Sorting out the accumulated part done and not yet started things workbench

Discussion in 'Workbenches, including workshop techniques.' started by Martin Shaw, 28 March 2020.

  1. Overseer

    Overseer Western Thunderer

    Before pulling it all apart I think you should try with the solid coupling on the loco drive shaft replaced with another universal joint and a loose drive shaft between the loco and tender. Line the slots in the coupling cups up, at 90 degrees they can cause surging. The spring on the original drive shaft was probably meant to provide the flexibility needed in the shaft but looks like it may have been too stiff.
     
  2. victorianman

    victorianman Western Thunderer

    Martin, I concur with Overseer. Although the drawbar allows some relative side-to-side movement between loco and tender, the single u/j can't cope with either that or up-and-down movement.. I have successfully used a ball and socket at one end as per yours with the probably now defunct Exactoscale ball-and-socket-in-neoprene-tube at the other. It has worked for over twenty years, even though designed for 4mm scale. The tubing is flexible but holds everything together, stops end float on the drive shaft, and also holds its own end of the shaft in position when it is necessary to separate loco and tender for any reason. The same effect is attained with a rounded-off end of drive shaft held by the tube against a spherical depression in a suitable sleeve over the gear drive shaft, somewhat like a mortar and pestle in shap.
    Sympathies for the enlargement of a simple modification into a much larger re-build; I think most of us on here have been there. Hope these comments are of some assistance; I'm learning from your efforts.
     
  3. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    My thanks to Overseer and Victorianman for their contributions, I think they are both right and I did have a look at UJs from industry and the model RC world but could find nothing immediately available that was small enough. I also came to some unavoidable conclusions over the weekend.
    I started this on the 1st of June and I have put in a lot of effort to maintain the original constructors ideas whilst upgrading the engineering such that it moved itself but still issues to solve, I was beginning to doubt my abilities to take it further. The model is quite nice but it's not museum stuff and I was starting to question in my mind whether it justified this amount of work. All I really wanted it to do was run reasonably reliably on the odd occasion it came out of its box and I didn't feel I was near achieving that. And in all honesty I had got bored with it. I have other more interesting projects more directly associated with me I would like to do.
    So, a way forward,
    IMG_0828 (2).JPG
    The tender chassis has been stripped of the motor, I need do nothing else as it fits. The loco has had the small JH fitted, it is rotationally retained by a screw through the frame into the gearbox and fits as neatly as possible into the firebox. Temporary wiring with croc clips proved it works and once permanent wiring and the brake gear refitted some paint can be wafted across it all and that will do. I have also realised that tempus fugit remains an inexorable reminder that some times good enough is exactly that.
    Regards
    Martin
     
  4. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    I guess that’s “KISS” in a nutshell. There are undoubtedly times when one wonders “what’s the point?”.

    Good escape plan sir!
    Atb
    Simon
     
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  5. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Thanks Simon, I do feel as though I have copped out, but it was slowly doing my head in, to use a modern aphorism, far better I feel to actually finish it. It is as it stands I think somewhat better or at least simpler than where I started.
    Regards
    Martin
     
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  6. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Right, thats it finished as far as I want to take it. It runs, a little bit noisily which would benefit from running in and needs paint, which is far from a strong point with me, so probably won't happen. It has been an interesting experience, if indeed it involved a dead end, but time to do something else.
    Regards
    Martin
    IMG_0836.JPG
     
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  7. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    Martin

    you’ll be happier if the chassis isn’t brass coloured.

    Iain Rice’ book on loco building suggested spraying the assembled chassis whilst it is running - I have tried it and it works, and it’s quick & easy - connect a couple of wires to the motor & a supply, and use a rattle can. (And rubber gloves!)

    Having done that, it’s a matter of choice to airbrush some weathering.

    I think it fits the description of “quick and dirty” :)

    atb
    Simon
     
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  8. AJC

    AJC Western Thunderer

    I think that's how Mike Edge does it, too. I share with Mike the prejudice against making something work and then stripping the thing down in order to do it all again...

    Good work, Martin, and get the thing painted, it'll be better for it.

    Adam
     
    Last edited: 24 August 2020
  9. Threadmark: The railway modellers curse
    Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Simon and Adam are of course both correct but just at the moment I am rather disinterested in painting so despite their urgings it can wait until the paint shop foreman deigns to bother himself.

    This is next on the list for attention,
    IMG_0838.JPG
    an LNER N15 from a George Dawson Majestic Models kit. This was the third of his I had tackled and it went together pretty easily to the point shown here in about 4 or 5 evenings where it stopped for quite some time, personal matters intervened. The whitemetal castings are plonked on for effect but there isn't too much to do, largely detailing on the body. The chassis is complete except I forgot it wasn't screwed to the body so it dropped on the carpet and bent a guard iron, easily straightened and a paint touch up. Not too long to do I hope and at least it's not sorting out somebody elses stuff.

    When we moved into this house I obviously brought all my bits and bobs with the intention of making serious inroads, this hasn't happened as originally thought and then I was bequeathed the other vast amount of stuff, which I have largely managed to sell off, a continuing process, but I did promise myself not to fall foul of the railway modellers curse. I succumbed, without needing another kit in my life, so I bought this last week.
    IMG_0839.JPG

    I can fully justify this, I drove No20 around Springfield Yard in Falkirk on a visit in the summer of 1975 and much more recently I drove No17 at Bo'ness when we had it on hire from Strathspey. These are for industrials, big beasts as powerful as an Austerity and I suppose therefore a Class 4 in BR terms. They also make a lovely noise. Tomorrow I intend to dry assemble the chassis to see what ABC combination will fit so I can order it. The kit comes with a foldup etch for the gearbox to fit a Mashima 1833, after the last stramash I've had enough of worms and gearboxes, so off the shelf we go. After that back to the N15.

    Regards
    Martin
     
  10. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Well I made a start separating the chassis frames and spacers from the etch and since they were eventually to be soldered in I thought to decusp as I went, god knows that's a boring job. The man or woman who invents cuspless etching gets my vote. When I came to assemble it a significant problem showed itself, the two etches are supposed to be mirror images of each other but it appeared that I had two mirrors so on one side the half etching was on the inside. All credit here to Andy Beaton who replied to my email within 40 mins explaining how the error had occurred and that a replacement was going to be sent, top class service I think. As it was for todays exercise it didn't matter.
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    It sits on some LNER tender wheels which at 4' 0" are near enough to the protoype 4' 3" and allowed cutout ABC data to see where it might fit. The one below the middle wheel looks the best although it will involve alteration to one of the frame spacers, it can be fitted to either the centre or rear axle, which actually will be a later decision. Brian Clapperton reckons three to four weeks for delivery so that works out fine. I actually achieved what I wanted to today, that's rare enough.

    I'm now going to sit down with Geoff Holt's book to discover how to do boiler/smokebox handrails without pain and vast wastage of wire.
    Regards
    Martin
     
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  11. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    There has been a substantial gap since my last post, thankfully not caused by anything nasty. One thing that has occurred due to the extra time is sorting out/tidying up and in the process I uncovered a shoe box full of collected railwayana in the study, and subsequently more rusting items in the garage, and some plans and signalling equipment in the workshop. I hadn't forgotten that I had the stuff, just that I had parked it in the furthest away filing cabinet. Since it had been stored out of sight for many years I came to the conclusion that I might as well have rid of it so a small selection went off to a specialist auction where it did remarkably well, far far better than I had anticipated. Therefore I made arrangements for all of the other stuff to be eventually sold which meant I had to do some restoration, which is why there has been little modelling. Here is a pic of some finished items,
    IMG_0878.JPG
    One surprising thing I discovered, I now find painting quite relaxing which is quite a change from my avowed intent never to touch a paint brush which in terms of domestic decorating remains intact. This quite neatly takes me back to the J36 which I now think I will paint the chassis, which Simon and Adam suggested a month ago. I have started on the N15, basically non photogenic fiddly bits although I will update progress soon. I managed to not resist buying Ressaldar's NLR tank, which is bonny, and also a Dapol terrier, all but brand new bar a test run acording to a reliable source, purely because I fired the prototype nearly 50 years ago. There we are, whats been going on chez Shaw, today we started an emergency repair to the garage, I knew it needed attention but didn't quite realise how bad it was. This is how not to hold up an RSJ. Best wishes Martin.
    IMG_0885.JPG
     
    Last edited: 25 August 2020
  12. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    Oooh. Acrow time?

    Atb
    Simon
     
  13. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Acrows indeed Simon, and a seemingly vast quantity of new timber for fascias, soffits, etc. Ideally the whole of the front and rear walls should be demolished and rebuilt and I found a builder who would do it properly, but he's not available until next year. I need to take some solid measures to prevent a catastrophic failure in the winter storms, it may well turn out to be sticking plaster but so be it. Who needs old houses eh.
    From a very wet and windy Glasgow.
    Martin
     
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  14. Dog Star

    Dog Star Western Thunderer

    Interesting, very interesting.

    I have to replace the facia and soffit all around our double garage... plus about 24" of damp proof material under the first couple of rows of tiles. Google has not been able to find any source of appropriate timber in our area. Down here it seems that everyone wants to overlay the existing facia etc with UPVC cladding - a case of sweeping under the carpet (up at eaves level).

    What are you going to order and from where?

    regards, Graham
     
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  15. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Sorry folks but this starts out about the garage.
    IMG_0889.JPG
    Acrow props on full display, the juxtaposition of the RSJs above the window and door is not at all pretty. My reckoning is that a previous owner was given two random RSJs and made the rest fit around them.
    IMG_0891.JPG
    The timber, Graham. The large section 70 by 70 and 70 by 25 came from B&Q. I find their larger section stuff not too bad although you can get some banana shaped bits if your unfortunate. The rest came from a local timber merchants, Kelvin Timber who delivered it for a modest enough fee, and are quite as good as any other in my neighbourhood. What is on display was I think £170 or so. The interesting thing about Kelvin Timber is that their yard in Milngavie is the site of the terminus of the Bennie Railplane, immortalised in my memory in a childhood book about railways, "Railway Wonders of the World" springs to mind.

    On railway matters the N15 has had its handrails fitted, barring two grab rails to go above the front steps, all of the steps made ready to fit as a last body job, and a start made on the whitemetal fittings.
    IMG_0893.JPG

    Meanwhile the 04 which I made many moons ago for some reason was lacking its jackshaft and side rods, I was maybe going to convert it to a Wisbech style tram engine. I refitted this and added sand pipes although where the brakes have got to I have no idea. As in most cases it needs some painting!
    IMG_0894.JPG
    That was today amongst the rain and wind, it's been like November here, and a rather unpleasant reminder.
    Best wishes
    Martin

    PS I've just reread Graham's post, fascias are 19 by 145, soffitts are either 12 by 125 or 145 according to how badly the roof joists were cut, one side of the garage is shorter than the other. The larger stuff and CLS is for one end fascia where the outriggers are rotten and therefore fascia fixed essentially to the sarking, and a new frame for the rear door.
     
  16. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Yesterday we finished the middle pillar, the new door frame, and painted the door, good enough for the rear of the garage.
    IMG_0898.JPG

    I then, possibly foolishly decided to have a look at the side window and corner and to my horror discovered the wood lice holding hands was all that was keeping some of it together. This morning we demolished the offending bits.
    IMG_0899.JPG
    It was horrible and so a new lintel, its hardly got hold much up so the 4" by 6" RSJ can go and because the mortar is so poor the bricks after cleaning are reusable and by the end of today the corner has been rebuilt. The mortar beds are too deep but dimension constraints apply.
    IMG_0900.JPG
    None of this was intended but I suppose it's better off being done and is why there 's not much modelling to show

    On the modelling front, one of the late Mr Swain's wagons is ready for the paintshop, only taken me a shocking 30 years to get here, but despite the age of the technology a pretty reasonable model.
    IMG_0902.JPG

    Best wishes
    Martin
     
  17. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    I promise this will be the last garage pic. Despite neither Derek nor I being bricklayers we have finished the rebuilding work that I didn't anticipate doing just now. Even if I say so it doesn't look too shabby, and it now won't fall down in the first puff of winter winds, and when all the woodwork is done and painted it will do for a few years, hopefully enough to see me.
    IMG_0903.JPG

    The N15 progresses although despite doing stuff the pile of bits seem not to diminish, the parts fairy is obviously hard at work.

    IMG_0904.JPG

    Best wishes
    Martin
     
  18. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    The N15 is almost ready for the paintshop. Most of the castings are glued in/on and just steps and Furness lubricators to add. The latter are a problem because the holes in the somkebox front go no further and they are resisting drilling out. I think they are in line with the boiler edge or something, lateral thinking reqd here. I should I suppose put lamp irons on too.
    IMG_0905.JPG

    You'll be aware that I have been clearing out kits at a rate recently, some of you have been kind enough to buy things, and in the uncovering I found a few things I wanted to keep. One of these was an ABS kit for a LSWR road van, I built one eons ago in coarse scale, really enjoyed it and wanted one for myself. It along with many other things went into a box for another day. I discovered it last night and in the box a torn page from the TV Times dated Sept 1998, hmm. It seemed an ideal project whilst I fiddled around with the loco, so the contents were ordered tidily on the bench, it didn't last.
    IMG_0906.JPG
    I haven't built a whitemetal kit for a long time and I had quite forgotten how much de-flashing is needed, fortunately I have a set of cheap files just for this and a start was made. It isn't a difficult kit to build, principally five body parts and four w irons/axleboxes, floor, roof, planking, detailing, I found wheels and couplings in stock and a decision about buffers is to be made. I found an offcut of ali angle that was made into a bending jig for the step board brackets which is about the most challenging thing, getting them all the same that is, and a nice 70deg leccy glue to hold it all together. The nature of the medium makes it a lot less detailed and in some respects less tricky than an etched kit, I still reckon it will pass muster.
    Regards
    Martin
     
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  19. Peter Cross

    Peter Cross Western Thunderer

    You'll be aware that I have been clearing out kits at a rate recently, some of you have been kind enough to buy things, and in the uncovering I found a few things I wanted to keep. One of these was an ABS kit for a LSWR road van, I built one eons ago in coarse scale, really enjoyed it and wanted one for myself. It along with many other things went into a box for another day. I discovered it last night and in the box a torn page from the TV Times dated Sept 1998, hmm. It seemed an ideal project whilst I fiddled around with the loco, so the contents were ordered tidily on the bench, it didn't last.
    View attachment 129773
    I haven't built a whitemetal kit for a long time and I had quite forgotten how much de-flashing is needed, fortunately I have a set of cheap files just for this and a start was made. It isn't a difficult kit to build, principally five body parts and four w irons/axleboxes, floor, roof, planking, detailing, I found wheels and couplings in stock and a decision about buffers is to be made. I found an offcut of ali angle that was made into a bending jig for the step board brackets which is about the most challenging thing, getting them all the same that is, and a nice 70deg leccy glue to hold it all together. The nature of the medium makes it a lot less detailed and in some respects less tricky than an etched kit, I still reckon it will pass muster.
    Regards
    Martin[/QUOTE]

    I'll be interested in the build of this one I have one to do to go with my scratch built larger version.
     
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  20. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    I'm sorry the picture quality is dubious, taken in something of a rush as I was getting shouted on.
    IMG_0907.JPG
    The principal components all deflashed, is that a word, a laborious and very time consuming exercise which gave me an opportunity to consider whitemetal as a material for kits. There is no doubt that the quality of the masters and moulds is excellent, bear in mind that this is essentially a 1950s technology and like the vinyl LP , still has a part to play. For a prototype such as this or indeed virtually any LSWR van, the relief for outside framing is far more easily obtained with castings than it will ever be with etching, Frankly I wouldn't want to do this with just etchings, far too footery, it may of course be marginally less expensive to produce I suppose but at some time cost to the constructor. I do think that an etched kit will look generally crisper and is probably a good starting point but my experience of mouldering wagons of indeterminate age is that they are anything but crisp, the accumulation of crud, the knocks and bangs of hard service, disinterested railwaymen all contribute to a delightfully fuzzy around the edges look.

    The planking comes as two sheets of scribed hardwood ply which has to be cut to fit pretty small rebates so some accuracy is required. The one thing that lets ABS kits down is the buffers, drawing pins I ask you even 30 years ago, I have some Slaters buffer heads that could fit but again a fair bit of work so I might just purchase something suitable.

    The footboards are as shown a long thin casting that is I feel just too fragile, the van will inevitably be picked up and fingers will just reach the footboards, oh b*****r as they snap off, so some brass or N/S strip will substitute. The slot for the couplings are far too big unless you want the supplied whitemetal hooks, who would, so they will have to be filled with solder and redone. I also don't much like plasticard roofs, no good reason for this really, just a pet thing so N/S to the rescue. I seem to remember Rob Pulham acquired a guillotine which seems like a good idea, I think I'll investigate this. Well that's two days ish work in three paragraphs and I'm quite pleased with progress, more to come.

    Best wishes
    Martin
     
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