The D&RGW and Rio Grande Southern in 0n3

[PhilH]

Two turnouts on the hidden section have been lifted and relaid in a rather awkward location. As related earlier, the turnouts on the hidden section were custom made by Marcway and these have long 'bendy' blades fixed at the crossing end and soldered rigidly at the other end to the tiebar. Not an ideal arrangement as it puts a lot of strain on the soldered joint at the tiebar. The turnout giving access to the low level sidings from the main circuit is the most frequently switched and one blade became detached from the tiebar some time ago and had to be re-soldered, a rather difficult operation because of the limited headroom. After it became detached a second time I decided the only permanent solution was to remove the turnout and hinge the blades as described in the description of the handlaid turnouts. It also seemed wise to do the turnout next to it which gives access to the hidden siding.

The track had been fixed to the cork roadbed with PVA so the turnouts were lifted by sliding a table knife between the ties and the cork and moving it gradually along to break the bond. Fortunately they came away with little damage, just losing some of the PCB ties in the process. Hollows in the cork where the knife had dug in were filled with a polyfilla/sawdust mix. After repair and modification the turnouts were relaid on PVA, with the wiring pre-attached and fed through the existing wiring holes in the process. Locating the tortoise motor operating wires in the tiebars was a bit of a fiddle, but thankfully its all gone back together and hopefully will now be trouble free.

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It seems to be the rule that any US narrow gauge layout must have at least one timber trestle, so this layout is no exception. The trestle will be located across the window opening and if I can find a suitable picture or photo the intention is to get this printed on a window blind to form the backdrop to the trestle scene. Anyway that's for the future, the priority now is to get the trestle built. This job has been "starting" for some time with little practical work actually being carried out, so posting it here may encourage a bit more progress - maybe ?

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The trestle location with the temporary 'bridge' spanning the gap. Below it on a piece of MDF is marked the track centre line and position of the bents (vertical supports). The plan is to move this forward and build the trestle structure on it, using the existing track alongside - which is on a curve and a gradient - as a reference for the finished alignment and level. When the trestle is complete up to the ties, the temporary bridge can be removed, the trestle slid back into its final position and the track laid across it. That's the plan - for now anyway !

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The NorthWest Short Line "chopper" is a tool regularly used by model railroad builders in the US for cutting timbers to length for trestles and similar projects, although there are mixed comments about its usefulness and the size of timber its capable of cutting. So I decided to build my own version and make it perhaps a bit more robust than the NWSL version. Its built mainly from spare materials available to hand - or scrap to most people, I do tend to hoard any bits of timber, metal, spare bolts or screws left over from any job. The only purchased parts were the single edge razor blades which do the actual cutting.

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Used with a firm chopping action, i.e. with some force, it gives a reasonably clean square cut - this is 1/4" square basswood.

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[Scale7JB]

Magic!

JB.

 

[PhilH]

Wandering slightly off the layout topic but with the same prototype theme - having a small outside circuit of 45mm track I've been tempted to dabble in Fn3 (1:20.3 scale on 45mm gauge) and with a live steam loco on reservation it seemed a good idea to get something electric in the meantime, just one loco, or maybe two, or......

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So this is an Accucraft C-16 obtained via the well known auction site, already equipped for dead rail operation and complete with rechargeable battery, receiver, speed controller and transmitter. It came in a stout wooden carrying case apparently professionally made and not something knocked together by the previous owner. However these things are damm heavy and with the loco and tender in the case I can just about lift it, never mind carry it anywhere. I think separate carrying cases for loco and tender will be required if I take it to other layouts. Despite being packed with a mountain of bubble wrap the pilot had contacted the end of the case and damaged the pilot beam during delivery, requiring some straightening and re-soldering. The lesson is if things as heavy as this don't come in the manufacturers original packaging they really need to be collected in person.

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A couple of other items needed fixing, made obvious from the auction photos such as the missing whistle. Accucraft had only provided one safety valve on the steam dome and I didn't think much of the shape of it, so the top of the dome was drilled out and a new insert provided with the new whistle, two new safety valves and the existing steam valve. The top part of the whistle unscrews which may be a help on layouts with tunnels of limited clearance. The crew are Woodland Scenics figures which needed fairly drastic surgery to fit in the cab. The engineer was cut into 8 or 9 separate pieces to get the required shape, all joined together with brass wire dowels and Araldite, then re-shaped with model filler. The lights are on a separate supply with non-rechargeable batteries. I like to know the lights work although I very rarely switch them on, so I've kept that arrangement but changed the headlight and marker light bulbs to LEDs.

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The only other alteration to the loco itself was the provision of a chuff cam on the rear driving axle. This comprises a square block of brass fixed to the axle with the corners contacting a micro switch. The sound system does provide for automatic chuffs varying with the power supplied to the motor, but I didn't think they were accurate enough for the whole speed range.

Reading up about these models, it seems that Accucraft produced 3 batches of the C-16, all with Pittman gearhead motors but with different gear ratios. The first batch were 19:1 ratio which was too low, the second batch were 60:1 which was too high, by the third they apparently got it right at 31:1. My loco is from the second batch and at full power with 6 freight cars and a caboose on fairly level track it runs at a reasonable enough speed, but doesn't leave anything in reserve so I've managed to obtain a similar Pittman 31:1 ratio motor from the US which I'll fit later if required.

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On to the tender. As supplied it had all the battery/RC equipment in the tender without the sound system but it was all loose and rather an untidy mess. Now all the equipment is firmly fixed in position. The new 2" dia speaker with its sound enclosure is mounted over the existing hole in the centre of the tender floor. Above this is an aluminium plate carrying the rest of the equipment fixed with double-sided self adhesive foam pads. The on/off switch with a LED indicator and battery recharging socket are under the tank filler. In the tender body itself the main rechargeable battery is top left in the photo with the radio receiver and speed controller alongside it bottom left. The new sound card is top right with the lighting supply battery bottom right. An on/off switch for the lighting is fixed to the coal doors at the front of the tender. A six pin plug and socket connect the tender electrics to the loco. The sound card is from Mylocosound, an Australian company I believe, and its programmed by infra-red signals from a television type remote control. There is an infra-red receiver on the sound card itself, which obviously needs to be exposed to receive signals, and also one on a flying lead which can be sited elsewhere. In my case its on the coal doors at the front of the tender.

The sound of the bell needs turning down and the whistle possibly up a bit, there's a choice of 9 different whistles available. The exhaust sound responds quite well to the regulator, turn it down and it will coast to a stop without chuffs, turn it up quickly with inertia set and it will give a loud exhaust which goes quieter when it reaches the required speed. Its not perhaps as sophisticated as some DCC systems but then its only about half the cost.

 

[RGSrr]

Excellent, as always.....
The Fn3 C16 is quite a beast, looking forward to seeing the live steamer.
And the photo backdrops inside on the On3 layout have made a huge difference to the atmosphere
Phil, Thanks for sharing
JP

 

[GWR Jim]

Phil.

Many thanks for the recent updates, looking forward to the printed ‘blind’ backdrop!!!

You continue to be an inspiration to the rest of us On3 modellers here in the UK, can’t wait for the next update.

Best.

James.

 

[PhilH]

Phil.
Many thanks for the recent updates, looking forward to the printed ‘blind’ backdrop!!!
You continue to be an inspiration to the rest of us On3 modellers here in the UK , Steady on James ! Are there more than two of us ? can’t wait for the next update.
Best.
James.

​

The latest acquisition is this K-27, probably more for the collection than the layout. It was built in Japan by Kodama and imported into the USA by PFM (Pacific Fast Mail) in the 1970s. This is my sixth K-27 so I must quite like them, apparently . For a nearly 50 year old model its in pretty good condition with no wheel wear and a moderate amount of tarnish. I assume its spent most of its life in a display case rather than the box, as the original box has gone missing.​

It needs a trip round with the pliers to get things horizontal that should be so, like the smokebox front step, and vertical that should be like the bell frame. The brakegear was supplied to be fitted by the owner if required and it isn't fitted to this loco, so presumably its gone missing with the box. Having seen other examples with the brakegear either fitted or separate from the loco I wasn't very impressed and there's more detail on the later PSC and MMI models, although of course you can't see most of this when the loco is on the track. Anyway, I've got PSC brass parts on order to provide a reasonable representation of the brakegear.




These models are notable for having equalising suspension.

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From the sublime to the ridiculous, for those who don't take model railways or railroads too seriously​

Well, what the heck, it amuses me. The 'tub' itself isn't too bad, might do with a repaint into D&RGW yellow. It needs a new timber supporting structure, spout, etc, and a new ladder. I can't drop the height as its supposed to cater for standard gauge as well as narrow gauge locos. Only problem is the annoying voice at the end of the recording - I've cut the video short to avoid that.

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[PhilH]

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Another building has been completed, a section house based on the prototype at Lizard Head on the Rio Grande Southern from a Building & Structure Co. kit. I'm not too happy with the tar paper roof , not that I've much idea how a tar paper roof should actually look. I tried spraying in patches/streaks, dry brushing and weathering powders, none were really successful, so its sod it – it’ll have to do for now . If I find it sufficiently annoying as it is I may have another go. I did remove some paint from the yellow planking with wire wool to show traces of the previously stained weathered wood underneath, but it doesn’t show in the photo. I think two coats of the yellow was one too many . Maybe a bit more "distressing" is needed. At least I'm quite happy with the chimneys ! I think

On with the trestle.

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This is based on typical bridge building practices used on the Rio Grande Southern Railroad. The 8" x 8" ties sit on six 8" x 18" longitudinal stringers arranged in two groups of three with gaps in between to allow water to drain through. The stringers are supported on bents (piers) at about 16ft centres, with a 14" x 12" cap and 12" x 12" posts, built in storeys with a 12" x 12" horizontal sill between each storey. The two centre posts (sometimes three were used) are vertical and the outside posts inclined, usually at 1 in 6 on straight trestles and 1 in 4 on curved trestles. Although mine is on a curve the tallest bents would have been a bit too wide at the bottom for the space available so I've compromised at approximately 1 in 5 for the inclined posts. Diagonal sway braces 3" x 12" are fitted each side of each storey, and the bents are connected by several 6" x 8" horizontal girts between each sill.

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In the prototype the heights of the bent storeys varied to suit the terrain, but I've kept to one size so that all the posts will be exactly the same length. A total of 8 bents will be required, two of each of those in the above diagram.
I was a bit dubious about assembling the multi storey bents by just gluing the ends of the posts on to the sills and originally intended to run the posts through in one piece from top to bottom, with two narrower sills on each side of the post. however I've decided to stick to the prototype arrangement and connect the individual posts through the sills with 2mm dia. brass dowels, thus:

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This will require fairly accurate drilling of holes in the centre of each post and corresponding holes, vertical and inclined, in the sills.
There are 108 separate posts and with a hole in each end gives a total of 216 holes, plus 140 holes in the sills.

tbc

 

[PhilH]

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Holes in the ends of each post were drilled on the lathe using a purpose made holder to get them in the centre of the post. The holder comprised a square tube soldered together from strip brass into which the posts were a firm sliding fit, with a closed end to give just enough of the post exposed to grip and easily remove. The square tube was fixed into a thick walled brass tube bored out to fit and soldered in place. After drilling the posts were trimmed to length and angle as required on a disc sander and stained with diluted shoe dye in alcohol.

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One of the two tallest bents trial fitted together, just with the brass dowels at this stage. Before fixing permanently together with adhesive some of the joints require minor attention, mainly where the holes in the sills are not quite dead in the centre. However the posts are all reasonably well in line and even without glue its a fairly strong and rigid structure.

tbc

 

[adrian]

It makes me wonder where I was when they were handing out patience.

You might have missed out on the patience but more than made up for it with perseverance considering the lengths you've gone to for many of the full size photos you've been posting.

 

[Gerry Beale]

I've just come across this thread - wonderful! It brings back memories of a never to be forgotten trip to Colorado when, amongst many delights, we followed the route of the RGS over the Lizard Head summit. We called in at Delores but the 'Goose' was not there although we later encountered it at Durango and even managed to have a ride in it. A fantastic trip to celebrate a landmark birthday and I would dearly love to do it again!

Gerry

 

[PhilH]

On the D&RGW most of the larger trestles were replaced by steel bridges to accommodate heavier locos, so the trestle is largely based on examples on the Rio Grande Southern Railroad. The Rio Grande Southern originally had 142 trestles in its 162 mile length. Some of the lower ones were replaced by earth fills, but a total of 111 still remained when the line closed in 1951 although most would have been repaired, renewed or rebuilt several times. The largest locos permitted over the RGS were the K27s, so a little modellers licence has to be applied when larger locos on the layout have to cross the trestle.

The following photographs are from the Denver Public Library Western History Collection and are published here with a licensing agreement for my use on this forum but remain the copyright of Denver Public Library Special Collections. Thanks to the helpful library staff for making this facility available.

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Borrowed D&RGW #464 on a RGS northbound freight crossing a trestle near Franklin at the south end of the line near Durango. Photographed by Otto C. Perry on September 6 1941. (DPL Call No. OP‑8104)
464 is one of the two K27s preserved and after a spell in California at Knotts Berry Farm its now on the Huckleberry Railroad in Michigan.
I'm hoping to reproduce a similar scene, although the nearest I can get to the loco is #463.

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RGS Goose #3 on a curved trestle also near Franklin. Photographed by Otto C. Perry on May 27 1939 (DPL Call No. OP-14896)
Note the three water barrels on platforms supported by extended ties which were provided on the longer trestles because of the fire risk. For the same reason the tops of the bents were fitted with galvanised steel sheet capping for protection against hot cinders dropped from steam locomotives. The check rails are fitted unusually outside the 3 foot, this was to allow for flangers (snow ploughs) to remove snow from between the rails, where a build up of frozen snow against the rails might cause a derailment. Guard timbers were also fitted along the ends of the ties.

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What a place to build a railroad ! - An early view along the high line of the Ophir Loop.
Photographed by Jesse L. Nusbaum (DPL Call No. N-262)
This illustrates several different types of timber bridge construction. Just partly in the photo on the right is Bridge 46F comprising two Howe pony (through) truss spans supported on triple bents on stone pillars. This was later replaced by an open deck trestle with bents on concrete pillars. Next along the line is Bridge 46E, an open deck trestle with bents supported on timber piles. This is followed by the large Bridge 46D comprising
two Howe deck truss spans (the nearest hidden from view) and a section of trestle. Later both truss spans on this bridge were replaced by trestle sections. Beyond this latter bridge the line rounds the rock outcrop and descends to Ophir Depot and via a 180 degree turn to reach the low line visible lower left, passing over another 5 trestle bridges in the process including one of the largest on the line at 466 feet long and 92 feet high.

For anybody interested in Colorado Railroads its worth visiting the DPL web site at:
CONTENTdm

 

[PhilH]

All 8 bents have now been assembled, there are two of each of those shown above.
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From what I can gather from published information and photos, the bottom sill of each bent (the mud sill) would be positioned on its foundation - a stone or concrete plinth or timber piles - and the vertical and inclined posts fixed to it by driving bridge nails 12" long x ½" square diagonally through the base of each post into the sill. The next sill would be fixed to the top of each post by driving a steel pin 5/8" dia. through the sill into the post. This process would be repeated for each storey of the trestle adding the longitudinal girts between each bent at the top of each storey on the way up. The diagonal sway braces were fixed to the posts and sills with 9" long x 3/8" bridge nails, rather than the normal bolts and washers prominent on other railroad trestles. Most of these fixings wouldn't be particularly visible on a model, although I did fix the sway braces with pins in addition to glue, cutting the head off and blackening the ends with a felt tip pen just before they were driven home.

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The stringers spanning across the top of the bents are bolted together in sets of three with a scale 2" gap between each one. The two sets for each span are centred under each rail. The NBWs are a tad on the small size, but the only other ones I had were far too large.

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When drilling identically placed holes in several items I usually make a template to make the drilling quicker and more accurate. In this case it was just a scrap piece of brass sheet with two angles soldered to it, giving a tight fit over the edges of the stringer with the appropriate two holes at each end for the NBWs.

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How the stringers should look in plan when they are in position on top of the bents. They are slightly over in length and will be trimmed to fit together when they are finally fixed in place.

There will be approximately 550 separate pieces of wood in the completed trestle, all cut to length, trimmed and stained - good job I didn't have room for a longer one !
The ties are spaced at scale 12" centres over the trestle, with about 144 in total and the rails are spiked to every one giving a total of 576 spikes to fit + extra for the guard rails - Oh joy ! really looking forward to that

Next job is fixing the bents in place at the right level - Hmmm

 

[mickoo]

For anybody interested in Colorado Railroads its worth visiting the DPL web site at:
CONTENTdm

RABBIT HOLE !

 

[PhilH]

RABBIT HOLE !

What the XXXX ?

"On the internet, a rabbit hole frequently refers to an extremely engrossing and time-consuming topic"

Ah Yes, got it !

 

[mickoo]

What the XXXX ?

"On the internet, a rabbit hole frequently refers to an extremely engrossing and time-consuming topic"

Ah Yes, got it !

Apologies, but yes you've got it now

I already knew about the DPL and have lost days browsing through there superb quality pictures if you're a DRG or UP fan.

 

[Tim Humphreys ex Mudhen]

Any excuse to look through my photos of the narrow gauge in Colorado and New Mexico. Here's a couple of snaps taken on my travels, the trestle at Trout Lake on the old Rio Grande Southern and Goose #5 working on the Durango and Silverton RR.
Tim

 

[PhilH]

I find it very easy to get sidetracked and diverted from the job in hand in this hobby.

So this Accucraft 1:20.3 scale K27 appeared on UK Ebay at what I thought was a very reasonable Buy it Now price. However the details given were very brief and the photos were all taken from one side so didn't show all of the loco. According to the description it had paint damage to the cab roof and other areas, the cab roof paint damage was obvious, the "other areas" not so, but it was covered in a layer of dirt so who knows what was underneath. It was said to have been purchased new 25 years ago, test run but never run on a track and stored ever since. It had obviously been stored exposed in a shed or garage to collect so much dirt. I did get more photos from the seller taken from the other side and the information that it had a sound system of some sort.
According to the Brass Guide these electric versions were produced in 2000 and 2001, and live steam versions in 2003 and 2006.

However as the saying goes "nothing ventured nothing gained" or perhaps more appropriate "a fool and his money......", with several watchers and nearly a month to go I didn't bother with the make an offer option but bought at the Buy it Now price. Against better judgement I arranged for it to be delivered, but fortunately it was well packed and appeared to have suffered no damage in transit. The only items that appear to be missing are one of the tender re-railing ramps and the air hoses at each end. The loco and tender needed partly dismantling and two thorough washes to remove all the muck. The cab roof had traces of green oxidation as well as a small damaged area of paintwork so it was completely stripped down to bare metal and repainted with black self etch primer and satin black. The cab had to be removed to clean the muck off the firebox and backhead, so that made the roof painting a lot easier, these locos are very heavy and awkward to handle complete. Elsewhere there were traces of green oxidation on and around some of the fixing screws. These are hex headed 1.6mm or 2mm dia. brass which are chemically blackened rather than painted. So they could be removed, cleaned up, any residue on the paintwork around the screw cleaned off and the screws replaced and painted. Otherwise any other paintwork required was just touching up small areas. The number decals on the left hand cab side have partly flaked off, so replacement decals have been ordered. The wheels show no sign of wear, so it seems to have had little use or maybe only test run as the Ebay description. I've got no live rail 45mm track, but lifted off its drivers and run on 12 volts its smooth running and very quiet.

One potential problem with these models is the front pilot beam. The loco is very heavy and the only way of lifting at the front end without some special kind of lifting device is by placing your hand under the pilot. This can tend to bend the front of the sheet metal pilot beam and break the joint between the front and the top. There were signs that this joint was starting to split, so its been re-soldered at the rear and short lengths of angle added at the rear to reinforce the joint. The black paint Accucraft use will stand soldering with a blowtorch without any ill effects, you just have to watch other items don't drop off in the process. A similar loco for sale on US Ebay recently had suffered the same problem and the item description stated "The pilot attachment has been repaired, and while still attached could use a bit of attention to fully correct". The bit of attention was rather an understatement as despite the botched attempt at repair the pilot beam had come apart completely.

The sound system is by Sierra, an early Soundtraxx system I believe, and it was entirely self contained in the tender. The only electrical connection between the tender and loco being via the drawbar for live rail operation. The sound system was fed by a battery and also sprung plunger pickups on the tender wheels, chuff synchronisation being by two small magnets on the back of a tender wheel. I did start to figure out what wire went where and exactly how it worked, but in the event just ripped the lot out including the massive speaker, as the tender had to be completely dismantled to get rid of all the muck. Eventually the loco will be converted to RC/battery dead rail operation using the same sound system in the C16 I described earlier in this thread. I might retain the chuff synchronisation on the tender wheel if it works, although it won't be exact as the tender wheels are not exactly half the size of the drivers, 26" prototype tender against 40" of the driving wheels.

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So overall the conclusion is

 

[simond]

Do, Please clarify

what is a mud hen?

excuse the ignorance!
Simon

 

[BrushType4]

Tim @Mudhen is your man.

 

[PhilH]

Do, Please clarify
what is a mud hen?
excuse the ignorance!
Simon

See: Mudhen - Wikipedia

In this case its fourth in the list.