Painting the wood blocks of Mansell wheels - colour?

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
The received wisdom is that GWR "wood" for the blocks of Mansell wheels was possibly Mahogany or Teak (confirmed by Peter (@Peter Insole) see later post) . This gives to modellers the problem of choosing an appropriate paint from one of the preferred / regular paint ranges.

Your suggestions please.

thank you Graham
 
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unklian

Western Thunderer
Black ..... ?
I think natural wood finishes are one of those preservationist fictions. Like my mate says too tarty to be real !

Ian
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
I've found a copy of the Mansell Wheel specifications:

Segments to be made of dry, well seasoned "Moulmein" or "Rangoon Teak", free from heart or sap...
...The woodwork to have four coats of best varnish, and the boss and rings to be painted black and varnished...

The wheels were a patented design and produced and supplied to all the railways by outside contractors, so would have been built to the same specifications. Teak is an oily wood and does not take paint readily, so deeply varnished they were, always I'm afraid!

My approach to varnished wood in coach construction is to paint a streaky (grainwise) yellowish brown or reddish brown mix of Humbrol, then when completely dry apply at least two coats of Ronseal Satin "Antique Pine" varnish with a soft flat brush.

Pete.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
I mainly use Matt colours such as

62 "Leather", 93 "Desert Yellow", 98 "Dark Brown", 119 "Light Earth all mixed in different proportions to taste!

For redwoods I add 113 "Rust" or 160 "German Red Brown"!

When mixed, the colours look a bit light, but the coats of yellowy-brown varnish not only deepens the shade, but gives a lovely "depth" to the finish.
 

Heather Kay

Western Thunderer
I have had quite a few GWR coaches through the workbench over the past few years, and not a few have the Slater's idea of Mansell wheels. I've not been too fussy about the colour, I openly admit, and the prospect of individually detailing each wheel would drive me more crazy than I already am.

By way of an example, here's one I did earlier by way of showing how grim it might be under a coach that's been in service for a while.

image.jpeg

It's a kind of reddish brown, and I personally don't think it would matter if I spent ages recreating grain and varnish effects. That said, no-one's going to stop anyone doing it if they want to! :drool:
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
I've no idea whether these are helpful or not, but here they are anyway. As you'll be aware I know nothing about coaching stock, and these photos are identified only as SE & CR 4-wheel coach which I took at Quainton Road on 30 August 1969. Neither photo has had the benefit of any post processing either and I've just seen that the close up of the wheel will need rescanning as it shows Newtons Rings.

Brian

SE & CR 4-wheel Coach.  Quainton.  30 Aug 1969 (3) - Copy.jpg SE & CR 4-wheel Coach.  Quainton.  30 Aug 1969.jpg
 

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Is that a balance weight or repair plate on the inside face of the wheel?
er........... Is that a rhetorical question, Dave?:)

And I've thought that was a SE & CR coach for 47 years! There is a considerable clue on that axlebox cover where "DR" can be clearly read, even in the photo's under exposed state.

Brian
 
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Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
I am thinking along the lines of doing a sort of colour swatch thing for varnished wood and scumble finishes in order to nail this problem once and very much for all!

Up until now I have just used my arty approach of opening any or all of my tins of brownish, red and yellowy shades and muddle them together to make a colour that matches whatever sample I have acquired for the task! At no time have I ever thought to record the precise mixtures required!

I am being asked for guidance on the subject ever more frequently these days, and am rather embarrassed to disappoint every time with; "Errm, I'm not sure but...er...can't remember...mm...it was probably...!"

Trouble is, by the time I get myself organised just enough to actually do it, the Humbrol range could well have disappeared again, and permanently?!!

Pete.
 

Dog Star

Western Thunderer
... by the time I get myself organised just enough to actually do it, the Humbrol range could well have disappeared again, and permanently?!!
Please do not forget that some of us use other paint ranges... for example:- I use Games Workshop acrylics for much non-railway colouring whilst Rob Pulham uses Vallajo regularly.

Otherwise, a jolly good idea, thank you.
 

Peter Insole

Western Thunderer
I know it is not an answer to the original question but I just like old drawings and other ephemera, so here is an illustration from the original spec:

mansell 131.jpg

And some wonderful copy from same, just in case anyone is interested:

Each pair of finished wheels and axles to be properly balanced, and they must be driven at a speed equal to 60 miles per hour and show up perfectly true.
The wheels to be properly bonded with three strand copper wire where shown on the drawing for track circuit signalling, and all joints thoroughly coated with an anti-corrosive.

The Contractor shall provide, at his own expense, one additional tyre and one additional axle out of every fifty, to be selected from the bulk by the Railway Company's Carriage Superintendent, or any person he may appoint to inspect and pass the work, and to be tested in his presence by the Contractor in the manner hereinbefore described.

Nearly one half of the finished wheels manufactured are found on testing to be out of balance, even though every care be taken, owing to the density of the material, and in practice weights differing up to 2 lb. are necessary to be attached near the periphery to give required balance. These weights are in plate form and placed under the retaining-ring bolts as shown at B in fig. 338, or screwed to the teak centre just below.

Pete.
 

Yorkshire Dave

Western Thunderer
Please do not forget that some of us use other paint ranges... for example:- I use Games Workshop acrylics for much non-railway colouring whilst Rob Pulham uses Vallajo regularly.

I use the Vallejo Model Air and Model ranges all the time now for both railway and non railway colours. And for those of us also modelling US railroads Model Railroad Hobbyist Magazine has produced a guide detailing the Vallejo equivalents and mixes required to match the now defunct Floquil/PollyScale ranges.

These weights are in plate form and placed under the retaining-ring bolts as shown at B in fig. 338, or screwed to the teak centre just below.

This answers my earlier question and this is evident in Brain's photo of the wheel back on the LCDR carriage.
 

Spike

Western Thunderer
Here is the first attempt at painting (@Dog Star) and detailing the wheels by myself using my Cameo.

The paints used are from the Games Workshop range and are as follows:
  • Bestial Brown
  • Sunburst Yellow
  • Desert Yellow
Note that these are the names which were in use at some time in the past, the GW web site has a conversion from old to new names... most of those who inhabit such stores seem also to be able to quote conversions without reference material.

IMG_5771.jpg

The back of the wheel looked a bit empty, so I decided to have a go producing the iron work using Inkscape and my Cameo. An evenings work and I had the drawing completed and tested. The following weekend I ran the parts through the Cameo cutting out from 10 thou plastic sheet.

IMG_5772.jpg

The discs have had small dots of plastic added and have been sprayed black using Games Workshop Chaos Black spray.

Final step was to attach the completed discs to the backs of the wheels and varnish with gloss acrylic medium.

IMG_5773.jpg

The thought had crossed my mind as to whether it was worth adding in the discs to the back given that I suspect they will not be that noticeable once under a coach, but looking at the final product I am pleased with the outcome and was worth the hours put into the drawing and painting.

Regards
Peter
 
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