Point control

[28ten]

Discussion on electrics and operating methods

 

[28ten]

Personally, I like a lever frame and some form of mechanical operation.
For Ashburton I will use something simple as there was only a small ground frame. If I were building a large layout then I would be tempted by tortoise units, but by and large I'm firmly in the KISS camp!

 

[Dog Star]

Our FoD layout has six turnouts and all are powered by Fulgurex with connection through cranks.  Whilst the engines are DCC - whoever said that DCC wiring is easier? - the turnouts are operated by a lever frame.  We have built a couple of 6-lever frames from the S.H.A group, purchased at S4um, and fitted each lever with a SPDT roller switch (Squires).  As the power source for the "operations" is 18VAC the lever frame is fitted with two diodes to rectify the AC source....  all of the switches are arranged so that one diode provides the positive half of the AC sign wave to the Fulgurex motor and the other diode provides the negative half of the AC sign wave.  Simples!

Why Fulgurex?  Do not like stall motors and did not make baseboard side frames deep enough for Tortoise.

regards, Graham

 

[Neil]

Not sure how well my small scale techniques will fare in the bigger sizes but here goes.

For lots of years I'd used those cheap slide switches with the black plastic handle to operate wire in tube to actuate the points and for polarity switching too. Shell island saw a change to miniature toggle switches that sort of ape point levers. Wire in tube wasn't used, the lever being hooked up to the tie bar by a quilting pin and angle crank. I hid the switches behind clumps pf long grass.

Shell Islands successor Abergwynant used the same switches. At about the time I was completing Abergwynant I was invited to play with a mates layout where the station throat trackage was operated by an exquisite home made lever frame. Huge fun, and I had to have one. as a result I splashed out all of a tenner on one of the ex GEM lever frames from MSE. It operates the points (and their microswitches) via wire in tube, the brass inserts from choc block connectors, bike spokes and some dubious home fabrications of brass and copper tubing. Looks a bit Frankenstien under the boards but discrete on top and lots of fun to play with.

 

[Phill Dyson]

As far as outdoor points go I have kept mine as simple  as possible, they are wired so they are not reliant on blade contact but the points are still switched manually

 

[Dog Star]

Hi Graham :wave:

Who/what are/is the SHA group?

CME :wave:

To avoid various and humourous (maybe not) posts the mnemonic most in use shall not be used before the watershed.

  The S4 Society has a number of area groups and the one which manufactures the lever frame, supplied as a nickel etch, is the Shropshire & Herefordshire Area Group...  the lever frame seems to be available at S4um each year.  I recollect an inclusion in the "Small Supplies" scetion of Model Railway Journal some years ago.  The instructions give the Squire's part number for the roller switches.

regards, Graham

 

[Neil]

..... BTW - I for one, would love to see more (photos) of your set up sounds like K.I.S.S  .....

I'm simple therefore it has to be simple. Having said that take a look at this tangle of underboard stuff.

Heading from lower right to upper left we have:
Wire in tube from lever frame and choc block insert  connecting ...
wire to bike spoke which runs in ...
wood block bearing followed by ...
choc block insert end stop then ...
tie bar actuator, brass strip soldered to choc bloc copper tube soldered perpendicular to drive a pin inserted through tie bar, then ...
another end stop followed by ...
the other wodden end bearing after which ...
the spoke nipple provides adjustment to the ...
microswitch.

 

[Jordan]

I like the idea of the Australian system - the levers arnt 100% prototypical yet the operation appears to be (either W.I.T or Point Motors) and is interlocked with signals etc...

It must've been at Warley 2005 that an Australian girl approached me and asked if I would be interested in Interlocking signals on my layout... I told her I didn't build layouts big enough to need signals...

I have used steel rod point control on Withyn Reach, and on several layouts used the basic type ofCaboose Industries "Ground Throw" point levers, where I didn't mind the "Hand of God" approach. On my 'in progress' layout I'm using ground throws but hidden behind the backscene with stiff wire connecting them to the points.
In over 30 years in the hobby I have never ever used a point motor. :scratch:

 

[iploffy]

why not use point motors that control your points remotely like what have done on my layout via cranks and wire

Ian

 

[rjr]

For outdoors how about air control..

I have seen points controlled by a pair of small plastic syringes connected by a length of aquarium airline pipe. One syringe with the plunger connected to the motion of the blades. The tube connects the two syringes nozels. The second syringe is then used to control the point.. Push the control syringe plunger in the point syringe plunger moves out and visa versa.

No outdoor electronics and all the control syringes could be banked together.

 

[marsa69]

I'm still undecided but I think for now my layout will be a combination of motors and hand operated. Motors on my 3-way and the crossover and hand operated in the yard and the head shunt  :scratch:

 

[Neil]

For outdoors how about air control..

I have seen points controlled by a pair of small plastic syringes connected by a length of aquarium airline pipe. One syringe with the plunger connected to the motion of the blades. The tube connects the two syringes nozels. The second syringe is then used to control the point.. Push the control syringe plunger in the point syringe plunger moves out and visa versa.

No outdoor electronics and all the control syringes could be banked together.

Hi :wave:

I have seen a more robust proprietry systems of such (expensive) and my dad's mate runs similar from some old industrial parts
(cheap), yet both required a compressor, so your idea could be worth investigating. Still need to wire up the blades etc. for polarity control/reliability.......

Cheers,

CME :wave:

Possibly a dimwitted question, but why not use liquid instead of air? Not compressable (well not to the same extent) and would give a more direct/firm feel to the set up.

 

[iploffy]

not as dim witted as you think Hydraulic point control so long as there are no air locks in the system and it can be made hardy enough that isa good suggestion

Ian