Sorting out the accumulated part done and not yet started things workbench

Discussion in 'Workbenches, including workshop techniques.' started by Martin Shaw, 28 March 2020.

  1. Ian@StEnochs

    Ian@StEnochs Western Thunderer

    Martin,

    I built the Wemys pug when the kit first appeared. I bought mine from Pete at one of the Hslifax shows. It was a real quickie and was built over the next weekend. I did make new steel coupling rods for it and spring all the wheels but everything else was as per the kit. I don't remember having any problems with the smoke box. My biggest compromise was to paint her black instead of the WPR lined brown.

    As for crankpins I almost always use 14BA as the nuts are much nearer scale. Only time I use 10BA is if there is a return crank or on the recessed one behind sidebars were I turn a special and lock it with a Romford nut in a recess at the back of the wheel.

    The photo is of the pug crankpin, taken on the phone so not great, sorry!

    Ian.
    20201227_135325.jpg
     
  2. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    I'm glad it's not just me then!! I think I take it one step further in that the rods have to be in steel to get right colour. As you say the commercially available ones usually end mill the fluting hence the incorrect fluting - so I end up making my own from steel and use a woodruff cutter/ flycutter to get the correct fluting profile at the end. A bit of a chore but at least I'm happy it's right - the rest of the loco may have errors and problems but at least I'm happy the rods are correct!!
     
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  3. adrian

    adrian Flying Squad

    You can always tap out a 14BA nut to 12BA! In the dim and distant past when I was helping my Dad build locos we always used to turn up cast iron wheels - crankpins were always drilled and reamed 5/64". A bit of 5/64" steel rod was spot on for threading 9BA - we then used 10BA nuts tapped out to 9BA.

    In many ways I prefer it and have done so in the past. I think the proportions of a 12BA nut is too big across flats on a 12BA thread (on the left in the photo below) and is out of proportion for a model. I do prefer a 14BA nut threaded for 12BA - on the right in the photo below.

    12ba - 1.jpeg
     
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  4. Ian@StEnochs

    Ian@StEnochs Western Thunderer

    Hi Guys,

    I think I got my numbers mixed up yesterday! It should of course be 12BA, not 14, for crankpins. What Slaters supply as standard with their wheels.

    If you want to upgrade Slaters crankpins and don’t have a lathe the S7 group produce replacements in steel with alternative nuts and collars.

    https://www.scaleseven.org.uk/index.php?id=147

     
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  5. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Thanks for the thoughts chaps.

    Ian
    As an slight aside did you build the Wemyss pug from the instructions only or have you sourced any other drawings. I think the AB records are with Glasgow Uni so if a GA exists I can get it copied, it would seem that we don't have any at Bo'ness. I like the look of the S7 components, do I need to belong to purchase? I do have a lathe but I'm not always convinced there is necessarily any benefit in making things just because you can, the capital outlay is relatively small compared to the time which is not limitless.

    Adrian
    As you and Ian will both know by far the biggest problem with machining components is the setting up and the accuracy thereof, the actual cutting is minimal. I think my comment above re spending money is applicable here. Both JPL and Premier are set up to make coupling rods at a lowish cost, by the time I have sourced material and done the rest I have spent more than that in time even if there is no actual cash element. I don't disagree re the choice of material but as in all things you set your own compromises and live with those choices.

    Coupling rods are often retained by a collar held on with a taper pin, this is watchmaking and beyond my skills, therefore the nearest to that would be an inverted bush rather than a nut of whatever size so it seems the best choice, I need to look at this in a bit more detail because it's relevant to more than just the J83.

    Thanks
    Martin
     
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  6. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    This is not S7 but seems like a decent design to me - I have no idea where I got it from (White Swan book, perhaps) but this is my go-to crankpin solution.

    Second hand Duchess

    Obviously details such as dummy collars, etc., can be added to taste, if the bushes are turned from rod. I usually use Slaters bushes, and glue 10BA studs into the wheels.

    hth
    Simon
     
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  7. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Simon
    The S7 bit isn't pertinent to my construction although apart from tyre profile everything else is relevant, and thank you for you contribution. I feel perhaps I'm going around the same circle I did when the J36 was being visited, which I wasn't altogether totally happy with. I am trying to find a satisfactory balance between time, capital outlay, and such considersations as to whether the side rods of a J83 justify one or two days on the milling machine. The answer is probably 42.

    Regards
    Martin
     
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  8. Ian@StEnochs

    Ian@StEnochs Western Thunderer


    Martin,

    I didn’t, still don’t, have any other drawings of the Wemyss pug. However I had built a few of Petes kits before and found them to be very accurate so just assumed this one would be too. I was not disappointed. I had quite a lot of photos, both in books and prints plus quite a lot of other Barclays for details. Barclays used quite a lot of ‘standard’ parts but modified them to suit the customer.

    Originally I was going to use the kit to build 1985 of 1930, the 2nd number 18 on the Waterside system known by the men as the “Coltness Gem” She came to Dunaskin, 2nd hand, from Coltness in 1955 and there is a Daliah called Coltness Gem hence the name. Daliah growing was quite a common pastime among Doon valley miners.

    It was to the same basic design as the Wemyss engines but the wheelbase was 6’9” x 7’3” and the cutout in the tank was different. I decided not to undertake the alterations and built her as the Wemyss engine.

    I think you need to be a member of the S7 group to buy except at shows perhaps.

    Ian.
     
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  9. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    Thanks for the info Ian, it seems that 1985 was really the progenitor of the 5 engines of the 1930s that were built for Wemyss and also a subsequent one in 1950 for the NCB at Comrie(Fife and Clackmannan 33) which strikes me as strange given the vast quantity of Austerity tanks kicking around. There is an irony here, at Boness we have an Austerity built new by Hunslet in 1954 for the Michael colliery, and after the fire there it went to Comrie as did the three other Austerities that the SRPS acquired. The big Barclay at Comrie was scrapped at a date unknown to me but given the long life of the Wemyss engines I wonder why, they seem to have worked well enough.

    I have one or two dahlias in the garden, one called Coltness Gem could win me quite a lot of brownie points because Mrs S hails from that part of the world (New Stevenson) and attended Coltness High where I gather she was the dux. I'll keep that in mind for a need to extricate myself from a hole.

    I have investigated the S7 situation and you do need to be a member to utilise their stores, seems very reasonable but a tad expensive for 6 crankpins, looks like I'll have to make some.
    Best wishes
    Martin
     
  10. Martin Shaw

    Martin Shaw Western Thunderer

    I considered all the crankpin options and in the end the quickest was to use 10BA screws and inverted bushes, so the bushes were held in a collett and tapped, then reversed onto the sacrificial mandrel and faced to length, using a scrap piece as a go/nogo gauge. The wheels had been removed from the packaging some while ago and had one or two slight touches of surface rust which came off with a bit of Scotchbrite, so the screws were fitted. I thought I might have trashed one of them but it seems ok now the glue has hardened.

    The frame is perfectly ordinary, four spacers, top edges soldered with some multicore, and vertical edges with 145, and as a matter of interest I have reverted to using powerflow for flux, I was finding that the fumes from phos acid were irritating my throat. Having used my Hobby Holidays jig for the first time in anger I was pleasantly pleased when with the rods on it all ran up and down the test track with the merest hint of a bind at one position on one rod, nothing beyond a normal fitting job so I can progress the rest of the chassis without qualms. The rod bushes are temporarily on back to front as it's easier on the fingers, I will have to consider how I might handle this if the arthritics worsten.

    This is all run of the mill but it is nice when it all works. The temperature in the last three days has constantly been below freezing so the workshop is rather too chilly until mid afternoon, by which time the enthusiasm is sapping so not as much progress as I would have hoped.

    Regards
    Martin
    IMG_1062.JPG
     
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  11. Ian@StEnochs

    Ian@StEnochs Western Thunderer

    Martin,

    We have been leaving some of the Daliahs in the ground over winter in recent years. However last year my wife lifted them all in late November. Good job as we are having hard frost for the first time for ages and we are at sea level on the west coast.

    My workshop is really a study which opens onto the living room so always warm. If I leave the door open I can hear the tv but my ever tolerant wife complains about the swarf on the carpet.
    I too have reverted to Powerflo flux. I tried the phosphoric acid again but the fumes do irritate. Also I always found it difficult the get the right amount on the joint. A brush puts too much, a stick not enough! I find that a syringe,with a long brass needle, is ideal for putting just the right amount of Powerflo exactly where required works best.

    Ian.
     
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  12. paratom

    paratom Western Thunderer

    I have recently been accessing my stock of un built kits that I have amassed over the years and decided that it would be nice to have them completed rather than leave them as an inheritence. The problem with having amassed a large collection over the years is you find the first kits you bought don’t cut the mustard these days and you have no desier to build them. Take the two kits I found languishing in my Alladin’s Cave of kits, they are clearly earmarked for the kit museum at the Historical Model Railway Society.
     

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  13. simond

    simond Western Thunderer

    I have no doubt that there will be modellers wringing their hands to hear such blasphemy...

    the trick is to find them, and exchange your treasures for whatever medium floats your boat. There is a “Deliberately Old-Fashioned 0 Scale” thread on RMWeb, you might find some interest there, though they tend to coarse scale.

    hth
    Simon
     
  14. Allen M

    Allen M Western Thunderer

    Looking at that brake van reminds me. I had the book "Cardboard rolling stick and how to build it" by E R Grey. I only used a very few of the prints but it got me going into building & modifying and to where I am today.
    In the mid 1960s I also visited his railway layout that was open to the public in/near Bournemouth.
    Regards
    Allen Morgan