S7 track construction question

[Marc Dobson]

I'm about to start building a S7 point from a Waverley point kit. I have all the parts for building it with slaters brass stud or C&L, apart from check rail and frog chairs. Which method would people recomend using? The point is an A4 LH.

Marc

 

[Eastsidepilot]

You can build your point work entirely with plastic chairs if needed but I have tended to use a cast brass chair for dropper wire connection by filing one of the bolt heads flush with the chair, drilling through for a brass wire, I've used 0.7mm, once soldered just crop it off just proud of the chair surface to represent the bolt head.
Crossing vee and wing rails need to be connected by brass flat bar, for electrical continuity, filed flush with the outside of the rail foot so that plastic chairs can be cut and fitted up against the rail. Plastic slide chairs work well in use, we've used them on Love Lane successfully but brass are available and can be soldered to the rail but will have to be glued to the sleeper, personally if using these I'd pin them as well so that they don't move whilst plastic will of coarse be glued down with Butanone and tend not to work loose.
What do you get in the Waverley point kit ?

Col.

 

[NewportRod]

Hi Marc
I can't say which is better in S7, never having used studs or rivets other than in 4mm, but i can say that using solvent to attach plastic chairs (I use Exactoscale) to ply timbers does produce robust results quickly. Never tried anything as extreme as an A4 either.
Rod

 

[Marc Dobson]

The Waverley kits was designed to solder to PCB sleepers. You get all the rail pre formed and the V of the frog soldered.
I have a stash of them, that I keep picking up on eBay.I have not found any S7 check rail chairs apart from the ones on Shapeways, I'm not a big fan if Shapeways stuff, it's not got a good enough surface finish.
Marc

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Not a fan of pcb sleepered track apart from storage/cassette roads. As Rod says above ply/timber sleepering is much better with plastic chairs.
The problem with pcb with rails soldered direct to it is that the chairs will be sitting to high to fit the web of the rail unless the rail is on top of a rivet, a method of track building which to my mind is a bit out of date now. It's how the early P4 stuff was made with punched ply sleepers with rivets.
We have used Dave Rayners checkrail chairs on Love Lane, personally I think they look good and with regards surface finish if there is any discrepancy then it doesn't notice.

To be honest Marc if your just starting out with track building I'd seriously consider going down the timber/ply sleeper and plastic chair method especially if you've got a lot of it to do.
Col.

 

[Marc Dobson]

I have removed all the PCB and put that aside for other jobs. The rail parts are very good and very nicely formed. I've built plain track using both rivet and C&L in FS and for the small layout I had in mind I wouldn't need more than one point, a catch point and 3 yards of track. Small and achievable and a learning curve.
Marc

 

[Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen]

Marc,

For check rails I use suitably butchered 3 bolt chairs rather than purpose made ones. On a B8 turnout the check rails extend over 5 sleepers so I use 3 regular chairs to hold them in place, one at either end and one in the middle. On the stock rails I leave off the chairs that would be next to the 3 check rail chairs. I then cut 3 bolt chairs in half and use them cosmetically on the outside of the stock rail and inside of the check rail to give the appearance of check-rail chairs. It's a fudge but works pretty well and is a simple solution.
I hope that makes some sort of sense to you.
Tim

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Marc,
Have you used Templot or have access to it ?

Col.

 

[Marc Dobson]

I have produced a templot A4 LH pattern and I have all the plastic chairs apart from the ones by the frog and the checkrails.
Marc

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Your all set then Marc, just need the 'A' chair then ?

 

[Marc Dobson]

Excuse my lack of knowledge which chair are we talking about?


Marc

 

[Susie]

Hi Marc,

One thing I would ask is how necessary is it that you have an A4 turnout? I only ask because it is the shortest and tightest normally used on a railway, and often restricted the stock that could negotiate it.

 

[Marc Dobson]

The biggest loco to go over it will be a Terrier, a Beatte Well tank or a GER tram loco depending on which direction go down. All stock that will go down the curved section will be wagons shorter than 16ft6 and with wheel base's less than 10ft. on my FS shunting layout WC Boggs the curves go down to 3ft4 (Peco set track) and the stock would be same.

Marc

 

[Eastsidepilot]

The biggest loco to go over it will be a Terrier, a Beatte Well tank or a GER tram loco depending on which direction go down. All stock that will go down the curved section will be wagons shorter than 16ft6 and with wheel base's less than 10ft. on my FS shunting layout WC Boggs the curves go down to 3ft4 (Peco set track) and the stock would be same.

Marc

In S7 the tolerances are a lot tighter than F/S but you should find that the stock you have listed will go through an A4 turnout. A typical A4 turnout had a radius of 130' which equates to 910 mm ( 35 13/16") in 7mm scale. Mainly used in yards by the LNER, LMS and the LPTB

The 'A' chair is the chair that sits right under the nose of the crossing vee. These are available from 'Off The Rails' (Shapeways) and C&L.

Col.

 

[Marc Dobson]

I knew about the Off the rails ones but im not a fan of shapeways, I used to use them for making patterns but the quality went down as the price went up. One of the main reasons I bought my own 3D printer. I can produce things at a higher standard at fraction of the cost and wait of 4 weeks. When I asked C&L if they did S7 point chairs they said no. I will email them and ask again.

Marc

 

[Eastsidepilot]

The chairs are not defined by a standard i.e. S7 or F/S, Marc, they are just 7mm scale.

These are the crossing nose or 'A' chair Online Store | CLFinescale
They are available, or should be in white metal or brass.

Col.

 

[Marc Dobson]

I see now. I will order some as I will need them regardless of which route I take. Looking at the plan on the computer. I should be able to use normal chairs for most of the point. I have two point kits at A4 so i'm tempted to build one in each method and compare them I feel an article for the newsletter might be in the offing.
Marc

 

[Bill Campbell]

Hi Marc

Have you considered using a pair of trimmed back slide chairs for the crossing nose?

They are similar in appearance having the bolt through the rail web - and a lot more economical - see below.


The checkrail chairs in the photo are pairs of 4 bolt chairs with the inside of each chair trimmed to fit in the flangeway.

Regards.

 

[Marc Dobson]

That looks like a good compromise.
Marc

 

[martin_wynne]

Excuse my lack of knowledge which chair are we talking about?
View attachment 179583

Marc

NONE OF THOSE!

How many times do I have to explain that the chairing in Templot is still EXPERIMENTAL and UNFINISHED?

Those chairs are complete rubbish because I haven't written any code yet for the special crossing chairs, or for the check rail chairs. Templot has simply laid a row of ordinary chairs along each rail.

Did you not see this:



Not happy. You are making Templot look rubbish.

Martin.