Banavie Road - Caledonian in S Scale

[28ten]

I agree with the practicality of a laminate surface for cleaning, but I do prefer carpet underfoot. I've come to a sort of compromise in the back bedroom where the layout is and I've laid carpet tiles with a shallow pile, which clean up quite easily.

Jim.

I have ceramic tiles, which is easy to find bits on, the downside is that it is very unforgiving to anything dropped on it, I had cork tiles in another workshop, but I would never have carpet

 

[Steve Cook]

Yes, I stick the Templot sheets together with Selotape then stick the sheets to the Contiboard with Selotape. I stick the ply sleepers to the plan with very small dabs of PVA so that they could be removed from the sheets if necessary. But I leave the track plan stuck to the sleepers and stick the lot down to the trackbed and cover the plan with ballast.

Thanks for the reply Jim, much clearer now

I have stained my sleepers with Tudor Dark Oak stain in situ so the stain will help to make the paper plan a bit more "invisible". Though I might try your sleeper weathering methods instead.

If you do, I'd be interested to see how you get on as the track is already built - I wonder if you may get a little pooling of the stain around the chairs, could be made to work nicely

 

[JimG]

Just a quick message to report that nothing has been done in S scale until I get this d****d 7mm scale goods shed finished. The deadline is in November when the layout goes to its first exhibition. The realisation that this is barely four months off has adjusted my priorities somewhat.

Here's a pic of the work so far, with the superstructure perched a bit untidily on its brick supports.



The roof is finished to the sarking level and awaits its lead flashing and slates. I've also started on the two cranes for the interior with the basic wood structures lying on the shed floor - based on the cranes in the old Stranraer goods shed. The next job is to scratch all the crane hardware.

But the main job is going to be painting the shed. I think the exterior should be painted but I am not sure what colours. The layout is supposed to be situated somewhere on the southern end of the eastern region in the 1970s, so any suggestions as to what colours would be apt would be welcome. I'm also not sure what to do with the interior. I don't think it would have been painted, but would it have been stained/preserved, or left as untreated timber. Maybe I should just wrap it up in a blanket and leave it on Steve Cook's doorstep.

Jim.

 

[28ten]

You really need to stain the timber, unfortunately its easier to do so before assembly. If i remember ill bring some bits to Camrail

 

[JimG]

You really need to stain the timber, unfortunately its easier to do so before assembly. If i remember ill bring some bits to Camrail

Cynric,

I'll look forward to that. Painting and finishing is not my strong suit.

Jim.

 

[JimG]

There has been some sort of development on the layout. My brother is coming to stay this weekend so the bedroom has to revert to its primary purpose. I could let him sleep under the layout but I suspect that he might forget when he wakes up.

I've also installed my storage device, which I got a year or so ago but haven't had the prompting to fit it - a small power winch. The winch is installed in the loft and is used to get the boards up and down. This is one of the "fattest" boards which just gets through the hatch on the diagonal with an inch or two to spare.





All the boards are up in the loft after a mild fight with one or two of them on my own. I will have to adjust the position of the pulley round which the wire travels to make life a bit easier with the longer boards.

Another thing I've worked out is why I haven't done all that much to the layout since the start of the year. I had thought that getting all the boards up and fitted together would help to get work progressing on the layout but it hasn't happened that way. At first I thought I must be losing my mojo, but it just dawned on me that working on the baseboards in place is actually quite difficult and a pretty effective disincentive to do anything. The four foot layout height means that I have to use small steps to get above the boards to do any work and this, coupled with no access from the outside of the layout, makes tracklaying quite difficult. So the next work on the boards will be with them on their own or in pairs and I will re-visit some of the existing baseboard rail end joins to get them better than they are at the moment.

Jim.

 

[lancer1027]

Nice idea Jim, a winch very clever

 

[JimG]

Nice idea Jim, a winch very clever

Well, I used the winch again and got a couple of the boards down to start work on the layout again - at last. All the other tasks and deadlines I was mixed up in have passed and I can now looking at doing my own S scale modelling again.

Following on from my last message I've decided to work on the boards singly or in pairs, and downstairs in the kitchen where I can work reasonably well and the floor cleans up quickly.

I decided to start on the board with the double junction on it - that's the double junction that's in full view - the other being in the hidden sidings. A quick look at the trackwork reminded me that I still had a lot to do on it. The radii through the diamond are very tight for S scale - around 42" radius - with maximum gauge widening through them, so getting the crossing to work has been a real fiddle and the present diamond is the second attempt. I remember deciding that the best way to proceed was to be able to test the diamond by running locos and stock through it under their own power and that was the reason for originally setting the boards up in situ and trying to get all the track down and get something running. I will still do the testing with locos and stock, but with one or two boards hooked together and shuffling them back and forth.

Here's the picture of the board in question in the kitchen



The interlaced sleepering through the diamond was copied from a Caledonian drawing and the wide pitch of some of the sleepers is as in that drawing.

The first thing to do was wire up the board so that I can run a loco. The layout will be DCC controlled but will have a fall-back provision for DC working in case there are any problems. I intend to split the layout into four power districts - the inner and outer main lines, the goods yard and the hidden sidings. The fall back DC working will be using the power districts as sections to give a very basic cab control with four sections.

I started putting droppers in from all the running rails, using 1.5mm cable stripped from the coil of twin and earth on the board. The dropper is soldered to the underside of the rail and will be almost invisible when everything is ballasted.

Underneath I'm using 2.5mm cable as the power busses - again stripped from 2.5mm twin and earth. My wiring is a bit experimental since I'm aware of warnings of possible interference between feeds in DCC circuitry so I'm trying to keep things as widely spaced as I can.



There are the two bus pairs here for the inner and the outer circuits. The ends in the bottom right corner will go to a tag board from which will go links to the socket for the interconnecting cables. The joints between droppers and bus wires are pretty basic but strong - one wrap round of the 1.5mm wire and soldered. However they can be unsoldered and split quite easily if necessary.



The bus wires are cable tied to the baseboard framework to cut down movement.

The next job will be to wire up the crossings and the obtuse crossings of the diamond so that I can jury rig power feeds to allow a loco to work the crossing.

The intention is to use MERG CANBUS units to control the pointwork and signals on the layout, with the pointwork and signals being worked by small servos. One MERG unit will control the two turnouts and one signal on this board as well as the relays to switch the feeds to the crossings.

Jim.

 

[ScottW]

Hi Jim,

Glad to see you are back in the world of S-Scale, I'll look forward to seeing Banavie Road progress.

As a side note, work has finally begun on the 439 class, I have begun making the patterns for the bogie and turning the drivers. Once I have made sufficient progress I'll put a post on my workbench thread.

Keep up the good work.

Scott

 

[JimG]

Hi Jim,

Glad to see you are back in the world of S-Scale, I'll look forward to seeing Banavie Road progress.

I've come to a slight grinding halt this morning when I find I've run out of chairs to lay the coach siding which has yet to be laid and wired on that board, and various bits that I find I need, like solder tag blocks for the wiring. But I can still get on with doing the switch blades for the turnouts and the check rails in the diamond. I can also work on a design of a combined servo holder and sub trackbed tiebar assembly. This board will really be the beta test site for a few ideas which will be implemented on the other boards if they seem to work.

As a side note, work has finally begun on the 439 class, I have begun making the patterns for the bogie and turning the drivers. Once I have made sufficient progress I'll put a post on my workbench thread.

Keep up the good work.

I might just get the layout in a running condition before you get your 439 class finished. And I've got to get started on locomotives as well. Whether I'll proceed with the 670 class at the moment, with its difficult footplate, or go for a more straightforward prototype is the question.

Jim.

 

[ScottW]

I might just get the layout in a running condition before you get your 439 class finished.

Ha ha, I'm sure you will have almost complete it before then.

Scott

 

[SteveO]

Any progress on this layout?

I was looking through the small plans booklet from G0G last night and was reminded of this layout from the roundy Henton Bridge.

 

[JimG]

Any progress on this layout?

I was looking through the small plans booklet from G0G last night and was reminded of this layout from the roundy Henton Bridge.

Steve,

Nothing much to show in pictures, but I got the fettling of the diamond crossing completed and I was running an 0-6-0 tank through it last Sunday with good results - especially when I found that the rear drivers on the loco were about 8thou tight on the B-to-B. The loco hasn't been used for about twenty years and I'm not sure how the B-to-B has altered - the other two axles are spot on. It will mean a strip down to adjust the wheels, but the reduced B-to-B actually got through the crossings with only a slight hesitation/bump. The problem with the diamond is that the radii are very tight for S scale and maximum gauge widening is being used and the fiddle is deciding how the check rails are positioned through the diamond.

I've also decided to re-visit the method I use at baseboard joins to get a better looking end product and I stripped out the existing arrangement (rail ends soldered to brass screws) in preparation for a bit of experimenting. I've got a fair idea of what I want to do but I'm aiming to dig around on some of the trade stands at the Bristol 0 Gauge do and at our own exhibition at Yate a week later to get some bits and pieces for the job.

Meanwhile, the milling machine is on the go again, churning out some Caledonian 48ft compartment stock. I got the drawings from the NRM at the weekend and I have spent the last three days doing all the drawing and programming work to generate the CAM files for milling. I've just run the first test to check that the bolection cutting is OK and I should be cutting full sides by the weekend.

Jim.

 

[SteveO]

Cheers Jim. I'm looking forward to seeing this being built up.

 

[Steph Dale]

Underneath I'm using 2.5mm cable as the power busses - again stripped from 2.5mm twin and earth. My wiring is a bit experimental since I'm aware of warnings of possible interference between feeds in DCC circuitry so I'm trying to keep things as widely spaced as I can.

There are the two bus pairs here for the inner and the outer circuits. The ends in the bottom right corner will go to a tag board from which will go links to the socket for the interconnecting cables. The joints between droppers and bus wires are pretty basic but strong - one wrap round of the 1.5mm wire and soldered. However they can be unsoldered and split quite easily if necessary.

Jim,

I wish I'd noticed this post before...

There certainly can be interference between feeds, but it's not as prevalent a problem as some would have you believe. Using decent section cable (as you have done) will do much to stop the problem of interference occurring.

However - most interference isn't actually going to come from within the system; it's going to come from other systems operating at similar frequencies or at much higher powers. In fact what you've done by attempting to isolate the system from itself is actually create an antenna - making it easier for your DCC system to pick up noise.

If you're up to doing it I'd suggest running each feed as a 'twisted pair' which will work well to reject noise. I've been involved in some large and complex layouts which are DCC powered. Using large core conductors (usually 6A) and twisted pairs for each of the feeds we've had no problems.

If you happen to be living right next to Fylingdales (or a mobile phone mast) and need to actively get rid of external noise you can actually weave your feeds - the third weave being an earthed cable. Ferrite rings on the mains cables are worth a try too.

Steph

 

[Dog Star]

For what it is worth... ensure that the electrical equipment at either end of a digital signalling connection is at the same ground potential (which is not necessarily the same thing as earth potential). Steph's mention of ferrite clamp locks reminded me of a Short Message System installation which I was invited to inspect as part of an investigation into corrupt signalling between computers. Now as the system was part of a telephony installation the powers that be had provided a false floor with all cable runs under the floor. My investigations found nothing untoward above the floor... however lifting a floor slab and hanging over the abyss revealed the cause of the service disruptions. Usual British symptom... usual British excuse... cables hanging loose and not connected, not reported.

What had happended was that the company's riggers had installed plenty of earth circuits... and the computer installation team had plugged in the power supplies correctly... and no one had reported that there was no ground potential bus-bars for connection to the signal circuit drivers. For those with a techi-nouse, a SCSI connection between servers with a floating ground generates spikes even with ferrite clamp locks, hence spurious signals on a digital signalling circuit.

Happy days!

 

[Steph Dale]

For what it is worth... ensure that the electrical equipment at either end of a digital signalling connection is at the same ground potential (which is not necessarily the same thing as earth potential). Steph's mention of ferrite clamp locks reminded me of a Short Message System installation which I was invited to inspect as part of an investigation into corrupt signalling between computers. Now as the system was part of a telephony installation the powers that be had provided a false floor with all cable runs under the floor. My investigations found nothing untoward above the floor... however lifting a floor slab and hanging over the abyss revealed the cause of the service disruptions. Usual British symptom... usual British excuse... cables hanging loose and not connected, not reported.

What had happended was that the company's riggers had installed plenty of earth circuits... and the computer installation team had plugged in the power supplies correctly... and no one had reported that there was no ground potential bus-bars for connection to the signal circuit drivers. For those with a techi-nouse, a SCSI connection between servers with a floating ground generates spikes even with ferrite clamp locks, hence spurious signals on a digital signalling circuit.

Happy days!

Graham,

Hehe - yeah did something similar myself when involved with commissioning new CNC machines once; under test drove the head of a £*00,000 mill straight through the table, wrecking most of the drive to the head as well as the table. After due b*ollocking the problem was found to be pretty much what you describe; third party contractors had wired the earths in the control room and the machine room to different earth points. The control room overlooked the machine room and so was at a much different earth potential; the machine effectively had power before receiving command and when the command came it was 'hard over'. As it happens I think the wiring problem was due to a lack of awareness rather than a lack of diligence on behalf of the contractors and we all lived to fight another day...

Funny; I'd entirely forgotten about that little adventure early in my employment history until I read your story...!

Steph

 

[Dog Star]

Funny; I'd entirely forgotten about that little adventure early in my employment history until I read your story...!

Love it Steph. Funny how our experiences have so much in common, worked in the same arena, even for the same company and yet never met. Same as with Adrian up't north. BTW - does BAe still have inspectors marks which go back to the time of the Dick Kerr Tramways in Preston? (Adrian's ears prick up...)

regards,Graham

 

[Colin M]

Jim,

Not sure how I've missed this thread... it's super stuff. I will be watching this layout progress in the future with great interest. The good shed is awesome!

I too have the dilema of needing to store boards in my loft, although my situation is somewhat easier as I have uniform and rectangular board dimensions. Do you have trouble with the boards swinging when they are suspended? This may be troublesome once you have buildings/signals etc.? I have devised a plan to use two angled runners made from covered chipboard that can sit astride my loft ladder to slide the boards up and down.

I would be very interested to hear more about your power winch arrangement. I was planning on using a small block and tackle, but a powered solution is a much better idea!

The one issue I am still pondering, is can the storage job be done singled manned? i.e. When I am in the loft to haul the boards up, how will I get the boards below into place? Do you have an assistant or can you manage it on your own?

Colin

 

[john lewsey]

Yes. This layout looks very nice the curve is a great feature and looks great