Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[mickoo]

Brian,

The EMU's are not so bland, they're class 313, the first of a new generation of EMU's built by BREL....when we still had a rail industry.

What makes the 313 unique is that they were at that time....and for some considerable time after......the only dual powered EMU's.

They were designed and brought into service for the new Kings X /Moorgate 1976 electrification, as such they ran on OHL 25KV in the outer suburbs but ran on 750V DC third rail down the tube to Moorgate, the change over being West Drayton. They later found use on the NLL when the old 501 'Prison stock' was withdrawn.

Later variations were :-

314 for Glasgows suburban lines 25Kv
315 for the GEML 25 Kv
507 Liverpool and the Wirral 750 DC
508 Southern Region 750 DC

The 313 design had a spec for mail traffic as well, as such the floor had to be near platform height and the double doors wide enough to take PO brutes, the aisles between the seats were also designed for these brutes as well. Mid mornings would see a raft of them sending empty brutes back to Stevenage as well as night runs will full brutes both ways.

Addendum, crossed post with Dave

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

What makes the 313 unique is that they were at that time....and for some considerable time after......the only dual powered EMU's.

It was 11 years later in 1987 the dual voltage class 319 units appeared for the Bedford - Southern Region Thameslink services via the re-opened Holborn Snow Hill tunnel.

 

[mickoo]

It was 11 years later in 1987 the dual voltage class 319 units appeared for the Bedford - Southern Region Thameslink services via the re-opened Holborn Snow Hill tunnel.

Commonly know as 'Bed Pans' I seem to recall

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Commonly know as 'Bed Pans' I seem to recall

I think this actually applied to the 1981/2 built class 317 25kV units used between Bedford and St Pancras/Moorgate until displaced by the Thameslink 319s in 1987.

 

[oldravendale]

Thank you, Dave and Mick, for educating me about the Class 313 EMUs. Technologically superior for sure, but boring..... (says he, ducking for cover). Nevertheless an historic subject in their own right now.

Adam - I simply didn't recognise that as a Bogie B. I should have - there are two in the stash waiting for the right weather or something for me to start work on them.

Mick - thanks for clarifying Deltics and the white cab surrounds.

For today some more "modern" images, and this time Clapham Transport Museum which closed in 1973 - that's most of a lifetime ago! Although these photos are undated we can take a stab at the early '70s. These exhibits are all well known, so I'm not adding any commentary. Please shout out, though, if there's anything here you don't recognise. We'll certainly have chapter and verse on it somewhere.



Brian

 

[mickoo]

Frazer - There are more coincidental Siphons in future photos. Quite when they'll come up is anyone's guess! At the moment I'm trying to improve a truly disastrous set of photos which appear to have come off the developing spiral (Tim often did his own developing) apart from being very underexposed. As a result they look as though they've been bunged in with other negs but unprotected so they have considerable physical damage and ungrained dirt. In many respects it's fortunate they were not simply destroyed as the first has proven to be eminently recoverable. I've dealt with the first - a rather nice photo of a Royal Scot at Willesden - but it's taken best part of four evenings while sat in front of the TV (nothing to see here, sir).

Dave - I simply could not have requested a better description. It builds up a complete picture in my mind's eye. Tim's full description for this series of photos is "Edgware Road, Paddington 17th July 1977 Hornsey 25th August 1977" and the reason for the Edgware Road bit of the description is now apparent. I also remember the visit to LT Acton really well - what a fantastic day out that was - but as you had me on leading reins I must admit to being less than totally concerned about my precise location. The bacon roll and coffee were very good, though.....

For today the last of the Paddington and the first of the Hornsey photos.

First an unidentified HST leaving Paddington - unless someone can work out the identity from the coach number. Frankly I don't know whether that's even possible!

View attachment 141245

Here's a pair of HSTs at Paddington. Clearly the nearest is W43034 - it may even be the vehicle in the photo above - although that doesn't help me to identify the set number.

View attachment 141246

Finally this rather nice one of Paddington from outside the station. Unidentified HST and two Class 50s in attendance. The train spotters and parcels trolleys make this the complete picture.

View attachment 141247

And so to Hornsey, Tim's home turf. These are dated 25th August 1977. I read this as 47410 - hopefully Mickoo will put that right if I'm misreading it. Tim's son, Richard, and a friend look on. If 47410 is correct, then it was previously D1509 a local Finsbury Park loco in 1977 and from where it was withdrawn in June 1987 going to Vic Berry at Leicester where it was scrapped at the beginning of February 1990.

I'll have to rescan this photo as, when checking for the loco ID I've noticed that there are Newtons Rings apparent.
View attachment 141243

Finally for today, a Deltic. I had no interest in these until I was converted one day on a still and frosty early morning at Stevenage awaiting a train to Leeds where I was working for the day. I heard what I thought was a helicopter getting closer and closer and this Deltic hammered through on a sleeper. I've loved that noise ever since.

However, I digress.

I read this as 55001, once D9001 and named in typical East Coast style St Paddy. This was also a Finsbury Park loco and was withdrawn at the beginning of January 1980 (so long ago? I feel really old!) and was scrapped at Doncaster in the following February.


View attachment 141244

Brian

Some right proper photos there, just a few years before I got into serious spotting so all very apt.

Regarding HST's yes you can determine the power car at that date. When built they ran as DMU's and were kept as a constant rake with set coaches,k this remained until around the 80's when things started to get mixed up. Certainly all my early Peterborough memories and spotting days of the then new 254 class had fixed rakes, but, I think the WR had begun mixing them up at around the same time.

Anyway, given the date of 1977 then coach W42062 was assigned to set 253 020 which makes the country end power car 43041. Set #20 was still a fixed rake in 79 but notes show other sets had begun to be mixed up with odd coaches here and there.

One other nice feature is that all the HST are pre exhaust deflector modifications, it readily became apparent that when trailing the smoke was being pulled down and across the windscreen creating a dreadful mess, it also clung to the roof when leading. It wasn't much of an issue at 100 mph which all sets were restricted to in the early days, but at 125 mph it got worse.

The solution was a cover over the exhausts with a steel sheet plate but with clearance underneath, this created a boundary layer and eventually resolved (almost completely) the smoke issue. The smoke really wasn't the main issue when trailing, it was all the crap in it which clung and stuck to the windscreens making them a smeary oily mess, everyone remembers the early days with platform ends and buckets of soapy water to clean screens, mostly at terminus stations. A lot of it was bugs but smoke stains were a real pain on HST's



Swansea, date around 79-80, exhaust plate fitted but you can still see some smoke staining being pulled down over the roof.

Another modification around the same time, new on ECML units I think but trialed and retrofitted on WR was the lip below the windscreen, not sure of the exact reason for this but I'm going to guess it was also an aid to keeping the windscreen clean, in trailing mode it'll break up the airflow and create vorticies which might lift smoke off the screen, in leading it'll do the same and divert air off the screen which might help with bug spattering.



ECML around 80-81, I wish I'd kept better notes!

Exhaust plate on roof and windscreen lip fitted.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Another modification around the same time, new on ECML units I think but trialed and retrofitted on WR was the lip below the windscreen, not sure of the exact reason for this but I'm going to guess it was also an aid to keeping the windscreen clean, in trailing mode it'll break up the airflow and create vorticies which might lift smoke off the screen, in leading it'll do the same and divert air off the screen which might help with bug spattering.

It would also deflect the water which would otherwise be forced up the windscreen when leading. Interesting as my photo taken at York in the late 70s/early 80s does not show this strip below the windscreen but does show the exhaust plate.

Your photo does not show the set number on the lower nose which were removed when power cars started moving between sets.

 

[Keith Phillips]

The lip below the windscreen on the HST was a wind deflector. It did help a little to deflect bugs though not very much in my experience but the main reason was to get the wiper to stay in contact with the screen at speed and also to get the water jets, which are attached to the wiper arm, to deposit the screen wash on the screen and not straight over the roof.

As an aside has anyone noticed that there seem to be fewer bugs splattering on windscreens these days generally? I have noticed this on my car and the trains. I remember the front of the vehicle being covered at the end of a journey.

All the best,

Keith

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

On the trains I suspect it's the fact the front ends are no longer shaped like bricks and they appear to be washed more often in the depots. As for cars - given the weight of traffic today I don't think you can go fast enough to splatter the bugs - It's more than likely they'll outrun (outfly?) you.

 

[PhilH]

Brian,
I think the last three images said to be at Clapham were actually taken at York, i.e the old York Museum. Compare with my photos of GLADSTONE and GNR No.1 taken in 1960

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[simond]

On the trains I suspect it's the fact the front ends are no longer shaped like bricks and they appear to be washed more often in the depots. As for cars - given the weight of traffic today I don't think you can go fast enough to splatter the bugs - It's more than likely they'll outrun (outfly?) you.

not according to this...

Car ‘splatometer’ tests reveal huge decline in number of insects

ATB
Simon

 

[mickoo]

The lip below the windscreen on the HST was a wind deflector. It did help a little to deflect bugs though not very much in my experience but the main reason was to get the wiper to stay in contact with the screen at speed and also to get the water jets, which are attached to the wiper arm, to deposit the screen wash on the screen and not straight over the roof.

As an aside has anyone noticed that there seem to be fewer bugs splattering on windscreens these days generally? I have noticed this on my car and the trains. I remember the front of the vehicle being covered at the end of a journey.

All the best,

Keith

Thanks for that extra info, every days a school day

 

[mickoo]

It would also deflect the water which would otherwise be forced up the windscreen when leading. Interesting as my photo taken at York in the late 70s/early 80s does not show this strip below the windscreen but does show the exhaust plate.

Your photo does not show the set number on the lower nose which were removed when power cars started moving between sets.

View attachment 141627

Now there's a thing, I thought the ECML units came with the windscreen lip...it would appear not

Dang I miss the HST, loved the Deltics, but the HST was a worthy successor in my mind.

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

I've noticed the set number of your photo at Swansea, 253 002 and mine at York is 254 002.... spooky

 

[Keith Phillips]

On the trains I suspect it's the fact the front ends are no longer shaped like bricks and they appear to be washed more often in the depots. As for cars - given the weight of traffic today I don't think you can go fast enough to splatter the bugs - It's more than likely they'll outrun (outfly?) you.

Ah, but I'm talking about the same traction, HST's, over a decade or so of driving. Cars are shaped a bit different though. It was a question posed to me at Paddington one day and it got me thinking

 

[oldravendale]

Mick, Dave and Keith. Fabulous stuff to go with the HST pictures, none of which I knew. Having said that I was/am very fond of HSTs, particularly with the original engines.

And Simon - I was aware of the concern over the decline in insect numbers but had no idea it was quite so severe. We're doing our bit here at Dale Towers with lots of insect friendly flowers and a small wildlife pond. Sadly we have insufficient garden to give any of it over to meadow but the churchyard at the rear of our property was left for several months between mows last year and there were a lot of wild flowers. At the time I commented to the Parish Council in writing how delightful it was to see so many wild flowers and insects. Unimproved grassland, of course. Unfortunately many of the local residents complained that it looked untidy and this year it's being mown to within an inch of its life. Very sad.

Phil. Thank you. I hang my head in shame. I was well aware that those last three images were at the original York Museum but Tim's image description never triggered the correct memory synapses. Sackcloth and ashes will be worn! At the moment all these photos retain their original descriptions so that I can locate them easily if reprints are needed. It is my intention to correct descriptions where known to be incorrect when I get to the stage of finally creating a file and storage system. That remains a while away as I've just uncovered another 20 films - that's 720 images - plus some more box camera negs Tim has just located and sent to me, so probably another thousand or so still to go.

For today the last of the museum photos, and a bit of a mixed bag. Many of these were overlapping caused by the film being improperly wound through the camera, hence the strange format of some. This time it's back to Ireland so the comments I make are generally from my own research. Once again any comments to correct my interpretations will be valued. These are all identified as "Ulster Transport Museum" but undated. Having reviewed a number of available photos I have to say that it's a museum which appears to be well thought out and one I'll be visiting if I ever have the opportunity.

I believe this first one to be BCDR (Belfast and County Down Railway) No 30, a 5ft 3in gauge 4-4-2T of 1901 built by Beyer Peacock. It's apparently the last BCDR loco in existence.



This one is NCC (Northern Counties Committee) 5ft 3in gauge Class U2 4-4-0 No 73, Dunluce Castle of 1924. The NCC was grouped with the Midland Railway and then the LMS which influence can be seen in many of the locos, some of which Tim photographed and will appear somewhat later.



This is 3 ft gauge 1884 4-4-0T No 2 Kathleen by Robert Stephenson and Company and owned by the the CLR, Cavan and Leitrim Railway.



Here's a gratuitous fire engine, included for no better reason that it's within the same set of photos.



I reckon this is "Kathleen" again. I've not found it possible to identify the vehicle behind the loco.



Finally Belfast and Northern Counties Railway (Portstewart Tramway Company) Locomotive No 2. It's a 3ft gauge, vertical boiler 0-4-0T built by Kitson in 1883. The BNCR also became part of the MR and then the LMS and was closed in 1926.

I believe the vehicle behind is 3 ft gauge County Donegal Railways Joint Committee Petrol Railcar No 1 of 1905 nicknamed The Pup. It was built by Allday and Onions in Birmingham at a cost of £237.



Brian

 

[simond]

Might be my eyesight, but the BCDR 4-4-0 looks like a 4-4-2 to me...

and on the insect front, on a run up to Sandwich this evening after work, I got the first splat of the season on my helmet.

Atb
Simon

 

[oldravendale]

You found my deliberate mistake! It's a 4-4-2T, Simon.

Sorry - I failed to transpose the info from my source correctly. I've now corrected the original post.

Much appreciate you taking the trouble, and for reading my burbles.

As for insects - we have plenty here, including several varieties of butterflies, but I don't know whether numbers are fewer than previous years. Numbers will increase anyway as the weather warms. One we've not seen for a few years is the May bug, though. Maybe that's an indicator. We'll know after next month.

B

 

[Overseer]

Brian,
The photos were taken before the collection moved to Cultra, a little out of Belfast on the ex BCDR line. It is well worth visiting and easier to photograph without columns in the way. Actually, these photos may be quite rare as the conditions in the original museum seem to have been too much of a challenge for most amateur photographers.

 

[Deano747]

You worry about insect splats?! We worry about stray kid splats!!



Regards, Rob.