7mm Dark Side Info Re-p&d Locos

mickoo

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Major mental conjugations regarding next project so an exploratory question really.

Does anyone know anything about P&D kits, their drive trains look good (though I'd prefer a shorter bogie center mast myself, and the brass Blombergs look even better, I see they do F7 kits, not sure if the kit comes with all the fittings or if they are an added expense?.

My initial thoughts are 1:32 US, but that is presenting more issues than solutions, so 7mm US is being researched, I'm not adverse to scratch built chassis and bodies and would like a GP15 or GP38 (ish style loco) but wish to use pre built drive train so P&D looks the ticket.

Any info or advice greatly appreciated, I do have some excess funds right now so might just drop for one of their F kits as a toe in the water test.

Kindest
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Mick,

As far as I know the P&D drive kit is from the Weaver Geeps. And I think you'll find that Weaver do a GP38.

Atlas stuff generally runs better and in either case you'll have to see how you get on with the wheels as the standard is not the same as UK 'Finescale' - although it's pretty close.

Have a look on eBay, I'm regularly amazed by how cheaply US-ouline 0-gauge goes for, either here or in the US.

Jordan's your man for any detailed info here; I'm sure he'll be along in a minute...

Steph
 
mickoo

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Appreciate Atlas may run better but those brass trucks look the dogs danglies! and I was thinking of making them in 1:32 anyway LOL, ohh the dilemma of it all. I did check Atlas US and P&D shipped Atlas and the price is just stupid, didn't figure on E bay. Wheels shouldn't be an issue I hope. Weaver, despite searching the web for years I' never found a Weaver site nor do I know much about them, all brass I believe, but not kits?.

The chain drive does look 'awkward' to me and if modelling a F unit might opt for a (very thin) cardan shaft drive train from the fuel tank, all possibilities being considered at the moment.

The project criteria is simple, excellent slow speed running, medium to high detailing and sound, its the sound that's the deal clincher, as much as I love UK railways and their sounds it's the 567 and 645 that does it for me, I've told the wife that if I'm ever in a coma then just play those sounds to me and I'll be up like a shot LOL.

Kindest
 
mickoo

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Yes you are, and rightly so, and pleased to read your words of wisdom too :).

Right, I had seen 'that' Weaver site but never figured it was the same Co, the brass Blombergs look far better than some stuff on there?.

Didn't know the chain drive was old and to be fair, on reflection, little different than an upended Delrin set up for the UK market which I'm not a fan off, its a pity there's no tower gear set up like Athern have in HO.

Wandering around the web this morning and refreshing my links (I've been here before a few years ago) there really does not seem to be many good RTR suppliers, Atlas is about the only one I can find right now, Railking looks dreadful and Red Caboose look to have ended production on their GP9, masters going to Atlas?.

Regarding brass trucks, only picked those because they have some 'air' to them, most RTR seems to consist of a large plastic block with side frames stuck on the side, the P&D ones do actually look more like a real Blomberg, though those huge axle mounted gearboxes do tend to spoil the effect some what LOL.

Primary task to proceed is to find a half decent Blomberg chassis, the rest may have to be scratch built and utilize after market parts.

Know what you mean about UK shipping, looking at some Diesel Era mags from the US, 12 mags for about £13, then £30 for postage, not sure about customs, actually never had to pay that before on anything from the US....must have slipped them by, lucky me!.

Ok, time to dig some more :).

Kindest
 
Pugsley

Pugsley

Western Thunderer
Jordan said:
Given your enthusiasm for brass trucks though Mick, have you seen this website - Gilmaur Models; US Brass kits made in England, that use the Weaver/P&D drive and brass trucks. I think he's been at Telford Guildex,
Click to expand...
He was at Telford either last year, or the year before, I can remember drooling over (not literally) the SW1500 he had on the stand.
 
mickoo

mickoo

Western Thunderer
:headbang: Does anyone in the UK sell US stuff, what a mindless merry go around that was, seems most people import from the US of A, if reading many varied forums is correct.

I suppose the only other way to get a decent running gear is to just buy the spares from Atlas, ie one powered and one dummy Blomberg or find a cheap GP9/ F?? and ditch the body (yes both are shorter than GP38 onwards chassis), that was going to be the plan for 1:32 with USAT spares.

I think P&D may have the GP9 masters now, or are in cahoots with Atlas as their range of GP and F units seem very close indeed.

There must be a better way to make the P&D powered Blomberg more robust and user friendly, from images I suspect its the chain driven tower that's the Achilles heel and I am begining to wonder if there is room take that out and fit a gear tower or fabricate a new etched geared tower?. To be fair tractive effort will not need to be high as it'll be primarily used for shunting so one motor bogie should suffice.

Right more web browsing required!.

Kindest
 
mickoo

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Thanks, as you say, not a lot there :(.

I researched just getting Atlas motor blocks etc, very hard to come by, not even officially, they stock 3 rail but little/ no 2 rail stuff and the one to get is the new geared tower sample from their MP15DC, but as spares that's almost impossible

Mind I did find this though http://www.ehattons.com/31027/Aristocraft_A23600_EMD_E8_diesel_locomotive_Unpainted/StockDetail.aspx which kinda throws it all back to 1:32.....or in this case 1:29!. I just cannot get over how good a value for money some of this larger stuff is, though their wheels and track leave a little to be desired for 'scale' modelling LOL.

Need to regroup and perhaps revise some criteria before deciding on what best to do.

Thanks for all the input thus far, more mileage in all this I fear in due course.

Kindest
 
ceejaydee

ceejaydee

Western Thunderer
I will confess that I have a soft spot for some of the USAT 1:29 scale items and at between £250-£300 for most of the diesel locos they seem to represent good value.
NW-2 is around £220!
They look pretty good up close too.
For USAT I'd suggest taking a look at the Dragon G Scale site (usual disclaimer)
 
mickoo

mickoo

Western Thunderer
ceejaydee said:
I will confess that I have a soft spot for some of the USAT 1:29 scale items and at between £250-£300 for most of the diesel locos they seem to represent good value.
NW-2 is around £220!
They look pretty good up close too.
For USAT I'd suggest taking a look at the Dragon G Scale site (usual disclaimer)
Click to expand...

Mmm not heard of them before, there are a few G scale stockist kicking about, quite a few at shows have stock clearances so you can get even better bargains, though I was diddled for my class 66....my own fault for not checking around before hand, it was an impulse buy and I paid a goodly price for it and could have got it cheaper by £100 or so on line. There is one stockist who always has one or two cheap G scale models, some SH, sadly they do not show them on their site, a UP SD40-2 lightly weatherd and a NS SD40-2 high nose, both less than or close to £200, the SD40-2 has been at Warely two years running, it won't be there for three!.

The only issue I have with G scale from the US is....the scale, aka 1:29, shades of OO in and HO world, can I live with that 4.7mm track error?, or use USAT power trucks for 1:32 scale scratch built.

The cheapness does result in a little of a toy result in products, they are after all designed for garden railways, not uber scale indoors layouts, but given that the basics are pretty good they do/ or will make excellent basis for super detailing etc.

I have a new puppy, Cocker spaniel, it loves to chase its tail.....I now know how it feels LOL.

Kindest
 
mickoo

mickoo

Western Thunderer
Thanks for the vid, never seen that before and it does look rather good.

I have to confess it's the size and mass that makes G scale appealing, think I'll just stump for a cheap 2nd hand model from somewhere and see where it goes, the track issue isn't too much of a hang up to be honest, if as you say, it can be replaced by fine scale as you have shown, then it really does look very nice and the models certainly look better with a little weathering and detail parts added.

I think I'm going full circle here, not a wasted exercise, I kind of view it as confirming that my initial scale choice was the more comfortable of the two.

BTW, how does one scale mass?, ie what's the correct weight for a 150t loco in 1:32/29?.

Kindest
 
ceejaydee

ceejaydee

Western Thunderer
I'll be interested to see which loco you choose Mick....

download.axd

This is not my pic but rather Supagav over on GSC forum... When stuff can look this good outside then the track gauge isn't that critical imho. Now replace that code 332 track with something lighter and you'll get a scale look to the pw too.
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Jordan said:
Not sure, tbh.... it can't be as easy as dividing the weight by the scale, can it..? 150 divided by 32 is 4.6875... is a G scale loco really meant to weigh over 4 & a half Tons..???:confused: By that measure an HO model of a 150t loco would be nearly 2 tons....!!
On the other hand two or three Geeps can manage a train of 100 cars or more; I don't think HO locos have that kind of tractive effort at all - my three Atlas Geeps lashed together can manage about 40 cars, although that is on tighter-than-scale curves; in a straight line they might manage a lot more.
Click to expand...

Jordan,

Er no - weight is a property associated with volume so a 1:29 loco's weight is weight/29^3. Or, to put it another way your 150t loco would scale at 150/(29*29*29), or 150/24389 = o.oo615t = 6.15kg.

Not too far out, I suspect. In reality I use the NMRA RP20 weights for my 0-gauge and H0 stuff: http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/pdf/rp-20_1.pdf Shame it doesn't provide any recommendations for scales larger than 0, though...

Steph
 
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