Slaters 7mm Manning Wardle Class 'k' 0-6-0t Kit.

[phileakins]

Well you see, it's not my fault - I went to the Central Southern 0 gauge do last Sunday and made the basic mistake of taking my cheque-book, with unused cheques in it!

And well, Peter and Geoff manning the second hand stall are mates (and co-operators of Wadebridge 1860s) and there was this kit and my wife wasn't with me and they tempted me ....

When I got home the dearly beloved said 'What have you bought?', I pointed at a couple of books, 'one pound each' I said 'and I got a horse drawn van kit for fifteen quid'. 'What's in the box marked £150?' she thundered .... OK, I exagerate, she was actually at work when I got home and hid the box in the railway room but I did own up, eventually.

Having flogged off some bits to Mr Dale I have now managed to replaced them with another kit which I determined that I will attempt to build over the next month, whilst I am on leave. In public, ie here, with pictures!

The Manning Wardle 'K' fits both the Wadebridge line (aka 'Jumbo') and the SECR so I have a choice of which way to go.

Actually the kit seems to be a good'n. It includes wheels, motor, gearbox and appears complete (from the Dick Ganderton unbuilt collection I'm told).

So, tomorrow we start.

Anyone with experience of this kit please speak up before I make a complete foul up of the thing.

Phil

 

[Simon Dunkley]

Um.

Good luck mate!

I have done a bit of work on one, for my father in law: originally he hand it to me to try to tempt me into 0 gauge. It backfired, as I opened the box, read the instructions, and realised I might prefer to do things my own way! A good motorising option is a 1430 Mashima plus a High-Level Roadrunner+ (i.e. with the extension piece) mounted with motor in boiler, driving the rear axle via the rear of the firebox. A 1630 would also do, but the flat can variant has the benefit of being able to pass the motor wires down the boiler tube more easily. There are some clever design features in the chassis, allowing for springing, etc, but in the end this one ended up with fixed outer axles and the middle ones going along for the ride! As well as motorising it, I have fitted wiper pickups, with busbars running under the frames.

John D built one to S7 standards: you could fit inside motion, too, if you felt like a challenge, although there is very little space to see it.

If you have a specific colour scheme in mind, it will pay you dividends to keep it in mind as you build the loco, so that things like sandboxes can be lined, and also not get in the way of other bits.

The finished loco really looks the part, though - I have seen one running which was built as-designed, with full springing and a coreless drive with step-down gears, cardan shafts and a helical gearbox, and it was silky smooth and totally silent.

 

[Simon Dunkley]

Phil,

I did a bit of research last night, after posting the above.
Jumbo was not a K, it was an "Old I", as were some of the first K's built. (New Class I was an 0-4-0ST for those who wondered.)
The difference is in the length of the loco to accommodate a longer boiler, and the second part of the wheelbase was extended to cope with the firebox being further back. Although not a big change, it does significantly alter the look of the loco.

However, the K seems to have been the most numerous loco class produced, and few people can tell the difference, so how much you worry about this is up to you.

 

[John D]

Over the years I've built three of these, the latest........


No problems encountered putting it together, had a Branchlines 3 stage gearbox fitted with a Mashima 16/24 (I think) motor upright in the firebox (just!) driving the rear axle. Was built for a projected S7 mini layout......then I saw sense As an afterthought the only things to watch out for are the clack valves on the side of the boiler, I'm sure they are overscale and thus a reet b*****d to fit

 

[Ressaldar]

Hi John,

lovely jubbly.

cheers

Mike

 

[phileakins]

Thanks chaps -

Simon - I was relying on the (very full) instructions for the information about the LSWR version, the photo of Jumbo certainly looks the same, so I'm not worrying! Thanks for the re-search though. After the demise of Wadebridge this loco will re-surface as SECR 752, definitely a 'K' according to Bradley, and modified to S7. Well, that's the plan! I don't think I'll do the inside motion though.

Super work John, I've something to aspire to.

The build has started, and the first piece 'pinged'. I deliberately had the flooring in the railway room laid so that any 'pinging' parts would be very visible. Well, that was wrong then. So tomorrow I'll be making a new part, luckily I've got another for a pattern.

The frames folded up well and the bearings slide in their horn-guides as they should, no rocking apparent on the plate glass test. I'm using my conventional solder station rather than the RSU, no particular reason. I do use the same technique though, a very small slice of solder (depending on the length of joint) is cut off with a knife and positioned against the joint relying on the flux to hold it in place, and the iron then introduced. Result - no, or very little, cleaning up to do and no third hand needed.

John, have I found a design fault? the outside compensation lever fouls the bottom of the brake hanger lug and won't line up to its hole. Or have I got something wrong?

Anyway - some pictures, firstly as bought. Please note that the boiler is turned out of 3mm walled brass tube, and then milled, we are not talking cheap here.





And work to date:


Phil

 

[28ten]

I did one of these many years ago, my abiding memory is of thick metal for the tank. Other than that I dont remember anything unusual, which is usually a reasonably good sign

 

[phileakins]

The last couple of days work - not a lot to look at but a fair few singed digits. I've swapped over to the PSU, if only to save the electricity bill!

Here's today's picture having completed the compensation beams (one of which 'pinged' and took the best part of a day to sort out) firebox and cylinder assembly. The cover of the latter part was an absolute pig to get right, and fouls the fold up horn-guides.



Off now to watch my youngest read his own poetry to an assembled crowd at his school, there will be beer!

Phil

 

[phileakins]

There was beer which anaesthetised some of the more 'esoteric' poetry (my missus has very sharp elbows!). Still, the lad did well and got a lot of appreciation. Where he gets it from I don't know. He did one of four lines which he wrote in a spare moment yesterday which has lodged itself in my hind-brain and I can't get rid of it.

One step forward and two back on the loco (no picture today - not much to see). I finally fitted the cylinder assembly having taken the cover off and then put the cover back on when in place. That worked and the dummy slide bars all line up and soldered into in the motion bracket.

The next task was the gear assembly. The primary drive chain is pre-assembled and the motor attached. Soldered up the helical gearing (having made certain the motor works first) and assembled the gearbox to the driven axle, the motor went round, the axle didn't. The final gear on the drive chain from the motor was loose on on the spline on its shaft, and the gear chain housing was not built to come apart. It did, eventually, and even went back together. By heck, it's quiet when it's working though. I'm used to gearboxes I've built sounding like a flight of Harley Davidons, without silencers.

Having a working motor assembly meant a big step forward to a rolling chassis so I matched the motor to the frames - errr, no, that ain't right. Bl**dy heck, I've fitted the firebox the wrong way round ........ .

I must have a working chassis by Sunday as I've GOT to do some work towards my essay due just after Christmas and I've promised Mrs PE I'll study, so a Saturday of fixing an fettling with a final sprint on Sunday.

Well, it's a plan.

Phil

 

[phileakins]

OK - I'll keep it short!

The firebox got turned around (oh, what a lot of anguish/profanity in five words!) the motor and gearbox fitted eventually. I was going to say how well deigned this kit is, but I had to take the saw to enable me to fit them. The motor has been on test this afternoon meaning several disassembles along the way to find the tight spots. Judicious drips of 3-in-one and micro-grease in the final drive and it's running like a sewing machine, only a da*mn site quieter!

Here's some pictures from today with the chassis on test:







Wheels tomorrow.

Phil

 

[Steph Dale]

OK - I'll keep it short!
Judicious drips of 3-in-one and micro-grease in the final drive and it's running like a sewing machine...

Phil,

You might want to clean that back off again and use something that's designed for model railways . 3in1 is near-fatal to most plastics, I'm afraid. Of course it may be that the gearcase is painted black, but it looks like Slater's now-traditional glass-filled nylon to me!

You'd be better using one of the Seuthe oils, or something from Hob-E-lube (the latter from Bachmann/Woodland Scenics dealers). Cleaning the mech could be very easy - out with a can of (lubricant free) switchcleaner and spray away! An alternative would be to slosh something solventy but relatively benign around, meths maybe?

Of course if it's ball raced I may have to get back to you...

Steph

 

[phileakins]

Thanks for that Steph - I didn't realise the oil was that bad (obvious really otherwise I wouldn't have used it)! Yes, it's a plastic gearbox.

I'll see what I can pick up from the traders at the Poole exhibition on Sunday to put things right.

Anyone any tips on the best way to run the pickups on this loco? I don't want to use plungers as the holes in the frames would be not much smaller than the wheels.

Ta.

Phil

 

[Simon Dunkley]

Cleaning the mech could be very easy - out with a can of (lubricant free) switchcleaner and spray away!

Miserable voice of experience speaking here: be careful with that stuff - it is designed to be conductive, and can penetrate fabric grade tufnol, as used in split axle manufacture, for (bitter) example, and un-insulate things!

 

[Steph Dale]

Miserable voice of experience speaking here: be careful with that stuff - it is designed to be conductive, and can penetrate fabric grade tufnol, as used in split axle manufacture, for (bitter) example, and un-insulate things!

Simon,

Actually in my experience the lubricant-free stuff is pretty tame; the lubricated version tends to be pretty much as you describe though. And, as an aside, there's another little reason I don't make my split axles with Tufnol, it's horrid stuff in all sorts of 'interesting' ways!

Phil,

Simon's advice is timely and very sensible if you're not sure about switch cleaner spray: I would think that lighter fluid and a brush may be equally effective if slightly more labour-intensive. Of course, you don't want to soak any of the parts in it for any length of time as that could be equally damaging as the 3in1 over the longer term. But I think using some form of solvent would be good practise to dry any of the oil residues out of the plastic parts.

BTW - has the gearbox got metal or plastic gears? The last Slater's gearbox I had used one nylon and the rest were steel or brass, IIRC. Either way I wouldn't worry, I don't think I've recommended anything that will kill your gearbox. If it's got ball races the 'slopping lighter fluid around' option may be better actually, as then you can make sure you don't force/spray crud into the bearings.

Steph

 

[John D]

any tips on the best way to run the pickups on this loco?

For what it's worth I fitted wire (phospher bronze) pick-ups rubbing on the backs of all wheels...worked absolutely fine. Plunger type pick-ups would be the kiss of death, but you could also be o-so-clever and fit split axle pick-up which would be the ultimate system

 

[phileakins]

Thanks gents, I'll get some lighter fluid - cheaper and it's readily available at the corner shop.

Too late for split axles John, maybe next time. Wipers it will have to be, my eldest has just presented me with some redundant guitar strings, I'll have a play, I think the the phosphor bronze strip in the box might be too difficult to to hide.

Steel and brass Steph - it's a very old kit.

Phil

 

[Simon Dunkley]

Phil,

Hope this helps - a couple of bits of stout n/s wire, and some springier wire (sheathed in black plastic insulation) for the pick ups, plus four small bits of double sided pcb. (Tin one side, then you can sweat it onto the chassis, and solder the pick up busbars on later.)
When I have fitted and wired the motor, I will paint the busbars a very dark gray.

Simon
(Was using the mobile phone to take the picture - no close up fitting!)

 

[Sheffield]

If I may be permitted to resurrect this thread I would like to add my experiences with the kit. It seems to have received mixed reviews on the internet, but I did not find it too difficult. As might be expected with this prototype, the chassis is lacking horizontal frame stretchers, and needs care to make and keep it square. Forearmed by the comments made earlier I took care to make the cylinder block so that it would fit between the frames, but failed to notice that when fitted in what seemed the right place it fouled the leading horn gaps, limited movement of the front axle boxes. Careful use of a small file was necessary to cure that problem.
The kit is not now supplied with a motor and I used a Mashima 1224 motor, standing vertically in the firebox, with a Highlevel gearbox to the rear axle. This made fitting the motor much easier, and I think the motor will be big enough as the loco will only have a few wagons to shuffle. As this left the boiler empty I filled it with lead, and secured the boiler to the firebox as well as the smoke box, which stiffed up the body of the loco considerably. The "wooden" part of the cast brake shoes I removed and replaced with ones cut from plastic, so that I could push the shoes close to the wheels without the possibility of any short circuits. I did find difficulty in folding up the saddle tank, but I think that was my lack of skill rather than the fault of the kit. For pickups I used the phosphor bronze strips supplied, but these seem a bit wide and too visible so I may replace them with wire.
As mentioned the clack boxes do seem too big, and I replaced them with home made ones. The photographs of the prototype I was following had the sand boxes in front of the clack boxes, hiding them so that eased that problem. It was interesting to use these photographs to follow the loco through time and see how details changed just on one loco, never mind between different locos.
All I now have left to do is cut off the crank pins, but I want to build the track for it to run on and make sure every thing is correct before I do that task. So far it runs well on blocks and on the very short stretch of track available. All in all I am quite pleased with the kit and how it has turned out.

 

[Dikitriki]

Hello Sheffield, and welcome to WT.

A useful report for someone considering the Slater's MW. Be sure to let us have details of further projects.

Richard

 

[Dog Star]

Hello Gordon and welcome,

You have made a very nice model, I do like the finish. The name of the engine suggests bigger things.

regards, Graham