Prototype Tim Mills' Photos

[Yorkshire Dave]

Germany Rheine - Emden March 1974 and a departure from the locomotive fare so far. Three photos of 0-10-0T 094 640-0. I believe this is probably coal fired. The location is not confirmed but I suspect Meppen or Emden. I'll re-write this description once I have input from the more knowledgable on this group!

094 640-4's history is here. She was withdrawn in December 1974 therefore Tim has captured her in her last 9 months of service.

Today she is preserved as a Denkmal (monument) lok (94 1640) and is on public display at Gennep, about 21 km south southeast of Nijmegen in the Netherlands.

Denkmalloks on static display in and around towns seem pretty common in Germany and the Netherlands - something rarely seen in the UK.

This map shows the number of rail vehicles (locomotives, rolling stock, etc) on public display scattered around Europe https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...&ll=51.053390198444525,14.667958084640157&z=6

 

[oldravendale]

Thanks for the thought about Wakes Week, Heather, and I must admit that I'd not considered it. However, from memory of driving to Scotland during Wakes Week when Co Durham and north to the borders was shut I have a feeling it was about a month later - ie early July, but memory is not what it was. Wikipedia tells us that it could be any time between June and September. Equally, some of Tim's dates can be a bit "fluid" so I guess it's still possible. I'm just somewhat surprised that I can't find it in Six Bells Junction.

Mick. Thanks for confirmation re-Emden. Also re the BR94 and probable 043.

Then, thanks to Roger, Michael and Dave for further info about the BR94 and particularly Dave for all those references. It's nice to think that the loco in Tim's photo still exists.

A good story about the DB plates, David. In fact I was at the tail end of when you could pick up a name or number plate for less than £1 at one of the railway works when engines were being scrapped. That was, of course, before some smart mind recognised that there was an unfulfilled demand and suddenly the informal supply stopped.

J72 69011 in the shed yard at Hull Dairycoates on 11th June 1961. One of the most unlikely British Railways builds in 1949 of a design dating from the turn of the century. This was "at home", having been allocated to Hull Dairycoates in November 1960. It moved to West Hartlepool in February 1963 and was withdrawn in December the same year. (SLS). I don't have any information about the date of scrapping but this was carried out at Cohen's. Cargo Fleet. (BR Database).



K3 61932 on shed at Hull Dairycoates on 11th June 1961. This had been allocated to Hull since October 1955 and was withdrawn from there in February 1962. (SLS). It was observed by the Railway Observer in the scrapyard at Doncaster in February so we can assume that it was scrapped shortly thereafter. (WHTS).



V1 2-6-2T 67635 on shed at Hull Dairycoates on 11th June 1961. This had been on the Hull allocation since June 1959, then moved to Thornaby in December 1961 where it was withdrawn in September 1963. (SLS). It was seen at Darlington Works in January 1964, presumably for scrapping (RO), although BR Database records a scrapping date of November 1963.



Germany Rheine - Emden in March 1974 and three photos of, I believe, 2-10-0s in the shed at Emden.







...and remaining with Germany Rheine - Emden in March 1974 and oil burning 2-10-0 043 666-7 on the turntable at Emden. That looks like a railcar to the right.



Brian

 

[mickoo]

I'd be inclined to think the shed is Emden, photos before and on the turntable are all Emden, logic suggest it's the same location.

Quick check of my hoovered web pictures, it's Emden, the rear stall windows are different at Rheine, taller and many smaller panes.





Rheine looks like it has two types of window, possible the shed had an extension at some time, neither match Tims photos.

The diesel unit is a Br624 with the flat front, a small batch had the roof over the windscreens rounded off to look more like a UK DMU.

 

[Martin Shaw]

I have a feeling that 77001 has been on or is going to a charter train rather than a railtour, so I'm not completely surprised that Six Bells Junction has no mention. It's also odd that whilst Reckitts were a Hull company they merged with Colmans of Norwich in 1938 there is no reference to that on the headboard. I suspect a day out to Whitby or somesuch. For info the Edinburgh Trades fortnight is the first two weeks of July, the rather more egalitarian Glasgow Fair is the last two weeks of that month, traditionally Scotlands summer tends to be a bit earlier than Englands.

Some dates, the V1 is definitely conflicted.

69011 Hull Dairycoates 22/12/49, Hull Alexandra Dock 8/3/53, Dairycoates 13/11/60, West Hartlepool 20/1/63, Wdn 9/12/63, Sold to G Cohen Cargo Fleet 9/64.

67635 Blaydon 20/4/35, Gateshead 20/3/39, Heaton 27/11/39, Neasden 4/6/43, Heaton 10/8/43, Hull Botanic 25/1/59, Dairycoates 14/6/59,
Thornaby 19/11/61, Wdn 23/9/63, Into Darlington for cutting 29/10/63.

Martin

 

[AndyB]

Standard Class 3 2-6-0 77001 in the yard at Hull Dairycoates on 11th June 1961.

Hull was the centre of Reckitt's business and the Quaker family were very benevolent towards the wellbeing of their workers - just as were Colmans of Norwich with whom they later merged.
I found a reference to the company running an annual staff outing to Bridlington - a mere 24 miles away, so an easy trip for a 3MT.
11/6/61 was a Sunday, so that fits well with a works outing.
There is a Facebook group on old Hull, including a 1961 photo inside Dairycoates shed - https://scontent.fman4-2.fna.fbcdn....F2hABP8rUJ4f9VuvTsrEHdi5M4coco-5w&oe=65D36B5F
Seems there was a staff magazine running in the early 60's which might have had details of the trip - or maybe posting Tim's photo on the FB group might get some details.

Andy

 

[AndyB]

Posts crossed with Martin as I took too long...

It's also odd that whilst Reckitts were a Hull company they merged with Colmans of Norwich in 1938 there is no reference to that on the headboard.

Whilst they did merge as an overall business in 1938, the two parts continued to keep their separate identities for some while after - sorry, can't find the place where I read that now. Will keep looking and edit the post if I find it.

Andy

 

[AndyB]

Quite by chance, there is a copy of 'OURS', 'The Reckitt Magazine' dating from the 1960s on ebay right now. It refers solely to the Reckitt group with no mention of Colman anywhere.

There is mention in there of Sunshine fund outings - so a bit more searching found that an employee in the 1920s "...started a charity at Reckitts called the Sunshine Fund, collecting a ha’penny a week from the workers, which went towards under-privileged children in the area and later elderly people.”

From that, it looks as though the 'Sunshine express' was most likely a local private charter, hence no mention on 6 Bells.

Andy

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

There is mention in there of Sunshine fund outings - so a bit more searching found that an employee in the 1920s "...started a charity at Reckitts called the Sunshine Fund, collecting a ha’penny a week from the workers, which went towards under-privileged children in the area and later elderly people.”

From that, it looks as though the 'Sunshine express' was most likely a local private charter, hence no mention on 6 Bells.

It appears the 'Sunshine Express' was chartered by Reckitts to give the local under-privileged children and elderly (rather than employees) a day trip to the coast.

 

[adrian]

Thanks for the thought about Wakes Week, Heather, and I must admit that I'd not considered it. However, from memory of driving to Scotland during Wakes Week when Co Durham and north to the borders was shut I have a feeling it was about a month later - ie early July, but memory is not what it was. Wikipedia tells us that it could be any time between June and September.

Oh lord - Wakes Week, the scourge of ultimate confusion in Preston.

Basically around Lancashire each Town had a wakes week between June and September, each having a different week to avoid an overlap. Lord knows what would have happened if Prestonians and Blackburn residents ended up in Blackpool on the same week! The source of confusion is that I don't "get" the August Bank Holiday Monday off work, instead we have our August Bank Holiday Monday on the Tuesday after the Spring Bank Holiday because it clashed with "Wakes Week" but actually Preston Wakes Week was always the first week in August! What many forget is that August Bank Holiday Monday was originally the first Monday in August but in the late 1960's it was moved to the last Monday in August, except in Scotland who I believe still retain the first Monday.

So yes I have August Bank holiday on the last Tuesday in May to replace the end of August Bank Holiday Monday to avoid a clash with the Preston Wakes week at the beginning of August! Clear as mud and yes still in our working agreement with the company!!

 

[simond]

Eee, it’s grim ooop north….

 

[Roger Pound]

In the late 1950's, when I worked in Coalville, - the centre of the Leicestershire coal field, the Wakes Week, (which lasted a fortnight!) came up with some interesting 'holiday' workings on what was primarily a branch line where freight traffic was paramount. There was a basic commuter service for passengers but the bulk of the movements were coal and granite trains. The highlight of the Wakes Week additional workings was the service to Blackpool which ran only on the two Saturdays at the start of each week. The train originated at Hugglescote, nominally a village on the west side of Coalville but actually merged into the urban area. It had a station which was, for the rest of the year, goods only on the former Midland and LNW joint line from Shackerstone. The Blackpool service climbed the curve to join the former Midland line to Coalville Town station and thence head north via Burton-on-Trent as far as I remember. (The Midland and LNW branch continued to Shepshed as the Charwood Branch.) Without fail, this train was powered by a Jubilee 4-6-0, although my records of that time are so sparse, I cannot recall any specific locos by name or number. Jubilees were seldom, if ever seen on this line at that time, other than working these particular trains. Among other specials featured one could always rely on seeing excursions to Alton Towers - always a double headed by a 'Crab' 2-6-0 and a Fowler 4F 0-6-0. Otherwise 'Black Fives' dominated the workings but it certainly made life interesting!

Without doubt Wakes Weeks provided a rather unique time in the town's year - everything much quieter and calmer, and for both the road or rail enthusiast some interestingly different sights!

Roger.

 

[oldravendale]

Mick. I'm in your debt again for the corrections to the locations of the German photos. Thank you. Corrected on the appropriate posts and the additional info now in the German Railway folder.

Martin. Thank you for yours. The additional and varying info about the V2 gives a choice of references which while still making the subject as clear as mud at least offers alternatives and origins.

Andy - an excellent group of posts about Reckitt, all added to the relevant file, and then to Dave, Adrian and Roger for more and interesting info about Wakes weeks and the local implications. Until my first trip to Scotland in the early 1960s I'd never heard of them, and was very surprised to find that, when we reached certain border towns there was nowhere to stay as everyone was away on holiday. I remember specifically that happening at Jedburgh where we'd have really liked to stay but we had to get back on the road or we'd have been sleeping in the car.

J72s 68672 of the 1898 batch clearly in store with the chimney covered and smokebox door open and 69020 from 1951 also with the smokebox door open so probably in store on shed at Hull Dairycoates on 11th June 1961.

68672 was allocated to Hull Dairycoates from March 1958 and was withdrawn in October 1961. (SLS). The Railway Observer reports it as being at Darlington Works in April 1962 so it was almost certainly scrapped there shortly thereafter.

69020 was allocated to York North when new (BR Database) and allocated to Hull Dairycoates in March 1960. It went to Darlington in November 1962 and was withdrawn at the end of December 1963. (SLS). It was reported by the Railway Observer at Thompson's, Stockton on Tees in March 1965 but there remains a query against that advice.



V3 2-6-2T 67682 on shed at Hull Dairycoates on 11th June 1961. It had been allocated there since June 1959, moved to Darlington in December 1961 and was withdrawn from there in September 1963. (SLS). This agrees with the Railway Observer which also confirms it was in the works in October and was probably scrapped around that time. BR Database gives the scrapping date as November 1963. The shed plate is 50 - something - possibly B, which Hull Dairycoates became in 1960 . Locoshed Books show it as at 52C Blaydon in May, November 1957 and May 1958, then 53A Hull Dairycoates in December 1959. In the SLS record there is no mention of Blaydon, although I recognise that it predates the photo.



Another J72, 69010, on shed at Hull Dairycoates carrying the 50B shed plate on 11th June 1961. This had been new to Hull Dairycoates in December 1949 and stayed there for the whole of it's working life, being withdrawn in October 1962. (SLS). According to the Railway Observer it was at Darlington in May 1963 which is probably representative of the scrapping date.


Back to Germany and Rheine-Emden in March 1974. This is coal burning 2-10-0 044 481-0 at Emden.



A series here, still on the Rheine-Emden trip in March 1974 of 0-10-0T 094 640-0 at Emden previously seen and commented on in post #3094 and subsequent.









Brian

 

[Genghis]

Double X on a buffer - kiss of death??

 

[John Duffy]

What many forget is that August Bank Holiday Monday was originally the first Monday in August but in the late 1960's it was moved to the last Monday in August, except in Scotland who I believe still retain the first Monday.

Scotland used the same system as you describe with holidays staggered between the cities. In later years this became a fortnight and it was often the case that factories and works (when we still had those) shut completely or were only open for maintenance. The building trade always stopped completely. There was though generally a weeks overlap. The Dundee Fortnight for example was the last week in July and the first in August, which would overlap each week with another [maybe Glasgow] who would get the first two weeks in August. The first Monday of the fortnight was also the summer Public Holiday (traditionally there are no "Bank Holidays" in Scotland only "Public Holidays"). This arrangement meant that trains would arrive with workers heading off on holiday from one city and returning very often with a group eating home to a different destination. Of course sufficient stock for holiday specials was also something they had then that would be incomprehensible to the accountants running the railways today.

Half day closing was something else that was staggered between local towns. A local printer used to produce annually a tiny book which included all of the towns and cities in Scotland with their individual half day closing and public holidays listed.

The further Scotland get subsumed into English "Britishness" especially with centralised media and broadcasting the more these traditions get lost and Bank Holidays has now become common parlance.

 

[simond]

Half day closing was something else that was staggered between local towns. A local printer used to produce annually a tiny book which included all of the towns and cities in Scotland with their individual half day closing and public holidays listed.

Whilst the Bank Holidays were centrally defined, I well remember the half day closing in the Wirral as a kid sixty years back, staggered as you say between the local high streets. I don’t think that was particularly Scottish, and I suspect the advent of the supermarkets sounded the death knell on that particular way of working, and arguably, of the High Street itself.

 

[oldravendale]

Dave - I don't think that the double X on the buffer is the kiss of death. I believe it's more likely an indication that the loco is available for traffic - maybe that it's coaled and watered. Every loco in that series which appears to be in operating condition has some sot of chalk mark on a buffer.

John and Simon. Thanks for further expanding the story of Wakes Weeks. I remember half day closing as well, and that builders and plumbers merchants weren't open even on a Saturday (although they were open on half day closing days) which was a source of great frustration when I was working on our first, semi-derelict house. Are we better served by seven day trading? I guess so, but it means that shop workers and small convenience shop owners don't get guaranteed weekends off - in fact possibly no days off at all if a convenience store owner.

C Class 0-6-0 31690 and crew at Tonbridge Station on 10th June 1961 with a tender of half way decent looking coal. Rather a confusion of information here, so what I have is: At the time of the photo allocated to Ramsgate, moving to Ashford in November 1961 where it was withdrawn on 23rd June 1962 and then allocated to Stewarts Lane (!) on 25th June. (SLS). BR Database agrees with the initial allocation to Ramsgate but advises that it was transferred to Hither Green in June 1952, then Ashford in November 1961 where it was withdrawn on 23rd June 1962. Locoshed Books for 1957 - 1959 report the loco as being allocated to Hither Green so it rather looks as though BR Database is correct this time. BR Database further reports a scrapping date of July 1962 and WHTS advises the engine was seen at Ashford Works on 1st July which all fits neatly.



Standard Class 4 2-6-4T 80154 on a local from Tunbridge Wells in the bay platform at Tonbridge Station on 10th June 1961. The SLS allocations here are broadly in agreement with BR Database and rather more believable. New it was allocated to Brighton in March 1957, then Feltham in July 1963 and Nine Elms in November 1964 where it was withdrawn in April 1967. BR Database further reports that it went to Buttigiegs, Newport where it was scrapped in August 1967.



H Class 0-4-4T 31305 in Tonbridge Station on 10th June 1961. By October 1955 it was allocated to Bricklayers Arms, so a long way from home here. It went to Stewarts Lane in June 1962 where it was withdrawn in the following November. (SLS). It was scrapped at Cashmore's Great Bridge in July 1964. (BR Database).



With apologies I've run out of time to put up any German photos right now but I may get to them a bit later.

Brian

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

Half day closing was something else that was staggered between local towns. A local printer used to produce annually a tiny book which included all of the towns and cities in Scotland with their individual half day closing and public holidays listed.

Interesting as early closing and market days were feature of bus timetables. However, the 1974 Western SMT timetable I have does not include these.



Early closing and market days were in operators timetables even up to 1997 (the latest one I have). Wednesday and Thursday were the common early closing days and with Saturdays in some towns.

However in Germany, until as recently as 2003, shops were open Mon to Fri (no early closing) and closed early on Saturdays (Samstag) at 14.00 hrs. There was always one Langer Samstag each month where shops were allowed remain to open until later. All changed after 2003 and anything goes.

And a selection from some of the English bus operator time tables I have.

London Transport Local 1960


London Country North East 1974


Hertfordshire County Council Western Area 1997


Thames Valley 1963


And Eastern Counties 1969 which also included a list of principal hospitals with visiting days and hours.


And apologies for the bus timetable diversion...

 

[Yorkshire Dave]

C Class 0-6-0 31690 and crew at Tonbridge Station on 10th June 1961 with a tender of half way decent looking coal. Rather a confusion of information here, so what I have is: At the time of the photo allocated to Ramsgate, moving to Ashford in November 1961 where it was withdrawn on 23rd June 1962 and then allocated to Stewarts Lane (!) on 25th June. (SLS). BR Database agrees with the initial allocation to Ramsgate but advises that it was transferred to Hither Green in June 1952, then Ashford in November 1961 where it was withdrawn on 23rd June 1962. Locoshed Books for 1957 - 1959 report the loco as being allocated to Hither Green so it rather looks as though BR Database is correct this time. BR Database further reports a scrapping date of July 1962 and WHTS advises the engine was seen at Ashford Works on 1st July which all fits neatly.

Although attributed to Wainwright the SECR C is a development of the LCDR B2 designed by William Kirtley in 1899. Being the first locomotive built after the 1899 managing agreement I don't think Wainwright had any input into the design and have a feeling the original drawings were signed by William Kirtley rather than H S Wainwright (or the latter may be a counter signature).

 

[Ressaldar]

Hi Brian,

many thanks for the Tonbridge photographs, they bring back many pleasant memories. However, I am confused with the headcode on the BR Class 4MT tank as it is for Tonbridge to Brighton via Eridge and then presumably Tunbridge Wells, which ties in with your caption. I wonder what it is doing in Platform 4 as the access to that platform is from Sevenoaks or Redhill and therefore no direct access from the Tunbridge Wells direction. The C class 31690 is in Platform 1 which with Platform 2 are the platforms from Tunbridge Wells.

kind regards

Mike

 

[Martin Shaw]

If like me you’re not familiar with Hull and its railway environs, a brief note about locomotive sheds. The town was served by two major railways, by far the biggest was the North Eastern Railway with extensive goods traffic and an engine shed at Hull Dairycoates which supplied locomotives for that. It also had a large passenger station at Paragon adjacent to which was Hull Botanic Gardens Shed, principally allocated with passenger engines.
The other railway was the Hull & Barnsley Railway which had a large works and locomotive shed at Hull Springhead and a stabling point at the side of Alexandra Dock, in reality two sidings in the open. This latter provided shunters for dock traffic exclusively.

Both railways became part of the LNER and subsequently the NE region of BR.

Originally Dairycoates shed was 53A, Botanic Gardens 53B, and both Springhead and Alexandra Dock 53C. Springhead closed in Dec 58 immediately prior to the amalgamation of the NE and E regions at which time (Jan 60) the shed allocations for the new ER became Dairycoates 50B, Botanic Gardens 50C, Alexandra Dock was retained as a stabling point only, it subsequently closed in Oct 63. Botanic Gardens closed to steam in Jun 59 being converted to a railcar depot and Dairycoates became the only steam shed in Hull until 1968.It closed completely in 1970.

68672 Starbeck 1/7/24, Neville Hill 1/5/26, Dairycoates 17/3/57, Alexandra Dock 21/7/57, Dairycoates 1/2/59, Wdn 23/10/61, Into Darlington for cutting 7/2/62.

69020 York 27/1/50, Dairycoates 21/2/60, Darlington 7/10/62, Wdn 28/12/63, Sold T.J.Thompson 12/64.

67682 Gateshead 15/9/39, Stockton 28/5/50, Gateshead 1/10/50, Hexham 2/1/55, Botanic Gardens 25/1/59, Dairycoates 14/6/59, Darlington 19/11/61, Wdn 23/9/63, Into Darlington for cutting 29/11/63.

69010 Dairycoates 20/12/49, Alexandra Dock 8/3/53, Dairycoates 13/11/60, Wdn 1/10/62, Into Darlington for cutting 4/4/63.

All the above from Yeadon.

31690 Faversham 1/1/48, Ramsgate 3/48, Hither Green 6/52, Ashford 10/61, Wdn 6/62.

From Longworth.

I would agree entirely with Mike, and memories for me as well, there were very few services from the general direction of the Oxted lines that went beyond Tunbridge Wells West, the only real connection from Tonbridge to T Wells was the Hastings services which were SE Division, west of Grove Junction was very much the central Division, the old SEC/LBSC rivalries were still felt into the 80s. As he points out access to the down bay was either from Sevenoaks or Redhill, which is where the train has come from. The only addition (from the RCTS) is that the loco was sold for scrap from Salisbury. Presumably this was the location on the SR nearest to the scrap dealers yard.

Martin