Two more n00b DCC questions...

S

SteveO

Guest
I think I'm getting the grasp of this DCC business and I like it. However, I just can't get my head around a couple things.

1. There are 3 basic sizes of chip (ESU specifically); the XL, regular and micro. They all seem to be very similar at first glance, except for the motor current supply (don't mention the pins – I have no idea what this means either!). Am I correct in this assumption? For example, if I were to run two 1824 motors from a micro chip, would it work? Would I have the same range and quantity of sounds on a micro as I would have on an XL? Would I be able to drive a big speaker (or two) on a micro – are there differences in the amp outputs on each of these?

2. Oh dear. My head is spinning so much from question 1 that I can't remember question 2... I'll come back to this one later.
 
S

SteveO

Guest
I just remembered what question 2 was; the difference between LokSound 3.5 and 4. I guess I can probably guess answer that by saying upgraded hardware and software, better capabilities and more storage for sound files, etc?
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
1. Physical size and current rating are the main differences. I suspect the Micro couldn't drive two Mashima 18xx motors, but the regular version of the decoder will.
2. LS 3.5 standard and micro needed 100ohm speakers, the LS4 is happy with regular 8ohm speakers. The later version also has facilities for 'keep alive'. Otherwise you've pretty much got it; the v4 is a much more capable piece of kit. So saying, v3.5 does most of things I need.

Sorry about the hasty reply!

Steph
 
S

SteveO

Guest
Much appreciated Steph, that clears up a few questions. My next is where to get v4s for a fair price...
 
J

JohnB

Member
SteveO,

To add to what has already been said:

- The latest LS XL can drive servo motors (in addition to traction) and has built in keep-alive.
- The LS 3.5 runs great out-of-the-box. The 4.0 needs some tweaks for best performance.
- The LS 4.0 has built in RailCom.
- I have never used a Micro, but I seem to remember that you can not load you own sounds.

If you are planning on loading you own sounds, you will need a ESU programmer and a lot of time, as it a sharp learning curve. Documentation is minimal, but is at least in English. (Zimo decoders are very good but my German isn't.)

The biggest difference in sound is related to speaker size - the larger, the better. Speaker placement and baffles are also important.

John Burrow
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
JohnB said:
SteveO,

To add to what has already been said:

- The latest LS XL can drive servo motors (in addition to traction) and has built in keep-alive.
- The LS 3.5 runs great out-of-the-box. The 4.0 needs some tweaks for best performance.
- The LS 4.0 has built in RailCom.
- I have never used a Micro, but I seem to remember that you can not load you own sounds.

If you are planning on loading you own sounds, you will need a ESU programmer and a lot of time, as it a sharp learning curve. Documentation is minimal, but is at least in English. (Zimo decoders are very good but my German isn't.)

The biggest difference in sound is related to speaker size - the larger, the better. Speaker placement and baffles are also important.

John Burrow
Click to expand...


John,
Agree with all that, apart from:
You can load your own sounds on the Micro (I've done it) - but not on the Select (which is a US plug-and-play decoder).
The v4 drive is perhaps not quite as good fresh out of the box when compared to v3.5, but it has a quick set-up routine (set CV54 = 0, put loco on track, press f1, the loco will belt away and set itself up) which is very effective.
Steph
 
J

JohnB

Member
Hello Steph,

I tried the CV54 routine once. I didn't think the results, particularly the smoothness of the stop/start, were as good as the custom settings I usually apply, but I may well be delusional. I shall be installing a 4.0 in the next couple of weeks, so I will try the CV54 routine again.

John Burrow
Currently in San Diego, but often in Bristol.
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
John,
That's interesting. In my 0-gauge stuff the use of the CV54 trick has been great - even setting up a couple of twin-motored RJH diesels with no trouble. I must confess I've not yet had a LokSound v4 in a HO loco; most of better stuff has already got (non-sound) Zimo in them.
Are your comments on the running based upon experience with US HO? If so, I'm all ears!
As an aside, have you found any correlation between the drive settings under v3.5 and those for v4?
Steph
 
TheSnapper

TheSnapper

Western Thunderer
JohnB said:
.........I tried the CV54 routine once. I didn't think the results, particularly the smoothness of the stop/start, were as good as the custom settings I usually apply...........
Click to expand...
IMHO, the "CV54 Trick" is a good start, but you may need to do fine tuning afterwards.

Incidentally, it's curious how it comes up with different values for the relevant CV's, if you do it more than once. (It also buggers-up the steam chuff settings (CV57 & 58) every time, if you are into that).

Tim
 
J

JohnB

Member
Steph,

I may be disappointing you, but I'm modeling Great Western, in O Gauge. I use coreless motors and ABC gearboxes, and the low current draw allows for the use of HO LokSound decoders.

The difference I see in drive settings between v3.5 and v4.0 is that, out of the box, the v4.0 decoder gave a pronounced jerk when stopping. This may not be evident with an iron cored motor. To eliminate the jerk, I go into the decoder's drive settings and specify that I am using a coreless motor. This eliminates the jerk. Also, I can hear a low frequency buzz when the locomotive pulls away, but it's usually drowned out by the sound of opened cylinder drain cocks.

Tim,

I use the autochuff on my GWR steam railmotor only. On the remainder of the locomotives, although it's extra work, I install a sound cam. I know I'm being pedantic, but I want the chuff to occur at 12 0'clock, 3 o'clock, etc.

I obviously have too much time on my hands...

John Burrow
San Diego
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
John,
Aah Yes, that would make sense. I've had similar jerks with v3.5 on my coreless-motored stuff. I haven't yet had the chance to try a coreless loco on a v4. I find you can get away with the HO versions of the decoders with most motors, certainly the regularly-used Mashima and Canon motors work fine and won't pull anything like an Amp.
I imagine you could use the Loksound Micro couldn't you? !

Oh and watch that chuff thing, depending upon their cut off and valve lead the chuffs won't be at 3, 6, 9, 12 o'clock. Sorry!

Steph
 
S

SteveO

Guest
Thanks chaps, all very informative. But what about the pins - either 8 or 21. What does this mean or what is the significance?
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
Steve,
This is down to personal preference, I've standardised on the 21 pin version as it makes life a bit easier for the wiring, which may be a major consideration with modern diesels, and especially with my US models; SP locos have a lot of lighting units!
For the 21pin version you'll also need the adapter board to sit it on. ESU do two, the more expensive one provides an extra two functions, which can be useful.
The 8-pin version has the plug on the end of a wire loom, which is a few inches long. If you don't want the plug cut it off and hard-write the decoder in place.
It appears that currently the 21-pin decoder comes with the 20*40 speaker, whereas the 8-pin has only the 23mm speaker. The 20*40 is a great unit for 7mm stuff, so buying the 21-pin decoder may save you the cost of a new speaker, but will cost the price of the adapter board.
Steph
 
S

SteveO

Guest
I've found an interesting cheap supplier of 'universal' v4 LokSounds (the type with no sounds included) for a pretty good price, and they offer the 8 pin and 21 pin for the same price. Considering we are still in the EU (just!) and would pay no import duty they seem like a good deal, unless I'm missing something. The price is E80, which works out at about £66 at todays exchange rates, and may be cheaper later if the currency rates continue.

Here's a link to the retailer. If I'm missing something totally obvious then somebody let me know before I buy a couple for my Class 17s. Obviously, I know that I'll have to find some Clayton sounds to be blown onto them but it is still £££s cheaper than anything available in the UK.
 
oldravendale

oldravendale

Western Thunderer
Interesting stuff, Steve. I'd like to understand that German web site but my German is next to nothing and certainly not up to translating these details. However, £66 for a decoder is remarkably good. How much is the shipping? This looks even better value when the sound can be burned by Coastal DCC even if there will be shipping involved.

I'll consider for a bit before going ahead though. If I don't get it right it'll be £100 or so up the Swannee which would be the most terrible waste.

Anyone any other thoughts on this?

Brian
 
S

SteveO

Guest
If you visit the site with Google Chrome it will offer to translate for you. The shipping is a flats rate of E5.99 to anywhere in Europe so makes great sense if you buy multiples.

I'd like to hear Steph's input on this as I have just about enough spare cash to buy a couple.
 
Steph Dale

Steph Dale

Western Thunderer
SteveO said:
If you visit the site with Google Chrome it will offer to translate for you. The shipping is a flats rate of E5.99 to anywhere in Europe so makes great sense if you buy multiples.

I'd like to hear Steph's input on this as I have just about enough spare cash to buy a couple.
Click to expand...


Steve,
No it isn't - we're outside the Euro so shipping is Eu16.99 for this. Payment by Paypal (plus 3.9% handling charge for not being in the Eurozone) or Credit Card (plus 1.9% handling charge for, you get the picture).

So we're at (Eu80.72+Eu16.99)+1.9% = Eu98.03 = £81.34 cheapest (assuming your credit card only charges you the trading rate (they won't).

Add on a tenner (roughly) for loading the sound profile, plus two further lots of shipping to get it to whomever is going to load the sound and then get it back and you're at about the value of buying from a reputable UK source.

Your call.

For those of us who build our own sound profiles and might order more than one or two it might be worth a thought. I did a similar thing with Conrad a few years ago.

Steph
 
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