Refining Slater's Wheels

[Steph Dale]

I do...and I've worked out that I'd replace the back of the crank pin boss with some black plastic card.

Actually that's not necessary. Effectively all that I'm doing is reducing the width of the wheel (other than the tyre and centre bush) to closer dimensions. So you don't need to build up the boss again - it may even end up looking a little strange if you did.

I'm about to 'do' the driving wheels for the E1 and will post back here for you to make your own mind up.

Steph

 

[Steph Dale]

Graham,

Okay, I think you've got a point (sorry, sorry ), so I'll investigate what I have at my disposal. There's some diamond slitting discs here, I wonder how fine they are...

Richard,

One E1 driving wheel is now done. Actually, it's a MR 999 class driver I think - not quite right for the South Eastern, but close enough. I made a quick stand for it to sit on under the whirling Dremel. The critical dimensions are the rod in the middle, which is 1/8" and the clearance space left between the 0.040" square 'spokes' for the crank to clear:

In use it looks like this:


Here's a quick comparison of the crank boss from front and rear. The main thing I note is that it's much easier to clean up the two chunks of flash where there's been a mishap when the die was cut:



Anyway, 'tis all for now; more tomorrow.

Steph

 

[JimG]

Jim,

Yeah - but it now raises another issue. How to run a wire from rim to hub for split axle pickup without it being seen...

Steph,

I would consider cutting a wee bit more out of the back of one spoke then sit the wire on that spoke - maybe with some filler round the wire to smooth off to an oval shape if it looks as though it might be necessary. Use copper wire which can be moulded easily from back of flange then on to spoke back then back out onto brass centre. Put saw cuts on flange and boss to accept wire and solder it into cuts and smooth off.

Jim.

 

[Steph Dale]

Right, sussed it...

All that was actually required to 'short' the wheels was a slight change to my existing technique. Y'see I'd normally cut the groove up the back of the spoke and notches in the hub/flange in one shot using a carborundum slitting disc in the minidrill. This is mainly an expediancy.

So, time for a think. What else could I do, other than use a slitting disc? Thanks to both Jim and Graham for ideas. In the end I came up with this:


Known invariably as an Olfa cutter, Tamiya cutter, scrawker, laminate cutter, plastic scriber, etc, etc. I have a couple of them in my tool box; the black handled (Tamiya) one is always kept clean and tidy for styrene work; this one is used more (ahem) agriculturally, to score brass or, in this case, to put a groove down the back of a spoke.

Marking out begins like this, with a blob of marker pen on the rim adjacent to your chosen spoke, and a centre pop mark on the brass bush, also in line with the chosen spoke:

The cutter is then used to slot the spoke, each end then being flared out slightly with the point of a scalpel:


The brass hub is then drilled 0.5mm on the pop mark given earlier. The hub and rim then being notched with a slitting disc in a drill:


I then formed the 26swg tinned copper wire by putting a right angle bend in one end (to go through the drilled hole in the hub) and then it's drawn along the spoke with a suitable implement (I used a small screwdriver). Then the end it joins the rim is tinned with 'electrical' solder (in my case a good old cored tin/lead eutectic):


Thread the wire back into the boss. I hate soldering this joint so now use a 'cold weld'; leave around 0.5 - 0.75 of the wire proud of the hub when you trim the wire. Support the boss and then use a parallel punch and hammer to knock back the copper wire until it's flush with the front face of the hub, this will cause the wire to barrel out and jam itself in the hole. This shot shows the hub with the wire cut off, but before it's fixed:


After fixing it in the hub it can be soldered into the rim. Use plenty of flux and a hot iron so you can get in, make the joint, and out again as quickly as possible:


And that's pretty much it other than trimming up the wire at the rim.

Any good?

Steph

 

[Rob Pulham]

Hi Steph,

I do something similar even down to using the Olfa cutter - and I don't go anywhere near any of it with a slitting disk. The only thing I don't do is drill right through to the front of the boss. Why do you go right through?

 

[Steph Dale]

Hi Steph,

I do something similar even down to using the Olfa cutter - and I don't go anywhere near any of it with a slitting disk. The only thing I don't do is drill right through to the front of the boss. Why do you go right through?

Rob,

It is simply so that I can do my cold welding trick and don't have to solder into the hub and risk moving it!

How do you notch the hub and rim to take the wire if you don't use a slitting disc?

Steph

 

[Rob Pulham]

How do you notch the hub and rim to take the wire if you don't use a slitting disc?

I have a crude but effective method - I drill it quite close to the rim and then I have the bit from a small (jewellers type) screwdriver that I use as a mini chisel to make the groove.

 

[alcazar]

I think I may have missed it, but if so, can I ask: how would the wheels be fitted into a lathe to do the job? Using the Slater's axle? Or ....?

 

[JimG]

I think I may have missed it, but if so, can I ask: how would the wheels be fitted into a lathe to do the job? Using the Slater's axle? Or ....?

I would grip the tyre in a three jaw with the rear of the wheel facing outwards. You're not look for absolute concentric accuracy so a reasonably good three jaw should be accurate enough. You just have to be careful of not marking the tyres too much with the jaws, or even distorting them if you grip too tightly. I've got a forty year old Burnerd three jaw in my ML10 where I can feel the amount of grip I'm applying and I've been able to grip small brass wheels in this way with no marking of the brass. But I can't say the same for the almost new three jaw in my Cowells which is so stiff to operate that there's no chance of me feeling a gentle grip on it. Maybe after forty years it will be OK.

A drill pad in the tailstock presented to the back of the wheel when tightening up will make sure that the wheel is square, with no wobbling.

Jim.

 

[28ten]

Id do as Jim suggests but using soft jaws.

 

[Dog Star]

Whenever the GER works (in the quiet quarter) does some tyre re-profiling for the GWR works (near to and far enough from Basingstoke) the first comment is often... "need some soft jaws".

 

[JimG]

Whenever the GER works (in the quiet quarter) does some tyre re-profiling for the GWR works (near to and far enough from Basingstoke) the first comment is often... "need some soft jaws".

Likewise. A quick and dirty method I have used in the past is to fold some soft alloy sheet round the standard chuck jaws to present soft faces to a piece but you would be lucky to get the accuracy of soft jaws.

Jim.

 

[Eastsidepilot]

I use soft jaws every time for these jobs, it is possible, with Slaters wheels, to reverse fit them on an axle and skimm the backs but be very careful especially with larger dia. spoked wheels. For what they cost soft jaws

Col.

 

[alcazar]

Thanks for the advice.

Out of interest, what did folk do with AGH wheels? Surely they presented the same problem?
Or did they get turned up at the rear?

 

[Eastsidepilot]

Thanks for the advice.

Out of interest, what did folk do with AGH wheels? Surely they presented the same problem?
Or did they get turned up at the rear?

Briefly with cast wheels such as AGH these were cast with a stub, you clean up the stub on the lathe by gripping the casting in the chuck, then the casting can be re chucked by the stub and the wheel faced and turned/ profiled, then re chucked in the soft jaws, face inwards and the back cleand up, drilled and bored for an axle. Should all come out nice and concentric.

Col.

 

[Steph Dale]

Thanks for the advice.

Out of interest, what did folk do with AGH wheels? Surely they presented the same problem?
Or did they get turned up at the rear?

Much as you suggest. There are multiple methods for turning up wheels. One approach which seems sensible to me is that which Raymond Walley describes here: http://www.raymondwalley.com/misc/other/wheels.html

I note that most people who turn up cast wheels don't relieve the spokes at the back to the extent I'm suggesting can be done with Slater's wheels in this thread - but that's the sort of thing that's necessary for scale section spokes...

If your German is any good, I can show you the technique I used for HO scale wheels.

Steph

 

[alcazar]

It was the relieving of the spokes at the rear with AGh I was talking about, really? Did everyone do it?

 

[Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen]

Got a question with regard to the term 'soft-jaws' for chucks. I've always been under the impression that soft jaw meant that they were made of material that hadn't been hardened and that could then be filed/machined in order to mount specific odd-shaped pieces in the lathe. Am I completely off the mark or are they really made of a material that is softer than that of cast iron or steel?
thanks
Tim

 

[Steph Dale]

Got a question with regard to the term 'soft-jaws' for chucks. I've always been under the impression that soft jaw meant that they were made of material that hadn't been hardened and that could then be filed/machined in order to mount specific odd-shaped pieces in the lathe. Am I completely off the mark or are they really made of a material that is softer than that of cast iron or steel?
thanks
Tim

Tim,

They're usually made of mild steel, rather than being hardened and ground steel. In practise this just means they can be machined...

Steph

 

[Rob Pulham]

Guy's with regards to producing S7 wheel sets, general wheel turning and producing split axles etc. I am advertising a service for this on my web site.
If you have a blank castings I can turn them up and mount them on my own split axles, telescopic and or insulated.
I can re-profile Slaters wheels to S7.
I usually take 0.012" off the back of Slaters wheels before re'profiling to S7, but you can relieve the back of the spokes as well even if the're F/S.

ATB, Col.

I hope Colin doesn't mind me using his photo but I wanted to share the supber job he has made of some Walsall wheels for my F3