7mm The Woodhead Electrics, formerly "Spoked or disc?"

[TheSnapper]

Heather

I was thumbing through a Booklaw publication yesterday at the SVR called simply "EM1 & EM2". It's going on my Christmas list.

Maybe worth a look?

Tim

 

[Heather Kay]

I presume the power handle notch arcs are polished brass?

 

[Heather Kay]

Maybe worth a look?

It probably will. One of my problems since moving to full-time model making is my library is centred around my own personal interests. It's full of stuff covering LNWR, LMS and early BR, with precious little covering other companies and periods. The early electric locos are conspicuous by their absence, unless you count the London Underground and the 4-rail DC trains out of Euston.

As funds permit, I plan to expand the library, where I can't borrow suitable volumes from the Basingstoke branch of the Western Thunder Lending Library anyway!

I don't know where I'd be without all the help freely given by everyone here, and this thing called the Internet!

 

[mickoo]

EM1s were rampant at Guildex. Has someone done a kit recently? Quite apart from the Woodhead layout there was one entered in the modelling competition, and I'm sure a second one was on the Guild stand during Sunday morning.

Apologies for my voltage confusion. The memory bank must have shortcircuited because it thought Woodhead was 25kV. Bzzt!

25Kv that'd be interesting LOL

Actually 'now' it is 25Kv, it was converted once the 506 EMU's expired, it's a crying shame they didn't do it in 1981.

The one on the modelling competiton I think was from the same stable as the Woodhead route, I.E. resin sides and roofs with etched cabs, the other one was Nick Dunhills on his work bench in BR mixed traffic lining, scratch built I was told and very nice too

I don't think anyone has done a kit 'recently' (less than 5-10 years) but I'm sure both have been available in the past.

 

[mickoo]

Heather

I was thumbing through a Booklaw publication yesterday at the SVR called simply "EM1 & EM2". It's going on my Christmas list.

Maybe worth a look?

Tim

Very good book, based on the same format as the WD book, lots of photos of actual locos, not so many of the route or detail photos, but I recommend it if your interested in Woodhead locos, I've only just started digging through mine , yes I know, more research material

 

[Heather Kay]

An order has been placed with the Titfield Thunderbolt emporium. It will fill one gap in the library, and I'm working out a way I can grow the library in other directions - not least shelf space!

 

[alcazar]

Those power notch arcs look like polished stainless to me.

One hopes the arcs aren't live at 1500V DC........

 

[Brian Daniels]

A link to some detail pictures on my Flickr site for you of the 77 at Butterly heather https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/sets/72157627470167554/

 

[OzzyO]

Daft question time!

Did the EM2s (the co-cos) come out in lined black?
I know that they had lined green, one in electric blue? and rail blue?

Thanks for pointing out my mistake about the cab, I was going from memory as I'm doing about the colours.
Around Manchester there's still a lot of the old 1,500V OLE still about.

OzzyO.

PS. have a look at this one.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/barkingbill/2128271721/in/set-72157603700610261

 

[Dikitriki]

I don't think anyone has done a kit 'recently' (less than 5-10 years) but I'm sure both have been available in the past.

MSL Hobbies Mick, now absorbed into JLTRT. Lots of problems with them, I have an EM2 in my to do pile.

Richard

 

[Brian Daniels]

I managed to put an MSL one together. I keep meaning to re-motor it at some time. https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/8729660498/in/set-72157633471963960

 

[Heather Kay]

I can't confirm the livery, but green was applied at around the same time as the pioneer diesels were reliveried in the BR lined green. That was around 1956 onwards, I think. The locos entered service in 1953-54.

Anyway, piccies. I thought this was from a kit, until I had a good look inside the shell.



As you can see the pantos are damaged, and don't have the skate fitted.





There is a full complement of plates fitted, just legible. The period modelled would be before the nameplates were fitted - unless I hear otherwise. Of course, that would mean a green livery anyway.







Each grille is made of individual slats, and you can just make out the marking out for the riveting. A stunning piece of scratch building, I have to say.

I do need to engineer the gubbins between the bogies, I've just realised. If Adrian doesn't mind concentrating on that and the bogies, allied with Brian's photos (thanks, Brian!). Oh, and the buffing gear. The repatriated locos still have the NR square heads, so I guess ill source something suitable from one of the numerous steam bits and bobs suppliers.

 

[mickoo]

Daft question time!

Did the EM2s (the co-cos) come out in lined black?
I know that they had lined green, one in electric blue? and rail blue?

Thanks for pointing out my mistake about the cab, I was going from memory as I'm doing about the colours.
Around Manchester there's still a lot of the old 1,500V OLE still about.

OzzyO.

PS. have a look at this one.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/barkingbill/2128271721/in/set-72157603700610261

Ozzy,

No problems, I did have to check myself and refresh my memory before posting LOL.


Yes both EM1 and EM2s came out in BR mixed traffic livery, about the same time V2 and Halls I think were in mixed traffic, then there was a change in what was mixed traffic and the V2s and Halls went BR passenger green, as did the EM2, and, I think some EM1, but only the later boiler fitted ones (named as well).

Some also went to electric blue for a period, certainly EM2 and I've a nagging that some EM1 went also, I'll check my references when I get home, to be honest I think they look good in any colour

Re-OLE, yup a lot if not all the portals are the original 1500V DC structures (I have some drawings for some portals somewhere.....) as are a lot on the GE main line out to Shenfield, those beyond to Chelmsford where the original 1500V DC ended has been upgraded to 25Kv mast type structures I believe, though some 1500V DC structures may remain in odd locations, certainly a few DC masts at Ingatestone and a couple left in Chelmsford station its self.

In Manchester, all they did was change the insulating pots, having said that, on the GE inner suburban OLE they retained the old 1500V DC pots in many places and ran at 25Kv for many years, they used to fizz and buzz with a nice purple halo in the wet foggy mornings on the way to college, more so at Maryland it seemed

 

[alcazar]

I remember when the wires first went up at Doncaster, on platform 4 north end, there was one post that buzzed, and if you leaned against it, you could feel a slight tingle.
Doesn't do it now.

 

[OzzyO]

Just for a bit of fun, an EM1 in the short lived chromatic blue? with another one showing between the two in green.


Right up to the end you could see the old totem on some blue locos with the green paint still showing behind the crest and British Railways.

Reddish was a fantastic shed to visit in them days, no H&S or hi vis vests just real railwaymen doing the job.

I got this photo off the web and don't know it's copyright owner so please don't use it

OzzyO.

 

[mickoo]

Not sure, there is some debate about some of the EM1 blue colours, in that shot it looks more like BR blue with small yellow panels but that could be down to film and processing.

That blue is certainly darker than electric blue applied to the EM2 and AC locos, the electric blue was first applied when Crewe took over maintenance around 62-63.

Nice pic BTW, one of the EM1 went to the scrap heap in full BR blue still with lion and wheel logo in 1981!

I so need a model of these in my collection LOL.

 

[alcazar]

On some, you could see where Crewe had painted over the lion and wheel transfer.

I saw most of mine at Wath, the EM2's rarely got as far as that. It seemed to take an age of visits to my uncle's on Moor Road before I finally saw Tommy.

 

[warren haywood]

Chromatic blue, rail blue what's the difference?
Some say it's the same colour, I don't know!
Just asking cos I have a JLTRT Western to do in it.
I'm sure someone will have a definate answer

 

[mickoo]

Chromatic blue, rail blue what's the difference?
Some say it's the same colour, I don't know!
Just asking cos I have a JLTRT Western to do in it.
I'm sure someone will have a definate answer

Chromatic blue seems to be a recent myth, probably born out of poorly processed colour pictures of the day, or as is more likely badly mixed paint, I've read that Stratford didn't stock blue paint for many years and it was a mix of what ever green and yellow they had, resulting in some odd shades of blue on some locos. I've a photo in one of the Ian Allen landscape books that shows a class 25 in Derby works with a very odd shade of blue, the rest of the photos colour tones look ok but the blue is most odd, so there do seem to be odd coloured blue ones around.

The same applies to BR Brunswick green, Crewe always seemed to be a darker shade than some of Doncasters pacifics, but then some A4's look very dark, I think it's all a bit subjective.

Officially, I think there are only two blues, BR blue and BR Electric blue, the later was applied to Al1-AL6, EM2 and Glasgow blue train units....or a very close shade.

Here's an interesting photo, an AL3 is dead in tow to Domcaster works, this is the period when AL3 were stopped pending transformer rectification by the manufacturer, ironically the AL3 class were also stored at Bury alongside the EM2 before sale to Holland.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/5855601281/sizes/l

And
E3031_E3098_E3027_Bury_1969 by robertcwp, on Flickr

None the less it does show a good comparison between electric blue and BR blue.
25kV electric on Woodhead Line by cabsaab900, on Flickr

The photo does also shown that you can mix DC and AC locos, but only one powered please EM1 often went to Crewe from Manchester and in early days along with the AL3 I think AL5 went to Doncaster on occasion via the Woodhead route.

Heather, sorry for the totally irrelevant waaaaay OT, I'm more than a bit passionate about juice jacks I'll stop now and let y'all get some peace and quiet LOL

 

[Steph Dale]

After looking into this a few years ago I'm fairly sure what 'chromatic' blue is.
my best guess is that it's standard 'Monastral Blue' applied by airless spraying and subsequently over-varnished.

I know BR experimented with airless spraying techniques, but it suffered in a number of areas: the finish was matt, so a varnish coat was required; the equipment for spraying was a pain to look after and the finish weathered badly (varnish peeled, cracked and browned)

So there you are. No surprise they went over to air-spaying Rail Blue is it?

Steph