Brian McKenzie
Western Thunderer
[QUOTE . . . . what's a "bare table train"? [/QUOTE]
Empty "flats"
Empty "flats"
7mm US model dabblings
- Thread starter Jordan
- Start date
adrian
Flying Squad
OK - but why "table"?Empty "flats"
The reason for asking is I don't understand what these links are for - are they clamps or something?
adrian
Flying Squad
Cheers - so just to be clear on this table trains rather than stacking containers actually carry the entire truck trailer - container, chassis, wheels etc.
Jordan
Mid-Western Thunderer
Yep.
Brian T
Western Thunderer
That is correct sir!
Also called 'piggyback' & TOFC (trailer on flat car) when loaded.
A very 'quick' history-Piggyback and Doublestack Train Cars
Brian.
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JimG
Western Thunderer
Funny I just watched the video and was about to say the same thing - the video worked fine but the audio is pants!
I suspect that the problem is that the microphone recording the sound is just not up to handling the high level of sound from the locos amd the front end of the recorder sounds as though its not up to it as well with a pretty poor limiter. I always used to carry at least one good old dynamic microphone in my sound kit which could handle high decibel loads when I was on the road. The front end of a Nagra IV could handle the signals and it was analogue, which helped.
Jim.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Jim,
You're probably right, it's an exceptional digital camera with a very high end LCD and low light capability but as a video piece of equipment, it's sadly lacking.
Video is not something I've explored much to be fair and there is a port for an external mic which I'll look into when I get back, but to be fair, there is absolutely nothing in the UK I will find remotely interesting to video, so it'll be next year when I get to that point; at which point I'll be sure to message here for the best advice
You're probably right, it's an exceptional digital camera with a very high end LCD and low light capability but as a video piece of equipment, it's sadly lacking.
Video is not something I've explored much to be fair and there is a port for an external mic which I'll look into when I get back, but to be fair, there is absolutely nothing in the UK I will find remotely interesting to video, so it'll be next year when I get to that point; at which point I'll be sure to message here for the best advice
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Adrian,
All that's written before is correct, though there are variations in 'pig' train rolling stock, originally they would all of been flat all over and the trailers backed on and then the dummy fifth wheel lifted to secure, these are called (by some) pig flats. Later technology caught up and to speed up the process the trailers were lifted on by front loaders....not forklifts....massive difference...therefore you do not need a flat part for the full length, only where the road wheels sit, these are called (by some) pig racks, they can also be called spines but technically a spine rack will not have any outboard appendages for the wheels and are used for containers only (much like UK container trains).
Pig flats are rare these days, I've not seen any so far, but pig racks are very common, the fifth wheel can also be dropped and containers carried instead. Most pig racks will take one trailer (usually 53') or two 2 trailers door to door (length yet to be determined).
To confuse matters, some double stack cars also have a fifth wheel fitting so can take trailers as well.
Articulated pig rack with single 53'
Articulated pig rack with two trailers door to door.
Container well stacker with fifth wheel attachments.
All that's written before is correct, though there are variations in 'pig' train rolling stock, originally they would all of been flat all over and the trailers backed on and then the dummy fifth wheel lifted to secure, these are called (by some) pig flats. Later technology caught up and to speed up the process the trailers were lifted on by front loaders....not forklifts....massive difference...therefore you do not need a flat part for the full length, only where the road wheels sit, these are called (by some) pig racks, they can also be called spines but technically a spine rack will not have any outboard appendages for the wheels and are used for containers only (much like UK container trains).
Pig flats are rare these days, I've not seen any so far, but pig racks are very common, the fifth wheel can also be dropped and containers carried instead. Most pig racks will take one trailer (usually 53') or two 2 trailers door to door (length yet to be determined).
To confuse matters, some double stack cars also have a fifth wheel fitting so can take trailers as well.
Articulated pig rack with single 53'
Articulated pig rack with two trailers door to door.
Container well stacker with fifth wheel attachments.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Bit of a bitty day today, canyon fogged in but whilst leaving the motel parking lot I spotted a UP train rolling up the cutoff and I'd found a crossing in Hesperia that bisected the cutoff so off I dashed. It's not a bad crossing but the northbound would be coming right out of the sun. In fact most shots south would be into some sort of sun, but hey at least there was sun. After 10 mins he didn't show so I presumed he'd dropped down the link onto the BNSF lines at summit (seen yesterday). For some odd reason I looked in the rental mirror ( I was facing south) and saw this hammering down the cut.
A quick bail out/stumble/scramble the few yards to the edge and a very quick grab shot, thank goodness for autofocus and the lightning fast boot time my camera has. Not what I planned, in fact much better than what I planned. Trains are thin and few on the cutoff, so unless you've passed one on the road or see one going up the pass it can be a long wait for one.
Next stop Victorville and the only thing available was the local tied down, access is near impossible, being in the middle of town, there was another triple set buried behind as well. This was a grab shot from the crossing after waiting for a northbound (east in BNSF terms) to pass.
Headed up the National Trails Highway and easily caught the intermodal which had come to a stand just past Oro Grande so bagged a rear end DPU shot, nothing we've not seen before, so not posted. Anyway headed on up the Trails Highway and spotted this coming down off the crest at Johnstons Corner (will go back as it's a good location for photos and scoped out a few days ago) four miles away....you can see a looooonngg way out here! Pulled over at Hodge and grabbed a telephoto shot on a manifest running at track speed, the telephoto was a mistake, I usually switch lenses to the wide angle for some stock shots, this time I didn't and missed a QTTX flat in the consist, gutted. For the uninitiated a QTTX is a flat wagon with anything from 8 to 12 axles with bolsters and used for excessive heavy loads.
Headed on up to Barstow, just dead as nails, only one autorack doing a crew change at the east end, grabbed a record shot, nothing special. Headed to Dagget, just bare all around so decided to head on up to Mojave, if for nothing else than to do just something. Passed Edwards AFB, mind the hangers and base were about 15 miles away but still visible, being a bit of a NASA and space nut, Edwards is something special. There are a couple of museums here but I couldn't find them easily so will come back later with better directions.
Anyway, wandered around the Mojave airport, lots of interesting stuff on the other side of the fence and some interesting companies working around here, including one which had a nice display outside of rockets and a scale model of SpaceShipOne (1/5th I think) for testing. There's a;lso dozens and dozens of stored civil airliners here as well. For rail fans I found this little number on one of the industrial spurs.
All I know is that it's red. Aways off in the distance I could see some parked UP units, after some back and forth on the local roads I finally had access to them.
Just far enough for prying eyes, so out with the tape and a few million electrons wasted later I had a pile of detail shots.
I got my measurements too which means I can progress step two of my Gevo project and step one of the SD70M project 
Access to the engines was through a truck park and on the way out I spotted this, and just for Jordan I grabbed a few shots, the owner driver was initially suspicious but as soon as I spoke in an English accent was more than pleased to have his rig photographed.
Have to say, the more I looked the more tricked out details I could see, there's some serious $$$ in aftermarket kit on this unit.
I'd already seen one BNSF train head through town so whilst pulling out of the lot spotted another UP heading uptown, those of you that know Mojave will know that it's a north south town..ish, so late afternoon you need to be on the other side of the tracks for sunny side up photos. with the train aleady halfway through town that was impossible so I hammered up the 14, hung a left on the 58 as I knew the line turned west into Cameron canyon. For the life of me I couldn't find a single turn off in all the best places....you actually need to be heading east and take a dive off on a few dirt tracks with zero lead in and out of the turning. Anyway I found one at Cameron road crossing and a few moments later he came down the hill flat out, even opened up the throttle for a little smoke for me than shot off as he rolled by with some nice tunes on the nathans.
The road bed has just been trimmed or re ballasted as he was kicking up some dirt. Heading back to Mojave I missed another heading up the grade to Cameron and then once in town this heavy coal train came off the Barstow line and headed up the grade.
Followed only minutes later by this BNSF intermodal, by now I'd found the short cut to the sunny side.
As soon as he had passed the UP local sat in the yard headed south toward Lancaster and Palmdale.
This line isn't busy so I'm a bit disappointed at missing good shots of the three heading up toward Tehachapi, all running in the same direction, clearly a block of trains going the same way, doubt I'll see that again but might pop back here next Sunday to see if anymore are stabled on the spur by the airfield
A quick bail out/stumble/scramble the few yards to the edge and a very quick grab shot, thank goodness for autofocus and the lightning fast boot time my camera has. Not what I planned, in fact much better than what I planned. Trains are thin and few on the cutoff, so unless you've passed one on the road or see one going up the pass it can be a long wait for one.
Next stop Victorville and the only thing available was the local tied down, access is near impossible, being in the middle of town, there was another triple set buried behind as well. This was a grab shot from the crossing after waiting for a northbound (east in BNSF terms) to pass.
Headed up the National Trails Highway and easily caught the intermodal which had come to a stand just past Oro Grande so bagged a rear end DPU shot, nothing we've not seen before, so not posted. Anyway headed on up the Trails Highway and spotted this coming down off the crest at Johnstons Corner (will go back as it's a good location for photos and scoped out a few days ago) four miles away....you can see a looooonngg way out here! Pulled over at Hodge and grabbed a telephoto shot on a manifest running at track speed, the telephoto was a mistake, I usually switch lenses to the wide angle for some stock shots, this time I didn't and missed a QTTX flat in the consist, gutted. For the uninitiated a QTTX is a flat wagon with anything from 8 to 12 axles with bolsters and used for excessive heavy loads.
Headed on up to Barstow, just dead as nails, only one autorack doing a crew change at the east end, grabbed a record shot, nothing special. Headed to Dagget, just bare all around so decided to head on up to Mojave, if for nothing else than to do just something. Passed Edwards AFB, mind the hangers and base were about 15 miles away but still visible, being a bit of a NASA and space nut, Edwards is something special. There are a couple of museums here but I couldn't find them easily so will come back later with better directions.
Anyway, wandered around the Mojave airport, lots of interesting stuff on the other side of the fence and some interesting companies working around here, including one which had a nice display outside of rockets and a scale model of SpaceShipOne (1/5th I think) for testing. There's a;lso dozens and dozens of stored civil airliners here as well. For rail fans I found this little number on one of the industrial spurs.
All I know is that it's red. Aways off in the distance I could see some parked UP units, after some back and forth on the local roads I finally had access to them.
Just far enough for prying eyes, so out with the tape and a few million electrons wasted later I had a pile of detail shots.
I got my measurements too
which means I can progress step two of my Gevo project and step one of the SD70M project Access to the engines was through a truck park and on the way out I spotted this, and just for Jordan I grabbed a few shots, the owner driver was initially suspicious but as soon as I spoke in an English accent was more than pleased to have his rig photographed.
Have to say, the more I looked the more tricked out details I could see, there's some serious $$$ in aftermarket kit on this unit.
I'd already seen one BNSF train head through town so whilst pulling out of the lot spotted another UP heading uptown, those of you that know Mojave will know that it's a north south town..ish, so late afternoon you need to be on the other side of the tracks for sunny side up photos. with the train aleady halfway through town that was impossible so I hammered up the 14, hung a left on the 58 as I knew the line turned west into Cameron canyon. For the life of me I couldn't find a single turn off in all the best places....you actually need to be heading east and take a dive off on a few dirt tracks with zero lead in and out of the turning. Anyway I found one at Cameron road crossing and a few moments later he came down the hill flat out, even opened up the throttle for a little smoke for me than shot off as he rolled by with some nice tunes on the nathans.
The road bed has just been trimmed or re ballasted as he was kicking up some dirt. Heading back to Mojave I missed another heading up the grade to Cameron and then once in town this heavy coal train came off the Barstow line and headed up the grade.
Followed only minutes later by this BNSF intermodal, by now I'd found the short cut to the sunny side.
As soon as he had passed the UP local sat in the yard headed south toward Lancaster and Palmdale.
This line isn't busy so I'm a bit disappointed at missing good shots of the three heading up toward Tehachapi, all running in the same direction, clearly a block of trains going the same way, doubt I'll see that again but might pop back here next Sunday to see if anymore are stabled on the spur by the airfield
Eastsidepilot
Western Thunderer
Noticed the "Yanks" still using twin wheeled axles on their road trailers, thought they went out with ear trumpets 
. I had twin wheeled tri-axled trailers (ex Middle East run) 30 years ago and they were deemed old then !
Enjoying these shots Mick, keep 'em coming, grateful for the truck shots also.
Col.
. I had twin wheeled tri-axled trailers (ex Middle East run) 30 years ago and they were deemed old then !Enjoying these shots Mick, keep 'em coming, grateful for the truck shots also
. Col.
Focalplane
Western Thunderer
That truck is decked out something loud! I used to help a salesman who repped all the add ons that you can imagine on a truck. His database back in the early 1990s was out of this world, it's a wonder a truck's alternator could even charge the batteries. Pride of ownership was a thing to believe back then so I am glad to see it survives today.
mickoo
Western Thunderer
Typical Monday on the pass, only saw ten trains and managed photos of six, Started off misty so went off to Lugo where the sun was out, then that clouded over and the pass was clear, mid heavy clouds are building so not misty, just stormy.
We're about fives miles from summit and the line dips between summit and Hesperia airport, which gives trains a good down gill run from summit.
BNSF 3756 rolls along at track speed (50mph) and begins the slight rise up toward the crest near Hesperia airport.
At the same time a stacker rounded the curve from Hesperia, although he appeared first he was taking it slow so didn't block the manifest above. Once again a pair of NS units in the consist and another in the DPU, this may be a regular run so will check again at the same time on future days.
NS DPU rolls down the grade toward summit.
A short while later another UP train rolls by heading toward summit.
Followed closely by a UP stacker a little further west at EBCS Lugo, previous photos were at WBCS Lugo.
And that was it for several hours, when the cloud finally closed in I went back to the motel and found clear skies and this BNSF stacker crawling up across drawbar flats, a quick bail out at Mormon rocks grabbed this head end and DPU shots.
Whatever anyone ever says, I can never tire of this location in the evening.
We're about fives miles from summit and the line dips between summit and Hesperia airport, which gives trains a good down gill run from summit.
BNSF 3756 rolls along at track speed (50mph) and begins the slight rise up toward the crest near Hesperia airport.
At the same time a stacker rounded the curve from Hesperia, although he appeared first he was taking it slow so didn't block the manifest above. Once again a pair of NS units in the consist and another in the DPU, this may be a regular run so will check again at the same time on future days.
NS DPU rolls down the grade toward summit.
A short while later another UP train rolls by heading toward summit.
Followed closely by a UP stacker a little further west at EBCS Lugo, previous photos were at WBCS Lugo.
And that was it for several hours, when the cloud finally closed in I went back to the motel and found clear skies and this BNSF stacker crawling up across drawbar flats, a quick bail out at Mormon rocks grabbed this head end and DPU shots.
Whatever anyone ever says, I can never tire of this location in the evening.
Hi,
A concept that has passed into the mists of time is the New York Central’s Flexi-van; introduced in 1958 and out of service by 1976.
NYC Flexi-Van
http://img97.xooimage.com/files/b/3/5/nyc-504523-4322cd4.jpg
http://img98.xooimage.com/files/2/4/5/nyc-flexi-1-4322cd8.jpg
Regards,
Peter
A concept that has passed into the mists of time is the New York Central’s Flexi-van; introduced in 1958 and out of service by 1976.
NYC Flexi-Van
http://img97.xooimage.com/files/b/3/5/nyc-504523-4322cd4.jpg
http://img98.xooimage.com/files/2/4/5/nyc-flexi-1-4322cd8.jpg
Regards,
Peter
Brian McKenzie
Western Thunderer
The gross laden weight for trucks on the Interstate Highways doesn't seem especially heavy at 80,000lbs (with tandem axles rated for 34,000lbs). Trailer axles are typically bunched up tight, spaced with minimal gap and generally set right on the tail end of the trailer. Peterbilts are the marque lusted after by truckers. Drivers are paid a fairly low rate per mile - but they do rack up big mileages.
Of note to modellers of the North American scene, containers are not commonly set down on the ground off truck trailers, but remain onboard with loading and unloading done quickly while backed into warehouse docking bays - with time penalties incurred if not done smartly.
I'm not sure about UK, but here in New Zealand, container swing lift side loaders are used extensively, but understandably the Americans don't want to lug the extra weight over the bigger distances. Kiwi truckers are now on to shifting one 40ft + one 20ft container or 3 x 20ft per load, over nine axles.
Jordon must must be a whiz at selling trucks
Home | Jordan Truck Sales-Brian McK.
Edit: fix format
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mickoo
Western Thunderer
Bitty day, started out with appalling weather, a quick drive north but slow traffic but picked up in the afternoon, managed to tick off a few more from the bucket list.
Started off with low cloud and fog and this sat in the hole outside the hotel, there were two down trains but pretty crap photographically, it's a good location in the afternoon if the sun is out for downhill trains. For up hill there's a swarm of masts and poles to contend with, but it's just workable.
Headed up to Hesperia, sun at a dogged 90° to the tracks, but workable both ways, later in the day it favours southbound trains like this one, first from this side then later on the other side.
A north bound heads up and crests the grade at Hesperia, the cloud rolling over the ridge line from the Pacific Ocean was amazing to watch, but when it met the hotter desert air it fizzled out, an endless process as more cloud piled in from behind.
Ticked off the natural cross over at Victorville, difficult light due to the heat haze and washed out desert colours.
As the manifest cleared a northbound ducked under and headed toward Victorville.
UP near the truss bridge a northbound (BNSF east) manifest rolled by with another ATSF tagged GP60 in the consist.
This was something different, BNSF 5608 leads an eleven unit light engine movement south across the truss bridge. The pylons here really don't make this an all round good location sadly, it's telephoto country to crop and get under them, wide scenery shots are always compromised.
UP 7944 heads up the grade toward the truss bridge, the telephoto works here and emphasises the massive (I think) cement works in the background.
Telephoto shot of the DPU heading through the truss bridge, there looks to be some nice rocky angles and cut in the background but just about almost impossible to access without leaving the rental exposed and alone.
Another UP train, this time empty coal wagons, comes up the grade at Victorville.
Headed back to the motel and noticed that the cloud was just skimming the edge of summit cutting as it came up the canyon, making for some good backdrops. First up 4437 crawls up Main 3
And overtaken very shortly later by 4958 fairly romping up Main 2 for a parallel meet.
I made the climb to the top of the hill and what a view, I'd like to think that all that while ago, some one important or clever stood here and scribbled some lines on the map that would become Cajon pass, from here you can see all the way across to Alray and when the sun shines right down to Cajon depot area. The low (well they're 4000' feet high, as am I) stil race up the canyon from the Pacific Ocean, but the warm air from the desert plains is just enough to hold them at bay by the summit cutting.
This is about as wide a angle I could get, I think I can just about work out the old alignment but will need to check web photos when I get home.
Have to say, this is probably the best seat in the world and I'll come back with full sun from behind me which is about midday and should be able to get both sides of the train lit at the same time.
Returned back down to the rental just in time to hear this UP manifest horn for the Summit crossing, a quick scramble down the bank and just about perfect lighting and angle, a complete inverse to this mornings first photo.
Started off with low cloud and fog and this sat in the hole outside the hotel, there were two down trains but pretty crap photographically, it's a good location in the afternoon if the sun is out for downhill trains. For up hill there's a swarm of masts and poles to contend with, but it's just workable.
Headed up to Hesperia, sun at a dogged 90° to the tracks, but workable both ways, later in the day it favours southbound trains like this one, first from this side then later on the other side.
A north bound heads up and crests the grade at Hesperia, the cloud rolling over the ridge line from the Pacific Ocean was amazing to watch, but when it met the hotter desert air it fizzled out, an endless process as more cloud piled in from behind.
Ticked off the natural cross over at Victorville, difficult light due to the heat haze and washed out desert colours.
As the manifest cleared a northbound ducked under and headed toward Victorville.
UP near the truss bridge a northbound (BNSF east) manifest rolled by with another ATSF tagged GP60 in the consist.
This was something different, BNSF 5608 leads an eleven unit light engine movement south across the truss bridge. The pylons here really don't make this an all round good location sadly, it's telephoto country to crop and get under them, wide scenery shots are always compromised.
UP 7944 heads up the grade toward the truss bridge, the telephoto works here and emphasises the massive (I think) cement works in the background.
Telephoto shot of the DPU heading through the truss bridge, there looks to be some nice rocky angles and cut in the background but just about almost impossible to access without leaving the rental exposed and alone.
Another UP train, this time empty coal wagons, comes up the grade at Victorville.
Headed back to the motel and noticed that the cloud was just skimming the edge of summit cutting as it came up the canyon, making for some good backdrops. First up 4437 crawls up Main 3
And overtaken very shortly later by 4958 fairly romping up Main 2 for a parallel meet.
I made the climb to the top of the hill and what a view, I'd like to think that all that while ago, some one important or clever stood here and scribbled some lines on the map that would become Cajon pass, from here you can see all the way across to Alray and when the sun shines right down to Cajon depot area. The low (well they're 4000' feet high, as am I) stil race up the canyon from the Pacific Ocean, but the warm air from the desert plains is just enough to hold them at bay by the summit cutting.
This is about as wide a angle I could get, I think I can just about work out the old alignment but will need to check web photos when I get home.
Have to say, this is probably the best seat in the world and I'll come back with full sun from behind me which is about midday and should be able to get both sides of the train lit at the same time.
Returned back down to the rental just in time to hear this UP manifest horn for the Summit crossing, a quick scramble down the bank and just about perfect lighting and angle, a complete inverse to this mornings first photo.
michael080
Western Thunderer
Great pictures as always. But the view from top of the hill overlooking the incline from the west is really extraordinary. I hope I can get back there soon ...
Michael
Michael
oldravendale
Western Thunderer
With all the stuff Mick is sending us at the moment this might be of interest:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07N831QHS/ref=pe_385721_48721101_TE_M1DP
I'm reading it at the moment and the shenanigans associated with the build of the rails across the USA makes the performance of our railway barons pale in to insignificance. You can see where they got some of their ideas from, though.
Brian
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07N831QHS/ref=pe_385721_48721101_TE_M1DP
I'm reading it at the moment and the shenanigans associated with the build of the rails across the USA makes the performance of our railway barons pale in to insignificance. You can see where they got some of their ideas from, though.
Brian