Milling Machine

[Dikitriki]

Hi,

I have today, with the assistance of some of the Heyside Gang (thanks guys), collected and set up a milling machine. Or rather, it's an engraver which I wish to use as a miller. Now, I am very much a novice, and know next to nothing about the machine or procedures, or what I need to get started, and I have no manual.

So, can anyone identify the model?
Does anyone have a manual?
I think I have a box of engraving cutters and 1 milling cutter - is that right?
What milling cutters should I get?
The stylus is V shaped. I presume I need a straight sided one to follow a pattern?
I imagine it is best to replace the drive belts - 1 is missing anyway. What sources are recommended.
I don't know what I need to know but don't, so any further pointers gratefully received.











Thanks,

Richard

 

[SteadyRed]

Many years ago I worked for a company and they had a machine like that which they used for engraving the manufacturers name & mark on to knife blades.

A template was fastened to the upper table & the work piece was fastened to the lower table. The operator followed the template, if I remember correctly the template text was approx. 1" high, finished mark & text maybe 1/4" or so, the finished engraving was very neat.

Later the machine was converted to spark etch the blades, rather than use a hard tool edge. The resulting text & mark wasn't as well defined as the mechanical etch.

Dave

 

[SteadyRed]

Taylor-Hobson CXL engraving machine

 

[JimG]

Does anyone have a manual?

Richard,

I found this on the Internet - not a large manual but probably enough to get started. I'm assuming from the plate that it's either a Model "C" or a model "M" - this manual covers Model "C"

Uphill&Son

Lathes.co.uk also have a full range of manuals but at some cost!!!

Taylor Hobson | store.lathes.co.uk

Another version of the manual here

http://machine.archives.verhey.org/files/original/8773a1aa223af8429eda3749d07bcaad.pdf

Jim.

 

[Oz7mm]

Richard

The two guys to ask among my friendss are Colin Dowling and Ken de Groome (ken's profiles). Well worth contacting either for advice on best practice.

John

 

[Susie]

Hi Richard.

Looking at the engraving cutters in the tin, it appears that the spindle will probably only accept tapered shank cutters and not regular milling cutters. You could see if Pantograph Services do an adaptor. I think they also do straight (parallel) cutters with a tapered shank, but will expect you to be able to grind them yourself. They would also be able to help with drive belts etc.

 

[unklian]

I think we might have to start an Engraving Machine Appreciation Society. Here's part of one I am disinterring from my dad's shed ...

 

[Dikitriki]

Thanks folks, keep the suggestions coming!

I have now identified it as Taylor-Hobson Model CB.

Richard

Edit. I had a chat with Pantograph Services today, and they identified it as a CB. There is a difference in the motor belt size, so just as well I spoke to them.

 

[Steph Dale]

Richard,
It's worth making friends with Pantograph Services who can provide advice on spares as well as cutters, fonts, etc.
Steph

 

[Mike W]

Pantograph Services would also be able to sell you a replacement spindle to hold milling cutters instead of the taper shank engraving tools you have. But, firstly the spindle will probably cost a lot more than you paid for the whole machine and secondly don't dismiss the engraving cutters as they work well and give a nice finish.

Mike

 

[Dikitriki]

secondly don't dismiss the engraving cutters as they work well and give a nice finish.

Mike

Hi Mike

The engraving cutters have a V tip. How do I have to adjust them to function as milling cutters? I clearly don't want bevelled edges on the work piece.

Richard

Pantograph services also suggested I used the milling cutters at first to try it out.

 

[jamiepage]

Can Pantograph Services grind the taper shank ends to order as different diameter parallel tipped (D cutter) cutters (along the lines of your 'milling cutter')? If so, that's probably all you need.

For what it's worth (and there are far more experienced people on here) -
My A series model is fitted with a 1/4 in. collet which allows me to use the parallel shank cutters, and PS definitely do grind their cutting edges to order.
They grind the tips to 2.0mm dia. for me, which I use with a follower with the end turned down to 4mm. (Not unexpectedly, I've set the arms to x2- I set them when I first had it and haven't had any need to change the ratio yet.) This does most of my work.
Beyond the 2mm/ 4mm combo., I have cutters one each, ground to end 1mm dia and 1.5mm dia, which are obviously paired with 2mm and 3mm followers to maintain the ratio.
Actually, also a pointed 'follower' which locates into reference indents on the masters, and is paired with an acute angled cutter to centre pop the workpiece.
Ah, sorry, I have one more cutter - a 100 deg. angled cutter which I use to score a workpiece at the point of bending. (The follower follows a fence suitably positioned and glued on the master.)

All use their orange collared carbide material.

The only other thing I would mention is that I took a little time initially to set up the arms against their graduated scales by cutting an accurately rectangular master and checking the piece it cut.
A little very fine adjustment on the arms was needed to generate an accurate facsimile with square corners and on dimension in both directions.

Great fun they are.
Jamie

 

[simond]

looks fab.

If I had the time, money, space...

best
Simon

 

[Dikitriki]

Can Pantograph Services grind the taper shank ends to order as different diameter parallel tipped (D cutter) cutters (along the lines of your 'milling cutter')? If so, that's probably all you need.

For what it's worth (and there are far more experienced people on here) -
>
>
A little very fine adjustment on the arms was needed to generate an accurate facsimile with square corners and on dimension in both directions.

Great fun they are.
Jamie

Thank you Jamie for the comprehensive reply. Pantograph Services will regrind the engraving cutters at a very reasonable price - £1.66 each, presumably plus VAT. In fact, I have a little tin of blunt cutters as well which I can send for regrinding.

Richard

 

[ScottW]

I have a Taylor Hobson. I haven't used it a great deal but I have found that the angles were not a true 90degree. Going on what Jamie has just posted do I assume I need to play about with the arms to correct?

Scott

 

[jamiepage]

Scott,
I don't know, but can only suggest you experiment with the arms a little. I found that a tiny discrepancy on setting the arms did all sorts of funny things to the geometry- but there again, that's not surprising really, I guess.
It didn't take long to set it up so the test piece was producing accurate mini- me's, and I haven't yet found the need to change from a 2:1 ratio. It has probably seized solid at that ratio now, in fact.
All in all, it is a splendid way of producing bits- although I do wish I could generate CAD for etching. Indeed, indeed, if I could, I'm not sure how much I would still use the pantograph.
Jamie

 

[Ian@StEnochs]

All in all, it is a splendid way of producing bits- although I do wish I could generate CAD for etching. Indeed, indeed, if I could, I'm not sure how much I would still use the pantograph.
Jamie

With a Panto machine I can make the patterns, cut the components and assemble the model all in one day! If I had to draw out, wait for etchings, perhaps 6 weeks, and then find that I had made a mistake in sizing, I don't think that I would build much.

Seriously though a panto is worth its weight in gold. I use patterns at 2-1 for most plate work but 4-1 and 6-1 for smaller more complex parts. I haven't had a problem with getting accurate parts but my machine was refurbished by Pantograph services before I got it.

I mostly use throw away milling cutters and have collets which take them. There is a holder for the taper cutters, both parallel and engraving,which are fine on brass but not so good on nickel silver. I use the engraving ones to make a little works plate which I fit inside every loco I build and they can earn a few brownie points by making the odd door or coffin name plate

Ian

 

[jamiepage]

True enough. I have especially been very pleased with its ability to cut from thicker material where etching would need to rely on laminating. Or, more conventional milling which would still need hand fettling to final shape. Or indeed, the alternative of hacksawing from solid.
eg coupling rods- 2mm stainless (to hand) for the Hellingly loco, 1/8 mild steel for a couple of G3 steamers.

It is also quick, I agree. It is satisfying to keep a build momentum going by turning to the plastic to make a master- and any errors in what can be a pretty basic master are of course mathematically reduced on the piece itself, so it is easy enough to maintain a required accuracy and fidelity.

 

[Stoke5D]

Without wanting to be at all nannyish, I should do (or have done) and electrical check on the machine, as if the motor and wiring is original, there may be insulation issues you should be wary of.

I obtained a vertical drilling machine of a similar vintage to this and the motor failed a megger test and the switchgear was interesting from an electrical history point of view but I was much happier with a modern 'no-volt' arrangement and that stuff's cheap on eBay as surplus.


Andrew

 

[adrian]

I obtained a vertical drilling machine of a similar vintage to this and the motor failed a megger test and the switchgear was interesting from an electrical history point of view but I was much happier with a modern 'no-volt' arrangement and that stuff's cheap on eBay as surplus.

Thanks for that - as I have very nice solid Jones & Shipman vertical drill so some pointers as what constitutes "a modern 'no-volt' arrangement" and why I might be "happier" with such a setup would be appreciated.