generously shared his detail photos of 3205 in that thread, so here's a link to it (WT members only, I'm afraid).
 

Dikitriki

Flying Squad
Please, please, please put some proper cranks on the inside valve gear. It's not beyond you, and you would get a great deal of satisfaction.

And, if, for whatever reason, it doesn't work, it's only cost you time, experience, and 1 x replacement Slater's axle.

Richard
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Richard, thank you for the vote of confidence. I am usually first to admit to my limitations. I know more or less what my abilities are, and where I am really better off leaving it to someone else, and I really don't think I'm capable of doing proper cranks. Partly it's down to lack of experience, and partly down to lack of proper tools.

Until I'd opened the box, I was expecting to have to pass the chassis construction on to my usual expert. Reading through the instructions, though, I realised it the upgrade kit had been designed to be virtually idiot proof and didn't need any complicated engineering. I am pretty happy that the finished result will pass reasonably close inspection, even if it doesn't quite look like the real thing.

We shall see. The first job is to get a set of square frames up and running!
 

Ian@StEnochs

Western Thunderer
Heather.
This kit is one of the easy ones! The eccentrics instead of proper cranks work fine but look wrong so do have a go at replacing them. Cut off the valve eccentrics and use them but replace the connecting rod excentrics with proper cranks. I used Martin Finney gwr ones which are good but you will need to make proper big ends on the rods. Easier just to make new rods from scratch rather than modify the cast ones.
Ian.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Argh! :p ;)

I won't be persuaded. Sorry, folks.

One worry is the client would like the loco to traverse 48in curves. I've already told him that may well be utterly impossible without some serious compromises, and he understands the situation. In discussions he is not willing to compromise the fidelity of the finished model's appearance. So, bearing that in mind, with added complications of inside motion, arranging some kind of pickup, whether to provide suspension or not, and it all begins to get more murky by the second.

As I said, I know my limitations. Electronics, inside motion and complicated paint jobs are beyond my pay grade, so I am happy to call in the help of those who can do it. In this case, as the client is happy with the simulated nearly-but-not-quite inside gubbins, then I'm happy to have a crack at it.
 

Scanlon

Western Thunderer
Hi Heather,
A few years ago I built one of these locos from the same kit and it had to negotiate 54 inch curves, so I think it should manage 48 inch OK. As mentioned earlier by Ian this is an easy kit to construct and despite reservations about the inside motion, once installed it looks convincing. This was my effort
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Cheers
Roger
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
I made a start today. Traditionally I begin by cleaning up and blackening the wheels.

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This batch was relatively tidy, and showed no signs of corrosion.

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Then I thought to start on the loco frames. And this is where I got to. Obviously the spacers go in there somewhere, and it's reasonably easy to spot the cylinder block, but as to how they fold and which of the umpteen slots they're supposed to fit into I'm afraid I'm now in the dark.

The instructions have poorly reproduced colour photos of the completed frames, which don't shed any light on how the spacers fit. For once I really miss the CAD generated exploded diagrams. Apparently, parts of this lot have to be opened up for the inside motion, and I've not even started to fathom the rear spacer assembly.

I guess I'm going to have to ask if there are drawings to help from north of the border. That's frustrating.
 

3 LINK

Western Thunderer
Hi Heather,

Mr OzzyO has done quite an in depth build of a 2251 over there on the other channel, it was a few years ago now so I cannot be precise as to what page it starts on, hope this is of some help.

Regards,

Martyn.

Edit, Page 87.
 
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Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Cheers Martyn. I'll go and have a peruse shortly. Laurie at JLTRT tells me he's got lots of images from the test build he's going to sort out for me. Between those and OzzyO's I should make some sense of it.
 
Loco construction begins

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
A slight hiatus. I needed some replacement castings, and the courage to pick this beggar up again!

Rather than have fun trying to work out how the valve gear goes together, information for which is still pending from just north-west of Glasgow, I thought I would be better served making some superstructure headway. At least it looks like the build is moving on when I report to the client!

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As with many kits, the loco running plate is formed of a cradle and half-etched overlay. Forming the rivets under way. The GW Models press is a bit of overkill for is job, but it is consistent.

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As ever, careful attention to filing down etch cusps takes a time. I tinned round all the edges on both parts of the running plate, and after some careful fettling to ensure the etched lamp brackets fitted through their slots, I set about things with the RSU. The end result is a lot tidier than I've managed in the past.

Surprisingly, the SDK doesn't include cast lamp brackets. I have noticed that 3205 has the front lower brackets aligned along the buffer plank, where the kit has the centre one slightly offset. As I'm trying to match the real thing, I guess I shall have to acquire some cast brackets to do the job properly. In fact, I'll have to rummage in the box again to check I haven't missed them.

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The cab floor needed a little attention with a slitting disc to let it sit neatly over the rear splasher fronts. I may yet need to trim some material away. I have cast whitemetal splashers, but you can probably guess they don't fit by a country mile. Happily, the frets include etched parts which I need to form up and solder on. It may be prudent to leave them for a time, until the frames are motorised. I can then check clearances and sideplay more easily.

And we're back in the room. Finger trouble meant I hit the submit button before I was ready. Apologies if you've read this while I'm editing it!

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The buffer plank and rear drawbar are fitted. The drawbar has been etched wrongly, with rivet holes the wrong side of the tender buffer plates. I cut them off, formed the rivets and soldered them back in the right order. This is noted in what pass for the instructions. I've used some milled brass angle to help with fitting, because apart from the running plate there is precious little to hold things in place. On the real thing, there's are cab steps, injector brackets and sandboxes which all help to hold things together. I have taken into consideration the loco frames, so the angle is only fairly short.

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The buffer plank is a two-part etch affair. Slots on the rear align with the hanging bars, while the other fixing is along the inside edge of the top of the running plate. Again, brass angle has been used to add reinforcement at the rear of the hanging bar front drop.

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Where things had got to earlier today. The cylinder block cover was formed up, again with little help from the instructions, and clips neatly into slots on the running plate. Both this and the cab floor are posed for effect.

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I finished the day by sweating in the cab overlays to the folded up carcass. Alternate sides etches are provided, as there were very subtle differences during the prototype production run. Provision is made for sides with no windows, with plated over windows, and with the final form of windows. The kit has etched roof parts, as well as a resin cast roof. I shall make my mind up on which to use in due course, though I'm tending towards the metal parts.

That's enough for today. A different build tomorrow!
 
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Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
I think it was one of those days.

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What did I achieve? The captive nuts that will hold the chassis to the body were soldered on. I thought it would be an idea to move the cab on a bit, while things were in pieces.

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The sum total of an afternoon's slaving over a hot iron. I'm not sure what the proper name for them is, but the doodahs that must brace the real thing's cab sides were assembled. Then I realised they needed shortening so the cab floor could go back in. I think that was an error at the design stage. I considered actually fitting the floor to the cab, rather than to the frames with the cab sat round it, only that didn't quite work out. Out with the gas torch. The cab rebate beading was attached. One side went on nicely. The other side was an utter pig.

The handrails have been partially fitted, but will need to be shortened where they drop into the running plate. Currently, I am considering attaching the cab carcass to the running plate, while it is easier to get into the bottom edges from the inside. The floor slides in neatly, and can be tacked in place later. Then I think it'll be sensible to arrange for the boiler casting to be screwed into the cab front and mounted at the smokebox saddle.

I'm not terribly happy with progress, but something has moved on a bit at least.
 
Fitting the boiler and cab

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Against my better judgment I decided to crack on with the upperworks for another day.

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It's beginning to look like a loco instead of a pile of components and subassemblies. Rather than leave it till too late, as usual, I've sorted out the screws to fix the boiler casting to the frames and cab.

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The cab window handrails took a bit of a fiddle, but are worth the effort. I made sure to dress off the wire inside the cab. Obviously, there are some fit and finish issues with the boiler and cab to the running plate.

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Meanwhile, with the backhead casting, the reverser cabinet, and whatever the handle-and-rod affair is, posed in place, the cab is coming together. The tip-up seats are fitted - and still work! I reckon there ought to be spectacle plate castings, so I'll do a bit of grovelling to JLTRT and see if I can't get some. I shall assume the ones used in other locos will fit. The GWR was standardised, of course.

The reverser cabinet on 3205 is different to the kit parts, so a little fabrication still to do. The reverser mechanism casting needs to be chopped back, as on the real thing it sticks through the front sheet and has a cover down to the running plate.

Doesn't seem a lot for two days' work.
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
I reckon there ought to be spectacle plate castings, so I'll do a bit of grovelling to JLTRT and see if I can't get some. I shall assume the ones used in other locos will fit. The GWR was standardised, of course.
Not so.

In the mid 1970s the GWS was forward thinking about spares and patterns for casting of those spares. At that time I was responsible for sourcing drawings / patterns and cab front / side window frames were perceived as the key items after boiler fittings... so I did the necessary research amongst the "preserved" engines bought direct from BR... the "recovered" engines from Messrs Dai and family... plus whatever drawings that I could locate at the embryonic NRM. The outcome of the activity (remember this is pre-1980) was:-

* one size of side window;
* one size of front window for pannier tank engines;
* one size for engines like Halls, Manors, Castles, 2800s.

Given the brief, I did not assess classes for which no examples remained (1000 / 2900 / 4700 / 6800) or to which I could not get easy access (Lode Star... 1366...).

At this remove I cannot recall what was the conclusion about the 4500 / 4200 / 5200 / 7200 engines.

Finally, I did locate one drawing for the "standard" cab front window (Halls, Manors, Castles...) and I recall that there was an odd-ball, might have been the Kings or might have been the 1000s.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Thanks Graham. I was being a little facetious with my remark. I'll run a vernier over the apertures later and we can work out if they might match an existing kit part from JLTRT.
 

Phil O

Western Thunderer
Heather, I think GW lamp irons are off set a bit to allow for the fact that the lamp fits on the side of it, thus when the lamps are fitted the lamp centers are symmetrical or on the centre line.
 

OzzyO

Western Thunderer
View attachment 55001

The buffer plank and rear drawbar are fitted. The drawbar has been etched wrongly, with rivet holes the wrong side of the tender buffer plates. I cut them off, formed the rivets and soldered them back in the right order. This is noted in what pass for the instructions. I've used some milled brass angle to help with fitting, because apart from the running plate there is precious little to hold things in place. On the real thing, there's are cab steps, injector brackets and sandboxes which all help to hold things together. I have taken into consideration the loco frames, so the angle is only fairly short.

View attachment 55002

!

Hello Heather,

the rubbing plates on the rear draw-bar are etched correctly, what look like half etches for rivets are inset bolt heads, see below.
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All of the answers to all your questions and more are in my build over on the other side.

OzzyO.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
Paul, it's great to see you back! You've been missed!

I realised I'd made a mistook on the drawbar after I'd reread your thread in t'other place. It's obvious when you look closely that what appear to be dimples for punching out are actually etched recessed nuts or bolts. Too late now, but no-one will mind.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
I am contemplating picking this build up again, after some extensive coach work finally clearing the bench. I've been thinking about the cab front spectacles.

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The kit appears to be designed to be fitted with suitably shaped glazing material stuck straight into the front sheet.

The real thing has opening spectacles with nice brass frames and the latch. I asked Laurie of JLTRT if he could send me some measurements of the various castings in their stocks. I actually got a small selection in the post! Sadly, neither actually fit.

Now, I would like something that better represents the opening spectacles. Failing an off-the-shelf casting - and I've had a look at the usual ranges of castings without luck, unless you know better - how could I approach fabricating a facsimile of the frames? They don't need to actually work, though that might be fun.
 
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