What Motive power would be found on a fictional 1920's Cornish branch

Marc Dobson

Western Thunderer
I'm not GWR expert and I have an idea for a fictional Cornish branch line terminus. So my question is this for a date 1918-1925 what would be appreciated loco? Also would passenger services be auto coach/steam railcar operated or would it be loco and coaches?
I'm not sure what scale I'm looking at yet.
Marc
 

JasonBz

Western Thunderer
I think it depends on how you define what is a Cornish branch line.
The lines to St Ives, Helston, Fowey (from Lostwithiel) and Bodmin are the ones that would pass my criteria for being a traditional style branch, and each one of them was very different.

Still, saying that, a "Metro Tank" 2-4-0 seems to appear most places at some point.
 

Lyndhurstman

Western Thunderer
Hello Marc
I have a copy of "The Great Western Railway in East Cornwall" by Alan Bennett (no; not THAT one!) It has sections on Saltash to Lostwithiel, Saltash to St Germans, Caradon to Looe, Coombe Junction to Liskeard, Liskeard to Looe, and Bodmin Road and Wadebridge. I undertand there are similar volumes (Runpast Press Publishers) for Mid- and West Cornwall.

While the East Cornwall volume does not have the branch line focus (I bought it for the Looe-Moorswater-Caradon interest) , it may well provide some info. I can look this evening.

Cheers

Jan
 

Phil O

Western Thunderer
45xx were used on the Looe, Bodmin and St Ives branches. I think they also worked the Chacewater, St Agnes, Perranporth route to Newquay route. Auto trains ran the Lostwithiel, Fowey to Par route, whilst a 42xx was known to have worked Par/ St Blazey China clay trains to Fowey docks. I can't remember what worked the other branch lines, although most of the China clay lines were worked by various 0-6-0 tank engines. The Newquay line saw Castle and Hall classes in the summer.

As has been said above, there are probably a variety of books and magazine articles that hold the information required. There are any number of photo books covering the post war period.
 

Richard

Active Member
Before replying I had a quick nose through the Great Western Archive.

Information here on the smaller 0-4-2 and 0-6-0 tank locos, is non existant, as it only covers the 14/58xx and the 'standard' classes from 57xx onward. I'm sure it is available from other sources.

The info on the small prairies does give shed allocations in 1922.

In that range, you're probably looking at both the 44xx and 45xx which were used in both Devon and Cornwall in the time frame you are looking at.

The 4575 variant only coming into service from 1927.
 

Graham Bustin

Active Member
I am not an expert on Cornish lines. Can I ask you to have a look at 850 and 2021, in both Saddle and Pannier Tank form. Have you had a look at the Russell book on G.W.R. Absorbed locomotives?

Graham
 

Wagonman

Western Thunderer
The small prairie tanks were perhaps the commonest, working the St Ives, Kingsbridge, Bodmin, Newquay, Looe, Falmouth and sometimes the Helston branches. The Fowey to Lostwithiel branch was usually an auto working – not sure of the Fowey to St Blazey passenger trains.
 

Bulldog3444

Member
Marc
It would be remiss of me not to refer you to my book on 1921 GWR Locomotive Allocations, published as long ago as 1984 by Wild Swan (and presumably long since out of print). I was subsequently responsible for a similar publication for 1934.

1921 loco allocations book.jpg

This gives the allocation by class of each locomotive at the start of 1921, and also lists the allocation at each shed on that date.

So for Cornwall, the allocations at each branchline shed were as follows:-
St Ives 4408 (44xx class)
Helston 1158 (517 class), 4403 (44xx)
Newquay 530 (517 class)
Moorswater 13 (unique 4-4-0ST), 1956 (19xx 0-6-0T)
Bodmin 2074, 2118 (2021 class 0-6-0T)
Launceston 4547 (45xx)

And at the "mainline" sheds:-
Penzance - 14 locos including 1 517 class, 1 850 class 0-6-0T, 1 Buffalo 0-6-0T, 1 44xx prairie and 10 tender locos (including a 26xx, a Duke, 2 43xx and 6 Bulldogs)
Truro - 20 locos including 2 517 class, 5 0-6-0 tanks, 1 steam railmotor and 12 tender locos (8 Dukes, 3 Bulldogs, 1 43xx)
St Blazey 25 locos including 17 0-6-0 tanks of various classes, 7 45xx prairies and 1 26xx.

The question you posed is of a general nature, so the above gives you a range of possibilities to choose, but I would caution that there is no such thing as a 'typical' branch line, in Cornwall or anywhere else.

There was to an extent to the logic behind the selection of a railway company of what locomotives to use on a particular line - governed by factors such as they type of traffic on offer, the ruling gradient of the line, etc. For example, St Blazey had lots of 0-6-0 tanks as it provided motive power for the area of clay extraction, while Helston and Newquay had 517 class 0-4-2 tanks which could deal with lightly loaded passenger trains. At this period it is unlikely that these trains were operated using autotrailers.

Another point to note is that the loco allocations changed over time, as older locomotives were withdrawn and newer ones introduced. It is notable that in 1921 the 45xx prairie tanks were almost all allocated to St Blazey, and presumably did mainly freight work. By the late 1920s futher batches of 45xx had been constructed and it is likely that they were also working at some of the branch line sheds, having replaced the 517 class locos.

Finally, of course, if it is a fictional branch line then it's your railway, so you can run what you choose!

Hope that helps,
Ian
 

Marc Dobson

Western Thunderer
Just taken delivery of the 1921 loco allocation book. Had a flick through and I noticed that a number of dean goods locos were allocated to Barrow in Furness for repair. Were these ex ROD locos or had they been loaned to the Furness?
 

WM183

Western Thunderer
Old 850 and 2021 class tanks, small prairies, Dukes, Bulldogs, 517s... sounds like bliss! Very cool choice of region and period!
 
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