Scattergun The power behind the ...

[Heather Kay]

I have a build that might make it onto the workbench during the summer. It's a commission to build the slightly-less-famous nearly-but-not-quite identical twin to the LMS pioneer diesel 10000.

The kit is JLTRT, obviously, and will be pretty stock, fine scale O, single power bogie, finished in the black and silver livery the locos wore just after BR finally expunged the large LMS lettering from the older twin. The thing is there's a deal of empty space inside the body where the English Electric 16SVT, electrical and control gear ought to be, and there are some fairly large windows that let that emptiness show.

Many years ago, I hacked about a bit of softwood, glued some scrap box bits and pieces on it, slapped some grey paint about and it served. For this build, I'd like to do something a little more high tech. So...

Does anyone know of a suitable kit for a marine-type Diesel engine? Or does anyone know where I can get reasonably accurate drawings of the EE unit so that perhaps a 3D print might be made?

It's a long shot, but if anyone knows I figured the knowledgeable people here might.

 

[Dikitriki]

Steve Beatty produced a resin kit for 10000's power plant. It was as bad as any other of his resin castings, and very expensive for the quality, so I put it back.

However, if you can find any images, it might give you an idea, and besides which, Id put one in mine if you come up with something.

Richard

 

[Pugsley]

I can't help with drawings, but here are a selection of images you may find useful. The container one is a 12CSVT, but that will help you gauge the width (they're of very similar designs), as will the ones taken at the GWR.

16SVT:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/24352521@N06/7147562409
https://www.flickr.com/photos/46994702@N04/5229071636

12CSVT:
http://www.european-diesels.co.uk/assets/12CSVT-secured-in-container.jpg
http://www.sharpos-world.co.uk/cpg/...s/2013/std-pres/gwsr-diesel-gala/CGN03256.JPG
https://www.flickr.com/photos/41696450@N03/9385393696/
http://www.railtasmania.com/photogal/showimage.php?id=565

You may want to do an image search on 16CSVT (Class 50) engines, as again they are of an essentially similar design.

HTH

 

[Heather Kay]

Coo, ta. I think a bit of armchair research is in order.

 

[Heather Kay]

Of course, I forgot the Wild Swan LMS loco profile book has a reasonably scaled elevation, plan and cross sections that give a good idea of the size of the engine.

All I need now is a whizz with the CAD to help draw up something reasonable...

 

[Overseer]

Heather,
Not strictly what you are looking for but these may be of interest. The English Electric order number for the two LMS mainline locos was 6T0566.

In this-

we find





and also this, 12 cylinder rather than 16 (a 12CSVT?) which might help with detailing the interior of the engine.


Sorry about the quality but the book was too big to fit on the scanner so it was photographed in a bit of a rush while I had it on loan. Not sure of the date but appears to be later 1950s "and deals with some 470 diesel-electric equipments operating in 11 different countries and in 4 continents, ranging from the Arctic to the Tropics, and manufactured for 22 different customers and to 55 separate orders."

 

[Heather Kay]

Frazer, that's fascinating. Thanks for posting it.

Having slept on things, I've come up with a sort of plan of action. I'll spend a while gathering information and reference images. I'll try and work out the scale of the power unit and generator gear from what I have here, and possibly see if I can go measure a real one at some point.

I shall also build up the loco body temporarily to measure the available space, because some lateral compression may be required on the engine itself.

My other thought was to develop a kit of parts that build into the V12 variant, with an extra block of four cylinders that can be attached to stretch it to the V16. I have to remember that at best all anyone will see through the typical diesel porthole window will be a vague shape, so I'll have to try and keep the inner detail freak reined in a bit.

Unless, of course, there's a market for a super accurate model of a diesel power plant for workshop dioramas...

 

[Steph Dale]

Heather,
You don't have to limit yourself to the LMS twins for research. What were effectively the same power plant was also used in classes 40, 50 and, IIRC, 47/6 and 56.
Steph

 

[Heather Kay]

You're correct, Steph. I just have a lot of material to hand about the twins, so that's where I will start.

 

[flexible_coupling]

Well this has dragged in my interest! Got a feeling the 12 or 16 made its way to a good number of Queensland (Australia) locos and similar worldwide exports...... my reference book is in storage though unfortunately!

 

[SimonT]

Heather,
do you have a drawing of the traction engine or is it of the complete engine?

Simon

 

[djparkins]

All I need now is a whizz with the CAD to help draw up something reasonable...

Or you could make the parts - in the good old tradition of pattern making!

 

[Heather Kay]

Or you could make the parts - in the good old tradition of pattern making!

Not a bad idea. For a one-off, it is really the way I would go. I would normally have been happy to bodge about with bits of balsa and styrene to get the rough shape.

Thing is, there are at least two voices that have been raised now, interested in something that looks like a diesel power plant. Who knows if this might not be something that could prove popular to a wider audience?

 

[Heather Kay]

do you have a drawing of the traction engine or is it of the complete engine?

I have outlines of the engine and ancillary equipment In place within the body shell of 10000. This will let me work out the basic dimensions. Other details will have to guesstimated from photographs.

Initially, once I dig my scanner out from the pile of paper it's hiding in, is to scan the drawings I have and produce a simple outline with basic dimensions marked up for 7mm scale. Once I have that with the available space in the body shell, I will have a better clue of what I want to achieve.

 

[Steph Dale]

Heather,
Thinking about it I've got a set of sectional drawings of some BR diesels at home. I'll see what I can dig out this evening...
Steph

 

[Dog Star]

Heather,

This is a very interesting discussion and one which I shall follow particularly if the end result is a "kit" of parts for other EE bogie diesels... there is a possible niggle which stops me committing to any "product" and that is space.

In another thread I have written about the efforts to incorporate a sound decoder and speaker, plus control circuits for lighting, into a JLTRT Cl37. The engine has two ABC motor bogies so that eats into the body space between cab bulkheads. The two decoders and speaker are mounted horizontal and take up about 60% of the remaining floor space. If there is a reasonable representation of the prime mover coupled to the main generator then fitting of the requisite DCC parts is likely to be a challenge for me.

I think that there is a market for kits of motive power units... easy to see for the DC market, more difficult for the DCC users (and especially so for those who have a prediliction for twin Maybachs (and two sound decoders / speakers).

regards, Graham

 

[SimonT]

I think the answer is in what one can see through the window. A fully modeled engine implies that everything else is fully modeled. what if the view through the window appears to show an engine room full of prime mover? The bottom third of the engine/generator will be hidden from view and offers space for chips although a further compromise might be needed for the big speakers we prefer to fit.

Might be worth a chat on Saturday.

 

[Heather Kay]

Might be worth a chat on Saturday.

Very much so. I am in no doubt there would be no need to model the entire engine room. Many locos had quite small windows along the sides, and some - classes 44, 45, 46 for example - had none. My aim is to try and provide something that resembles what one would see of an engine through a window aperture, with or without internal lighting.

 

[Dikitriki]

Heather, are you aware of the publication 'LMS review'?

No 1 has an 8 page essay by David Hunt on the twins, with the last 2 pages being on a 7mm scale model from a JLTRT kit, with opening roof panels and full engine detail modelled by Adrian Ford. It looks fab, and enough of the detail is visible through the windows to make it worthwhile.

As an aside, and the principal reason I bought the Review, there is a 25 page article on the LMS 3500 gallon tender. So no excuses for getting that wrong!

Cheers

Richard

 

[SimonT]

The first passer-by is now volunteered to run the new little layout!